Which Card Has The Fastest ROI?

[tacotime]

so is it a good or bad idea to buy a 7970 now?

i don't want to use it for gaming only mining..

If its mining only, then it is a bad idea. Full stop.

I just bought a bunch of 7950s to mine.  As soon as the difficulty goes high enough they will be switched from BTC to LTC.  I'm not worried.

[optimator]

I just bought a bunch of 7950s to mine.  As soon as the difficulty goes high enough they will be switched from BTC to LTC.  I'm not worried.

this. And no one knows a) what the halving will do to price; and b) when ASIC will come on the scene.

If the great halving makes price = price * .5 AND asic enter in January.... Well, the answer to your question is summarized here:

you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya...

[muyuu]

LTC <-> BTC market is very illiquid.

It really doesn't look like the right moment to get a 7970 exclusively for mining right now, unless you can get it for very cheap.

[meebs]

Will you get your money back JUST from mining.. NOPE

Will you get your money back from mining AND from selling the card again in a few months for almost what you paid for it with a few extra dollars on the side.. probably..

[420]

did Satoshi Nakomoto predict companies customizing hardware that will outhash the average person's GPU and thus turn the people holding bitcoin into large capital surplused institutions?

[Lethos]

did Satoshi Nakomoto predict companies customizing hardware that will outhash the average person's GPU and thus turn the people holding bitcoin into large capital surplused institutions?

He'd be pretty naive if he didn't foresee a future where people would strive for better performance and faster hash rates, or at the least improvements in efficiency.
After all FPGA's and ASIC have been used for exactly that in many other similar industries since they were first designed, to do relatively simple tasks ridiculously fast, that were once done by CPU's, sometimes even entire server farms of computers.
I doubt anyone expected it to happen this fast of course, from it's early days around when he disappeared.

[tacotime]

LTC <-> BTC market is very illiquid.

It has enough liquidity for someone only mining a couple hundred LTC a day... large scale operations will probably find it hard not to disrupt the market price.

[muyuu]

LTC <-> BTC market is very illiquid.

It has enough liquidity for someone only mining a couple hundred LTC a day... large scale operations will probably find it hard not to disrupt the market price.

If halving+ASIC causes GPUs to be infeasible for BTC, this market can be brought to its knees easily. If you have a "solution", you may just coincide with many others.

My GPUs will likely stop mining BTC, so maybe we will meet there or maybe not.

[Desolator]

Every single GPU right now has a ROI time period that does not calculate, as it will never reach the baseline.  ASIC and splitting compared to electricity means it's just not going to happen, as the power will cost more than you make approx 2-3 months from now But if you got a used 5830, it would come the closest at like 15% paid off before it start losing you money.

[jojo69]

I just bought a bunch of 7950s to mine.  As soon as the difficulty goes high enough they will be switched from BTC to LTC.  I'm not worried.

you and 10,000 other motherfuckers, what do you think is going to happen to litecoin difficulty?   

[philips]

you and 10,000 other motherfuckers, what do you think is going to happen to litecoin difficulty?  

I am more interested in what will happen to LTC price...any predictions ?

(just bought an additionally 7970)

[muyuu]

you and 10,000 other motherfuckers, what do you think is going to happen to litecoin difficulty?  

I am more interested in what will happen to LTC price...any predictions ?

(just bought an additionally 7970)

What do you expect? 10K odd GPU mofos selling every LTC they mine for BTC. That's a downward pressure. If a number of them decide to hoard, that's an upward pressure. But as a general rule, short-term minded miners who would be expected to flock to LTC are likely to bring the price down. LTC are simply not traded almost anywhere and they don't offer any big advantages over BTC. Basically the core of LTC who just wanted a GPU free environment will see that goal definitively destroyed.

GPU have very little future as mining equipment. The whole project would be pointless now with a GPU-dominated ecosystem and no single meaningful advantage over the coin that has all the traction - except for those with large quantities of LTC.

[philips]

you and 10,000 other motherfuckers, what do you think is going to happen to litecoin difficulty?  

I am more interested in what will happen to LTC price...any predictions ?

(just bought an additionally 7970)

What do you expect? 10K odd GPU mofos selling every LTC they mine for BTC. That's a downward pressure. If a number of them decide to hoard, that's an upward pressure. But as a general rule, short-term minded miners who would be expected to flock to LTC are likely to bring the price down. LTC are simply not traded almost anywhere and they don't offer any big advantages over BTC. Basically the core of LTC who just wanted a GPU free environment will see that goal definitively destroyed.

GPU have very little future as mining equipment. The whole project would be pointless now with a GPU-dominated ecosystem and no single meaningful advantage over the coin that has all the traction - except for those with large quantities of LTC.

Ah come on man, let me enjoy my new card, don't be a killjoy  
Besides, I got it rather cheap (around 150$) and I mine at CoinLab, I could still get my money back...(well, maybe).
It has a great resale value also.

[tacotime]

LTC has been around for almost a year. It's not dead and it's probably not going to die. Like BTC, the algorithm is self adjusting so that it remains profitable to mine.  The naysayers are welcome to sit around in a circlejerk waiting to profit from nonexisting ASICs they bought six months ago while I continually make money with a GPU farm.

[crazyates]

you and 10,000 other motherfuckers, what do you think is going to happen to litecoin difficulty?  

I am more interested in what will happen to LTC price...any predictions ?

(just bought an additionally 7970)

What do you expect? 10K odd GPU mofos selling every LTC they mine for BTC. That's a downward pressure. If a number of them decide to hoard, that's an upward pressure. But as a general rule, short-term minded miners who would be expected to flock to LTC are likely to bring the price down. LTC are simply not traded almost anywhere and they don't offer any big advantages over BTC. Basically the core of LTC who just wanted a GPU free environment will see that goal definitively destroyed.

GPU have very little future as mining equipment. The whole project would be pointless now with a GPU-dominated ecosystem and no single meaningful advantage over the coin that has all the traction - except for those with large quantities of LTC.

Ah come on man, let me enjoy my new card, don't be a killjoy  
Besides, I got it rather cheap (around 150$) and I mine at CoinLab, I could still get my money back...(well, maybe).
It has a great resale value also.

Screw LTC, I'm more concerned about where you got a 7970 for $150!!

[philips]

Pure, sheer luck

The guy (someone I knew) sold it because of the broken (kinda stuck) fan and lots of BSOD. Oh, should I mention the cracked shroud?
Anyway, it still seemed OK to me after some tests and bought it eventually at 150. Bought also a replacement fan from Ebay only to discover that the original fan was OK but a stupid piece of black foam was blocking it from inside (have no idea how it got there).

Luck, as I said 

[Shadow383]

isn't there a way to make at least 1.5 BTC per day with a 7970

Nope. My 7970 runs at 1080MHz, and I get 695Mh/s.

Care to share your flags etc?

[jojo69]

Screw LTC, I'm more concerned about where you got a 7970 for $150!!

+7970

[crazyates]

isn't there a way to make at least 1.5 BTC per day with a 7970

Nope. My 7970 runs at 1080MHz, and I get 695Mh/s.

Care to share your flags etc?

Win7x64, CCC 12.8 with included SDK. CGMiner 2.7.5 with all defaults, which is -k poclbm -v 1 -w 64.

I'v since undervolted and downclocked to 1050, and I'm getting ~ 610MH/s @ ~170W.

[rocks]

did Satoshi Nakomoto predict companies customizing hardware that will outhash the average person's GPU and thus turn the people holding bitcoin into large capital surplused institutions?

He'd be pretty naive if he didn't foresee a future where people would strive for better performance and faster hash rates, or at the least improvements in efficiency.
After all FPGA's and ASIC have been used for exactly that in many other similar industries since they were first designed, to do relatively simple tasks ridiculously fast, that were once done by CPU's, sometimes even entire server farms of computers.
I doubt anyone expected it to happen this fast of course, from it's early days around when he disappeared.

From what I've read of Satoshi's original posts, no a shift to high capital cost & customized equipment was not expected nearly this fast or even at all. Maybe after a decade or so when the payout per block become < 6BTC, but not yet.

The goal was for widely distributed hashing and BTC generation, both to ensure stability of the network and to disperse BTC widely in order to encourage adoption. The number of people dropping $40K plus figures for Avalon's or SC Rigs is counter these goals.

IMHO if Satoshi predicted this, he would have made the hashing algorithm more complicated in order to require a CPU (i.e. limited benefit from GPU, FPGA or ASIC).

All that said I don't believe the rise of ASICs and centralized mining (at least for now) is necessarily a negative event, in fact I think it demonstrates just how strong the crypto currency is and how rapidly it is gaining traction.

For all the MINERS selling $+10K worth of BTC for equipment, there are USERS buying BTC for other market purposes. This is capitalism.

And unlike others, I think ASICs will strengthen the network. The reason is the ASICs have no other purpose, once an ASIC is fabed the only useful thing it can do is add hashing power to the network. This ensures a stable base of hashing power. Compare this to GPU mining when the 2011 crash happened, the network started to weaken because people sold their GPUs to gamers. Even if people sell their ASICs, the only thing a buyer can do is hash with it, this is positive for the bitcoin project.

IMHO the goal of the network is to become strengthened against government disruption, if 100,000 ASICs are sold that would do a lot towards getting there.