Thoughts on Taxation

[bryant.coleman]

In the end people just love taxes. That's all there is to it.
Without taxes, how would Hitler be able to fund his armies and gas chambers?

Hmm... when I first registered as a member on this forum, there were hardly anyone who was supporting taxation by the government. Times have changed. Now the thinking is like: "I am not ready to work. I'll live on government wlefare payments. So others should pay more and more taxes to the government, so that I'll get my welfare payments on time"

[Elwar]

In the end people just love taxes. That's all there is to it.
Without taxes, how would Hitler be able to fund his armies and gas chambers?

Hmm... when I first registered as a member on this forum, there were hardly anyone who was supporting taxation by the government. Times have changed. Now the thinking is like: "I am not ready to work. I'll live on government wlefare payments. So others should pay more and more taxes to the government, so that I'll get my welfare payments on time"

It's mostly the racists that can't personally do anything directly to harm minorities that love taxes the most, leaving it in the governments' hands. They look at their paycheck and think "well at least my taxes are going toward putting some black person in prison on drug charges" or "I hope this gets some muslim killed in some far off country" or "If this was the 1940s the amount taken out of this paycheck could have easily killed 2 or 3 jews"

[mayflor2]

A 1% tax applied to people and corporations equally (no loop holes) would bring in more revenue than the current system. I believe the people should not be taxed whatsoever and the revenue from taxing corporations alone would still surpass current levels.

Taxing is ok as long as the tax money is being put for correct use, but most of the time it is being used to fulfill the fantasies of corrupt politicians and business people who secretly control the government.

[freeyourmind]

A 1% tax applied to people and corporations equally (no loop holes) would bring in more revenue than the current system. I believe the people should not be taxed whatsoever and the revenue from taxing corporations alone would still surpass current levels.

The system that you're suggesting of 1% tax (I'm assuming on all sales) would generate significantly less tax than the current system.  It wouldn't even cover the current consumption tax.

There's sales/consumption tax as well as corporate income tax, personal income tax and municipal property tax. 

There's far too many ways for corporations and rich people to avoid paying taxes. If there were no loop holes, way more tax money would be collected. I heard the 1% figure somewhere, can't remember where. Don't get hung up on the actual figure though, the important point I'm trying to make is that corporations have far too many ways too avoid paying taxes (not to mention the subsidies they receive) and the poor (middle class) are left footing the bill. Of course it's always justified by using scare tactics, implying that these large corporations need tax breaks and subsidies otherwise they would up and leave.

There are ways to minimize paying taxes by minimizing income, as there is flexibility in choosing the way you report income.  But probably what you're looking for is to just have a higher corporate tax rate.  I think the loop holes that you're referring to are likely what expenses should a corporation have the ability to count against revenues.  Most publicly traded companies do not minimize taxes...they actually maximize profits through accounting, so that their shareholders are happy.

Subsidies are another problem for sure.  It's a double edged sword though.  Subsidies keep companies local and with higher taxes and regulation, as we've seen, a lot of corporations start outsourcing parts of their business to lower cost areas overseas, and higher local unemployment. 

[TinEye]

i think that there will be more tax evasion if bitcoin and especially something like monero will become a common thing in everyday use, government may ask ISP to control your connection(and maybe rising the money needed for internet?), it may follow your node or something, if the situation will go out of hand for them, i don't them doing much else, they cannot control every dekstop on the planet to find who is tax evading and who is not

[Possum577]

Another thought from me on taxation...

All tax laws have to be voted on and the People own the vote. If you don't want bitcoin to be taxed (or some other specific thing) start a movement to have the vote go your way. People are so jaded, and not without reason, that they refuse to believe that they can still make a difference. Act and you'll see results. Don't just give in, to do so is to agree with the other side's choice.

[bryant.coleman]

i think that there will be more tax evasion if bitcoin and especially something like monero will become a common thing in everyday use, government may ask ISP to control your connection(and maybe rising the money needed for internet?), it may follow your node or something, if the situation will go out of hand for them, i don't them doing much else, they cannot control every dekstop on the planet to find who is tax evading and who is not

Fiat cash is the best way to avoid small-scale tax evasion right now. And for large-scale tax evasion, there are much better methods available, and Bitcoin is not one of them. If you are interested in tax evasion, then you should contact the Goldman Sucks or the HSBC, and these guys will show you how to hide your wealth in tax heavens.

[Bit-Gods]

i think that there will be more tax evasion if bitcoin and especially something like monero will become a common thing in everyday use, government may ask ISP to control your connection(and maybe rising the money needed for internet?), it may follow your node or something, if the situation will go out of hand for them, i don't them doing much else, they cannot control every dekstop on the planet to find who is tax evading and who is not

Fiat cash is the best way to avoid small-scale tax evasion right now. And for large-scale tax evasion, there are much better methods available, and Bitcoin is not one of them. If you are interested in tax evasion, then you should contact the Goldman Sucks or the HSBC, and these guys will show you how to hide your wealth in tax heavens.

So this is what we get in then all this big corporations avoiding  tax and the average Joe paying the tax money because he cannot go anywhere but he gets the tax  money deducted from his salary, the average Joe is at disadvantage as he has very little means to evade tax, whereas these giant corporations shake hand with corrupt officials under  table and  evade tax

[jaysabi]

There's far too many ways for corporations and rich people to avoid paying taxes. If there were no loop holes, way more tax money would be collected. I heard the 1% figure somewhere, can't remember where. Don't get hung up on the actual figure though, the important point I'm trying to make is that corporations have far too many ways too avoid paying taxes (not to mention the subsidies they receive) and the poor (middle class) are left footing the bill. Of course it's always justified by using scare tactics, implying that these large corporations need tax breaks and subsidies otherwise they would up and leave.

The current corporate tax rates range from 0% to 90%. In most of the countries, it is around 10% to 40%. Tax evasion is severe, in countries where the tax rates are high, such as the United States and Japan. But still, I don't think that reducing the taxes from 40% to 1% is the solution. Even if it will bring back the taxes lost to tax evasion previously, the overall tax revenue will be minuscule.

When you say "tax evasion" do you mean illegal tax evasion, or legal tax avoidance through the loopholes of the tax code?

[evenlydistributingfuture]

I think everyone will just voluntarily give bitcoins to the government because of the love we all have for taxes and our great leaders.

Without taxes we would have no roads.

As Ben Franklin said during his emancipation proclamation speech: "Without taxes we will all be confined to our homes with no way to get anywhere, that is why we must have the 16th Amendment as part of our Constitution."

And he was right.

Most people love paying taxes, I'm not sure what you're talking about OP. You sound un-American and should have your door kicked in by our hero cops to drag you to tax prison.

What? I realize you're not really serious, but you're mixing three different centuries in one sentence. Franklin died in 1790, the Emancipation Proclamation was in 1863, and the Sixteenth Amendment came in 1913.

[BADecker]

Somebody thinks that people should do this and that. So he forces people to pay to get this and that done. This is taxation. It is a form of slavery, and in America it is a form of fraud.

If a person can't convince people to donate to a cause, be it supporting the government, or fighting a war in the Middle East, or paying for the roads, then the cause isn't worthy of being done.

The only way we have a worthy cause is when people are convinced to donate.

Taxation is slavery, no matter what the excuse.

[jaysabi]

I think everyone will just voluntarily give bitcoins to the government because of the love we all have for taxes and our great leaders.

Without taxes we would have no roads.

As Ben Franklin said during his emancipation proclamation speech: "Without taxes we will all be confined to our homes with no way to get anywhere, that is why we must have the 16th Amendment as part of our Constitution."

And he was right.

Most people love paying taxes, I'm not sure what you're talking about OP. You sound un-American and should have your door kicked in by our hero cops to drag you to tax prison.

What? I realize you're not really serious, but you're mixing three different centuries in one sentence. Franklin died in 1790, the Emancipation Proclamation was in 1863, and the Sixteenth Amendment came in 1913.

Welcome to satire. It is abundant on the internet.

[Marbit]

I have had thoughts about what will happen when cryptocurrency use has become more adopted by the public.  One main concern that I have about this subject is what governments will do to enforce taxation.  Although I don't enjoy paying taxes, I can see in some instances where taxation might be necessary (the building of roads, education, police forces to ensure public safety, etc.).  If a good number of people used cryptocurrencies, I would imagine that it could become more difficult for governments to ensure that people are reporting transactions that would result in taxation.  If it does become extremely difficult for governments to that these things are paid for, how do you think that the governments will respond?  I think that it would be silly and ineffective to try to outlaw cryptocurrencies.  Are there alternative methods of taxation that you think governments might use to obtain funds?  Again, I am not really for many of the wasteful programs that are supplied by governments today, but I still can see the need for governments to provide at least some minimal infrastructure and public order.  What are your thoughts on these issues?

The very nature of bitcoin is de-centralized, meaning not controlled by an organization or a group, but by the crowd.
So, the government taxing bitcoin doesn't make sense to me. Moreover, the fee or 'tax' is paid in the form of a miners fee, which happens to be the crowd and not a group monopolizing and controlling it's flow.

[BADecker]

Watch "The Tiny Dot."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b70TUbdfs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwiIMu76BFI


"The Tiny Dot Explained"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVEzdh4PMDI


"What is Power? - Game of Thrones + Tiny Dot by Larken Rose"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt8DMC8Xkc0

[bryant.coleman]

When you say "tax evasion" do you mean illegal tax evasion, or legal tax avoidance through the loopholes of the tax code?

I meant illegal tax evasion, by hiding the profits and other means. Legal tax avoidance through various loopholes can't be termed as tax evasion per se, as they are not doing anything illegal. It is the responsibility of the government and the tax authority to eradicate these loopholes. We can't blame the corporations for it.

[jaysabi]

When you say "tax evasion" do you mean illegal tax evasion, or legal tax avoidance through the loopholes of the tax code?

I meant illegal tax evasion, by hiding the profits and other means. Legal tax avoidance through various loopholes can't be termed as tax evasion per se, as they are not doing anything illegal. It is the responsibility of the government and the tax authority to eradicate these loopholes. We can't blame the corporations for it.

Right, I agree with you. Sometimes when you see people complaining about "tax evasion" they are complaining about legal tax avoidance. But I don't think it's the government's responsibility to eradicate loopholes; the government built them in the first place to placate some special interest. It is the responsibility of the citizens to hold their reps responsible for creating/not closing loopholes.

If it takes you longer than 5 minutes to calculate how much income tax you have to pay, the system is too complicated.

[freeyourmind]

When you say "tax evasion" do you mean illegal tax evasion, or legal tax avoidance through the loopholes of the tax code?

I meant illegal tax evasion, by hiding the profits and other means. Legal tax avoidance through various loopholes can't be termed as tax evasion per se, as they are not doing anything illegal. It is the responsibility of the government and the tax authority to eradicate these loopholes. We can't blame the corporations for it.

Right, I agree with you. Sometimes when you see people complaining about "tax evasion" they are complaining about legal tax avoidance. But I don't think it's the government's responsibility to eradicate loopholes; the government built them in the first place to placate some special interest. It is the responsibility of the citizens to hold their reps responsible for creating/not closing loopholes.

If it takes you longer than 5 minutes to calculate how much income tax you have to pay, the system is too complicated.

These special interest groups lobby and contribute to political campaigns, so it's part of the deal which obviously conflicts with policies that would benefit the greater population.  Until it gets to the point where a politician rises up without having to sell his/her soul to the contributors of their campaign, I wouldn't really expect any change unfortunately.

[jaysabi]

When you say "tax evasion" do you mean illegal tax evasion, or legal tax avoidance through the loopholes of the tax code?

I meant illegal tax evasion, by hiding the profits and other means. Legal tax avoidance through various loopholes can't be termed as tax evasion per se, as they are not doing anything illegal. It is the responsibility of the government and the tax authority to eradicate these loopholes. We can't blame the corporations for it.

Right, I agree with you. Sometimes when you see people complaining about "tax evasion" they are complaining about legal tax avoidance. But I don't think it's the government's responsibility to eradicate loopholes; the government built them in the first place to placate some special interest. It is the responsibility of the citizens to hold their reps responsible for creating/not closing loopholes.

If it takes you longer than 5 minutes to calculate how much income tax you have to pay, the system is too complicated.

These special interest groups lobby and contribute to political campaigns, so it's part of the deal which obviously conflicts with policies that would benefit the greater population.  Until it gets to the point where a politician rises up without having to sell his/her soul to the contributors of their campaign, I wouldn't really expect any change unfortunately.

Yeah, our system misaligns the interests of the nation with the interests of politicians. The politician's aim is to get reelected, so they enact policies to that end. Those policies are not always in the best interest of the nation, in fact, I'd say they're often not. How do we fix this? Ultimately, you have to take money out of politics, but doing this does infringe freedom. The question is where is the line when this is acceptable?

[Miracal]

In the end people just love taxes. That's all there is to it.
Without taxes, how would Hitler be able to fund his armies and gas chambers?

Hmm... when I first registered as a member on this forum, there were hardly anyone who was supporting taxation by the government. Times have changed. Now the thinking is like: "I am not ready to work. I'll live on government wlefare payments. So others should pay more and more taxes to the government, so that I'll get my welfare payments on time"

When did you first register? The thinking of increased taxes so a person gets more welfare is a really fucked up way to pursue the idea. A person has lost his self respect when he feels that he is not ready to work, and I am not talking about money. I am talking about the will to work. Why not work? Always work. Even if I am a billionaire, I will be working on something. A business idea, a home renovation, a plan to make a garden, a plan, a dream, something!

[freeyourmind]

When you say "tax evasion" do you mean illegal tax evasion, or legal tax avoidance through the loopholes of the tax code?

I meant illegal tax evasion, by hiding the profits and other means. Legal tax avoidance through various loopholes can't be termed as tax evasion per se, as they are not doing anything illegal. It is the responsibility of the government and the tax authority to eradicate these loopholes. We can't blame the corporations for it.

Right, I agree with you. Sometimes when you see people complaining about "tax evasion" they are complaining about legal tax avoidance. But I don't think it's the government's responsibility to eradicate loopholes; the government built them in the first place to placate some special interest. It is the responsibility of the citizens to hold their reps responsible for creating/not closing loopholes.

If it takes you longer than 5 minutes to calculate how much income tax you have to pay, the system is too complicated.

These special interest groups lobby and contribute to political campaigns, so it's part of the deal which obviously conflicts with policies that would benefit the greater population.  Until it gets to the point where a politician rises up without having to sell his/her soul to the contributors of their campaign, I wouldn't really expect any change unfortunately.

Yeah, our system misaligns the interests of the nation with the interests of politicians. The politician's aim is to get reelected, so they enact policies to that end. Those policies are not always in the best interest of the nation, in fact, I'd say they're often not. How do we fix this? Ultimately, you have to take money out of politics, but doing this does infringe freedom. The question is where is the line when this is acceptable?

Yeah you hit the nail on the head with reducing the money controlled by politics and government in general.  Another possibly less effective way would be to make government decisions fully transparent to the public, which would give corruption more exposure.

As the public becomes more aware and informed, they can make better decisions when voting and that may give an opportunity to more honest politicians.