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Author Topic: whats making fraud in bitcoin?  (Read 547 times)
leucocito (OP)
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June 11, 2015, 04:46:42 PM
 #1

Hi, im new with bitcoin .
I was reading a text related bitcoin that says that :
"in terms of the cost of electricity the necessary work to make fraud is gonna be always greater than the resulting economic benefit".

I was wondering , what does it means "making fraud" in bitcoin context?

can anybody give me an example of what "making fraud" means, or how can one make fraud in bitcoin?


thanks in advance.


L.
DannyHamilton
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June 11, 2015, 04:52:41 PM
 #2

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses#Attacker_has_a_lot_of_computing_power

Attacker has a lot of computing power

An attacker that controls more than 50% of the network's computing power can, for the time that he is in control, exclude and modify the ordering of transactions. This allows him to:

  • Reverse transactions that he sends while he's in control. This has the potential to double-spend transactions that previously had already been seen in the block chain.
  • Prevent some or all transactions from gaining any confirmations
  • Prevent some or all other miners from mining any valid blocks

The attacker can't:

  • Reverse other people's transactions
  • Prevent transactions from being sent at all (they'll show as 0/unconfirmed)
  • Change the number of coins generated per block
  • Create coins out of thin air
  • Send coins that never belonged to him

With less than 50%, the same kind of attacks are possible, but with less than 100% rate of success. For example, someone with only 40% of the network computing power can overcome a 6-deep confirmed transaction with a 50% success rate.

It's much more difficult to change historical blocks, and it becomes exponentially more difficult the further back you go. As above, changing historical blocks only allows you to exclude and change the ordering of transactions. It's impossible to change blocks created before the last checkpoint.

Since this attack doesn't permit all that much power over the network, it is expected that no one will attempt it. A profit-seeking person will always gain more by just following the rules, and even someone trying to destroy the system will probably find other attacks more attractive.
oblivi
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June 11, 2015, 05:30:14 PM
 #3

51% Is not enough sometimes, is just a threshold where you start being in an a dangerous area, it doesn't automatically mean that if you got 52% yo can go around double spending etc.
DannyHamilton
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June 11, 2015, 05:57:25 PM
 #4

51% Is not enough sometimes, is just a threshold where you start being in an a dangerous area, it doesn't automatically mean that if you got 52% yo can go around double spending etc.

This is completely and absolutely wrong.

As you get closer to 50% (but are still less then 50%) you "start being in an a dangerous area" where you have a chance to possibly remove confirmation from transactions so that you can confirm a competing transaction.

Once you have more than 50% of the total global hash power, you will (for the time that you are able to maintain more than 50% of the total global hash power) be able to choose which blocks are added to the blockchain, and be able to choose which transactions are confirmed.  You will also be able to remove confirmations from recently confirmed transactions and confirm competing transactions that use the same inputs in their place.
jeannemadrigal2
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June 11, 2015, 06:02:26 PM
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Just to be clear a 51% attack would be nearly possible to make, and the resources required means that it wouldn't really be worth it even if you could make that attack. 
aztecminer
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June 11, 2015, 10:14:07 PM
 #6

Hi, im new with bitcoin .
I was reading a text related bitcoin that says that :
"in terms of the cost of electricity the necessary work to make fraud is gonna be always greater than the resulting economic benefit".

I was wondering , what does it means "making fraud" in bitcoin context?

can anybody give me an example of what "making fraud" means, or how can one make fraud in bitcoin?


thanks in advance.


L.


they are talking about the penguins who live on the Falkland islands who apple pick for a living, which is a form of making fraud by selling for bitcoins. there is no gain or benefit from their fraudulent activities. they only can get away with it as long as they don't get caught by one of those south american penguin hunting wolves. those falkland island penguins are not paying income taxes on the bitcoins they earn from picking apples for one thing.
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