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Author Topic: Did pirate hurt the bitcoin economy?  (Read 2721 times)
gweedo
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September 10, 2012, 03:50:38 PM
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This is just a personal view, but I noticed like maybe 5 months there were a lot of jobs and things that can be done for bitcoins now I notice there are hardly any. I feel like this will hurt new people coming into the community. 

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September 10, 2012, 04:13:22 PM
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This is just a personal view, but I noticed like maybe 5 months there were a lot of jobs and things that can be done for bitcoins now I notice there are hardly any. I feel like this will hurt new people coming into the community. 

Yes.  Despite that I think his involvement had something to do with the price going up over the past several months, I think the project and community as a whole are worse off from his involvement in at least the sense that his shenanigans adds to an unfortunate and growing list of scams and hacks that lots of people who might otherwise investigate bitcoin will negatively associate with it and either delay taking it seriously or write it off altogether.
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September 10, 2012, 04:49:16 PM
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This is just a personal view, but I noticed like maybe 5 months there were a lot of jobs and things that can be done for bitcoins now I notice there are hardly any. I feel like this will hurt new people coming into the community. 

Yes.  Despite that I think his involvement had something to do with the price going up over the past several months, I think the project and community as a whole are worse off from his involvement in at least the sense that his shenanigans adds to an unfortunate and growing list of scams and hacks that lots of people who might otherwise investigate bitcoin will negatively associate with it and either delay taking it seriously or write it off altogether.

Yupp, that's why  I think we need some 'policing' on this forum. Players like Pirateat40 should not be allowed to promote their business. Perhaps there should be some 'board of directors' or whatever, based on votes from the forum members, and then these could look into and give advice as to whether some business should be allowed to operate on these forums or not. If a business seems shady, there should be hard questions, and if they can't be answered, such businesses should not be allowed to advertise their services.

I know a lot of people are against policying, but I think most communities does need a minimum amount of policying, otherwise it's anarchy and that's not beneficial.
bitlane
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September 10, 2012, 05:02:45 PM
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I hate to admit it, but I think he has strengthened the BTC Economy by forcing Buyers/Investors to be more conscious when wielding their spare BTC in the market, looking for a place to put them.
Unfortunately, at this point, no one trusts anyone, but it will get better once the 'shell-shock' wears off a bit and people begin to dip their toes back 'into the pool'....

Alot of us were caught off guard, didn't care, or were just overwhelmed and blinded by greed to see this last scam take place (or admit it during), as we all gave up money willingly.

I feel that the trees have been shaken enough for the dead and rotten shit to fall out of, or off the branches, leaving only healthy growth potential for the future.

'The Human Condition'....Trial and Error....lol

Herodes
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September 10, 2012, 05:11:57 PM
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The policing needs to be done by the individuals who think handing their bitcoins to just about anyone on the internet is a good idea.

I agree with you that in general the individual is 100% responsible for everything that he or she does.

Oh yeah, who is going to pay for the policing? You?

I could contribute some time to do some research or give some advise on a bitcoin business, yes. As you see, many communities on the internet rely on free contributors. If you look at bitcoin.org, I don't think the core devs are paid much, if anything at all, so they're obviously there for other than monetary reasons. Some people do contribute in a community without expecting or demanding a monetary return.

People trading off their personal responsibility to others for a fee is what leads to this kind of behavior in the first place. They no longer know how to protect themselves.

Isolated speaking I do agree with you. But the reason I think we would need some sort of policing on this forum is to avoid bad press. Personally I've already had trouble businesswise and privately dealing with bitcoins, because of some of the huge scams that's been going on in the community.

I'm all for personal freedom and personal responsibility, and I think bitcoin is a good vehicle for this, but don't underestimate the power of the established governing systems.

It's better to 'work in the shadows' and create a great system, and then have some big players enter this community offering great services, imagine if only one really big company entered, then others would follow, and once enough big companies are involved with bitcoin businesses, it would be so much harder to shut down.

For now, we have this Rommney extortion case, we have the Bitconica case, and countless others. So many times when I mention Bitcoin I get the response: "Oh, isn't it the tax evading currency, the currency where you can buy hit men anonymously online, the currency where you can steal a lot of money?" And so on. I'm kind of tired of it.

People in general are sheep, and therefore they need policing, society would hardly function otherwise. However, the problem is always that the policymakers can become corrupt or no longer work for the best of the community, which is something that's happened in many countries.

So I think we should lay low, and try to avoid all the negative press, so we don't get known as the 'drug currency' or any such thing.

In my opinion, Anarchy is exactly what we need. People need to wake up and stop relying on third parties to provide them with their morality and responsibility.

So, in a real community, there should be no police ? If someone came to your house and robbed you, there should be no legal process for the thief? He should not be put in jail in x years? He should merely be shot ?

What about grocery stores ? If there was no legal system, there would be no consequences for someone that stole something in that store. Perhaps we would have private security companies torturing the thief in a sound isolated room, then kicking him out on the street naked ?

There would be no investigation when a female was raped, only the rich would have money for private investigators that could do DNA-sampling and so on.

I think we want freedom, but not true anarchy.
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September 10, 2012, 05:13:39 PM
 #6

Can the future bitcoiners learn from the mistakes of others? Maybe if we can help educate them.

I think this is a valid point.
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September 10, 2012, 06:01:42 PM
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Nice post. I don't really have any response to the first part other than I agree with much of it. Maybe the word police is what threw me off from the start (to be fair you did put it in quotes). It's more like a "Bitcoin Awareness Group".
Bitcoin Awareness Group was a good name. Sounds a bit lighter than 'police'. Smiley Democratic processes are sound and fine, but in the case of Bitcoin, I would rather trust the judgement of 5 scholars or core devs than the mob on this forum when it comes to the trustworthiness of this forum.

Heck, a Bitcoin Awareness Group could even be a good idea for a website.

In general though, it's up to the individual to secure his own assets. But I dislike the heap of bad press bitcoin has received lately.


As far as the last bit, we should probably not get involved in a debate about Anarchy, but as someone who has gone to great lengths to protect myself, my family, and my property, yes I would prefer true Anarchy, as that is the only way I feel true freedom for everyone can exist. Perhaps the world is not ready for it though.

Agree, it could be lenghty. So let's skip it! Smiley

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September 10, 2012, 06:09:44 PM
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Moving your responsibility on shoulders of some wise men appointed to take the blame is not a good solution. Responsiblity is part of freedom. If you truly want freedom, you must take it with all consequences. I think American and European history proves me right.

drmoo
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September 10, 2012, 07:08:00 PM
 #9

I don't blame Pirate, I blame the Exchanges. 
The constant hacks, and outrageous fee hikes (This means you CAVirtex!) have done way more damage to the Bitcoin economy.

I'm not a speculator, I'm an avid user of Bitcoin for trade. Unfortunately I no longer have a way of acquiring coins without paying credit card style fees. 
There is no longer any incentive to buy stuff with Bitcoin, only investments in ponzi schemes like BTCST.
Atlas
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September 10, 2012, 07:11:24 PM
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I will argue it made the economy stronger. Bad business failed leaving money for good business and lessons were learned.

And there's no such thing as bad publicity.
gweedo
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September 10, 2012, 07:41:37 PM
 #11

I know it makes the economy stronger, in that lessons were learned and fear is heighten, but what about liquidity of bitcoins? Isn't that suffering, a currency already being hoarded will only be hoarded more now.

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September 10, 2012, 07:55:29 PM
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I know it makes the economy stronger, in that lessons were learned and fear is heighten, but what about liquidity of bitcoins? Isn't that suffering, a currency already being hoarded will only be hoarded more now.
So people should value Bitcoin so very little that they'll happily spend it as soon as possible?
gweedo
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September 10, 2012, 08:05:42 PM
 #13

I know it makes the economy stronger, in that lessons were learned and fear is heighten, but what about liquidity of bitcoins? Isn't that suffering, a currency already being hoarded will only be hoarded more now.
So people should value Bitcoin so very little that they'll happily spend it as soon as possible?

Not entirely true, when I talk about liquidity I am talking about people investing, using their coins wisely to help out start ups. Hiring developers, and other services that people give on the forums. I am not going to lie I have a nice stash on a paper wallet, that I will not be touching until I am ready to cash out for good. So I under hoarding of the coins, but I think between the fear and the coins he accepted, there is no liquidity around the forum.

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September 11, 2012, 04:11:41 PM
 #14

Unfortunately, at this point, no one trusts anyone,

Madness. I don't come around here much anymore, just started reading a few threads yesterday and today, all I can say is the shit has hit the fan here at bitcointalk.org.

Come back to view, come to find out like 10-20 ppl been labeled scammer. Insanity here at bitcointalk.

I think I will probably buy hardware brand new coming months. screw the risk from what I've been seeing and reading.

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September 11, 2012, 04:15:05 PM
 #15

Nah, pirate only removed from bitcoin tons of greedy fools who "hurr durr 7% week"

Actually he helped us.
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September 11, 2012, 04:15:25 PM
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Unfortunately I no longer have a way of acquiring coins without paying credit card style fees.  

Untrue. Talk to Tangible Cryptography:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87094.0
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September 11, 2012, 04:15:42 PM
 #17

His ponzi hurt the economy more while it was still running than anything since. His 7% a week outclassed anything legitimate people could do and caused them to be ignored by investors.

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September 11, 2012, 04:26:39 PM
 #18

I hate to admit it, but I think he has strengthened the BTC Economy by forcing Buyers/Investors to be more conscious when wielding their spare BTC in the market, looking for a place to put them.
Unfortunately, at this point, no one trusts anyone, but it will get better once the 'shell-shock' wears off a bit and people begin to dip their toes back 'into the pool'....

Alot of us were caught off guard, didn't care, or were just overwhelmed and blinded by greed to see this last scam take place (or admit it during), as we all gave up money willingly.

I feel that the trees have been shaken enough for the dead and rotten shit to fall out of, or off the branches, leaving only healthy growth potential for the future.

'The Human Condition'....Trial and Error....lol

Agreed.  With each and every scam I am more and more cautious about how I store my BTC and who I am willing to 'trust' them with.  The original MtGox hack was the event that caused me to start backing up my wallet.  The community is getting smarter and stronger due to these scams.
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September 11, 2012, 10:59:26 PM
 #19

Unfortunately I no longer have a way of acquiring coins without paying credit card style fees.  

Untrue. Talk to Tangible Cryptography:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87094.0

Last I checked, Bitcoin isn't just a 'Murican currency.
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September 11, 2012, 11:00:49 PM
 #20

Last I checked, Bitcoin isn't just a 'Murican currency.

I was unaware that you weren't a Murrican. My bad.
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