Greece has made an important concession

[BIT-Sharon]

Greece has made an important concession that not only giveing up the former standpoint, but also considering the discussion with Brussel Group which had regular meetings with Greece and its technical team in the past few months . The suggestion includes the contents as followings: 1. low primary surplus makes Greece free from deflation policy; 2. the protection of pension and wages avoids further wage and pension cutting in order to stop recession.3.to carry on reallocation of the income of most people in society.4. debt restructuring makes Greece's new debts stop and old debts paid back, but not the vicious circle for development of the real economy. 5. to restore collective negotiation of labour and capital, and cancel the resolutive labour relationship. 6.Strong investment plans on basic infrastructure and real economy are introduced.

[NUFCrichard]

Greece has made an important concession that not only giveing up the former standpoint, but also considering the discussion with Brussel Group which had regular meetings with Greece and its technical team in the past few months . The suggestion includes the contents as followings: 1. low primary surplus makes Greece free from deflation policy; 2. the protection of pension and wages avoids further wage and pension cutting in order to stop recession.3.to carry on reallocation of the income of most people in society.4. debt restructuring makes Greece's new debts stop and old debts paid back, but not the vicious circle for development of the real economy. 5. to restore collective negotiation of labour and capital, and cancel the resolutive labour relationship. 6.Strong investment plans on basic infrastructure and real economy are introduced.

What there is the important concession?

2. seems unworkable, they can't be a far poorer country with lots of debt, but continue to have richer country wages and pensions that are being phased out everywhere.
4. sounds like an idea, but not one that is workable or will actually happen.
6. seems like it would go directly against the Troica.

It's all just can kicking, someday they will realise that they need to leave the € to get out of their mess. 

[bryant.coleman]

2. seems unworkable, they can't be a far poorer country with lots of debt, but continue to have richer country wages and pensions that are being phased out everywhere.

Already they have been forced to reduce the wages and the pensions many times in the past, which is pushing vulnerable sections of the population, such as the elderly towards extreme poverty. And why should the pensioners agree to transfer their pension funds to Goldman Sachs? They had worked hard in the past, to qualify for the pensions.

[randy8777]

Greece has made an important concession that not only giveing up the former standpoint, but also considering the discussion with Brussel Group which had regular meetings with Greece and its technical team in the past few months . The suggestion includes the contents as followings: 1. low primary surplus makes Greece free from deflation policy; 2. the protection of pension and wages avoids further wage and pension cutting in order to stop recession.3.to carry on reallocation of the income of most people in society.4. debt restructuring makes Greece's new debts stop and old debts paid back, but not the vicious circle for development of the real economy. 5. to restore collective negotiation of labour and capital, and cancel the resolutive labour relationship. 6.Strong investment plans on basic infrastructure and real economy are introduced.

What there is the important concession?

2. seems unworkable, they can't be a far poorer country with lots of debt, but continue to have richer country wages and pensions that are being phased out everywhere.
4. sounds like an idea, but not one that is workable or will actually happen.
6. seems like it would go directly against the Troica.

It's all just can kicking, someday they will realise that they need to leave the € to get out of their mess.  

they won't let greece leave the euro zone, the danger is that other countries may follow if it indeed turns out to be a benefit for them.

[TinEye]

Greece has made an important concession that not only giveing up the former standpoint, but also considering the discussion with Brussel Group which had regular meetings with Greece and its technical team in the past few months . The suggestion includes the contents as followings: 1. low primary surplus makes Greece free from deflation policy; 2. the protection of pension and wages avoids further wage and pension cutting in order to stop recession.3.to carry on reallocation of the income of most people in society.4. debt restructuring makes Greece's new debts stop and old debts paid back, but not the vicious circle for development of the real economy. 5. to restore collective negotiation of labour and capital, and cancel the resolutive labour relationship. 6.Strong investment plans on basic infrastructure and real economy are introduced.

What there is the important concession?

2. seems unworkable, they can't be a far poorer country with lots of debt, but continue to have richer country wages and pensions that are being phased out everywhere.
4. sounds like an idea, but not one that is workable or will actually happen.
6. seems like it would go directly against the Troica.

It's all just can kicking, someday they will realise that they need to leave the € to get out of their mess.  

they won't let greece leave the euro zone, the danger is that other countries may follow if it indeed turns out to be a benefit for them.

but only those nations that are in bad situation will follow, others will stays with europe, if some poor countries leave the euro zone, it should turn the euro strongher and not weaker, because those country are heavily dependent of the central european bank, and they are not helping the global euro economy in any way, they are parasite of them at present

[Kakmakr]

If your pension payout was calculated on a salary that you should not have received, due to corruption are you still eligible to receive it for the rest of your life? They should just recalculate the pension benefits given to all the corrupt officials and give them, what they should have paid out, without the corruption. How many of these corrupt officials, receive huge pensions monthly, based on incorrect salaries given to them, when they were still working? Greece is a wonderful country, but they have huge problems.   

[NUFCrichard]

Greece, as a country, overborrowed and over spent during the boom years. 
It's very understandable, but they went from being a fairly low GDP country, to a quite high GDP country (<$11k per person in 2001, >$30k per person in 2008). 

Now that wages have fallen a little bit, the people aren't happy, and I understand that, but really the GDP per person should probably be <$20k, whereas it isn't, it is still about $29k.

If I lived in Greece, I'd be pissed too.  The people didn't do anything wrong.  The EU shouldn't have let them join the € in the first place, and the country shouldn't have overspent, but they both did, so now someone is going to pay for it, and it won't be the people who should!

[yayayo]

Whatever Greece concedes, I would not lend any additional cent to them. They are highly unlikely to keep their promises, because they are neither motivated nor able.

The best decision for the EU would be to push Greece out of the Euro. But they already have "invested" hundreds of billions and would have problems to explain their losses to the taxpayers (>> leaders would loose their power).

It's both entertaining and tragic to watch the current negotiation show.

ya.ya.yo!

[hua_hui]

IMO Greece is falling in debt hole and never gonna pay off! The lenders haven't realized their mistakes yet! They won't be able to give out  unending loans!

[Q7]

What I see here is basically digging up some dirt from one place to cover up another hole at another place. Whatever measures proposed is merely to please the lenders and it's a matter of time all these will collapse because nobody would want to give a free handout anymore. You can't continue to cut and hoping that the citizen will be content with the way things are. The way things are going it's like moving to a dead end.

[bryant.coleman]

Now that wages have fallen a little bit, the people aren't happy, and I understand that, but really the GDP per person should probably be <$20k, whereas it isn't, it is still about $29k.

The Greek per capita GDP has fallen from $31,700 in 2008, to $21,956 to 2013 (according to the latest data from World Bank). And right now, in 2015, I believe that it might have fallen to $12,000 - $15,000. The Greek people are suffering quite a lot due to the incompetence of their leaders and from the greed of Goldman Sachs.

[Marbit]

Now that wages have fallen a little bit, the people aren't happy, and I understand that, but really the GDP per person should probably be <$20k, whereas it isn't, it is still about $29k.

The Greek per capita GDP has fallen from $31,700 in 2008, to $21,956 to 2013 (according to the latest data from World Bank). And right now, in 2015, I believe that it might have fallen to $12,000 - $15,000. The Greek people are suffering quite a lot due to the incompetence of their leaders and from the greed of Goldman Sachs.

It is high time for Greece to adopt Bitcoin as the bureaucrats and the politicians will leave Greece to the grave, people of Greece should bring an ultimatum together supporting bitcoin atleast they will not encounter the current situation they are in. Their per capita income should rise and there should be more employment opportunists that needs to be created, it is high time for Greece to wake up.

[knowhow]

Now that wages have fallen a little bit, the people aren't happy, and I understand that, but really the GDP per person should probably be <$20k, whereas it isn't, it is still about $29k.

The Greek per capita GDP has fallen from $31,700 in 2008, to $21,956 to 2013 (according to the latest data from World Bank). And right now, in 2015, I believe that it might have fallen to $12,000 - $15,000. The Greek people are suffering quite a lot due to the incompetence of their leaders and from the greed of Goldman Sachs.

It is high time for Greece to adopt Bitcoin as the bureaucrats and the politicians will leave Greece to the grave, people of Greece should bring an ultimatum together supporting bitcoin atleast they will not encounter the current situation they are in. Their per capita income should rise and there should be more employment opportunists that needs to be created, it is high time for Greece to wake up.

greece need to reborn and get out EU  the big problem is there is too many money lended ,that cant ask back if greece lelf ,but they are like a cancer currently.. the more they ask and get harder ... maybe bitcoin mass adoption there can allow them to return but would be a mess since bitcoin would be good to travel to greece and be able to spend my bitcoins at any place ,rent a car ,hotel.restaurant.... cinema,buying clothes and others...

[countryfree]

I guess we all agree that Greece has had incompetent political leaders for many years (just like today), but if Greece is a democracy, and it's been one for quite a few years, the people somehow, should be responsible.

[Amph]

Now that wages have fallen a little bit, the people aren't happy, and I understand that, but really the GDP per person should probably be <$20k, whereas it isn't, it is still about $29k.

The Greek per capita GDP has fallen from $31,700 in 2008, to $21,956 to 2013 (according to the latest data from World Bank). And right now, in 2015, I believe that it might have fallen to $12,000 - $15,000. The Greek people are suffering quite a lot due to the incompetence of their leaders and from the greed of Goldman Sachs.

It is high time for Greece to adopt Bitcoin as the bureaucrats and the politicians will leave Greece to the grave, people of Greece should bring an ultimatum together supporting bitcoin atleast they will not encounter the current situation they are in. Their per capita income should rise and there should be more employment opportunists that needs to be created, it is high time for Greece to wake up.

i don't think they will, i remember an article where they said that they are only interested in the technology behind it, not in the price so much, and volatility of it will not help they situation in any way

bitcoin is still too speculative, for be adopted by anyone without carrying even a bigger risk

[bryant.coleman]

greece need to reborn and get out EU  the big problem is there is too many money lended ,that cant ask back if greece lelf ,but they are like a cancer currently.. the more they ask and get harder ... maybe bitcoin mass adoption there can allow them to return but would be a mess since bitcoin would be good to travel to greece and be able to spend my bitcoins at any place ,rent a car ,hotel.restaurant.... cinema,buying clothes and others...

Trust me, getting out of the European Union will not solve Greece's problems. On the other hand, it will only exacerbate them. First of all, the Greeks needs to reduce wasteful spending, and prevent corruption. They also need to find new revenue sources, such as the transit fees from the Russian-backed Turkish Stream project.   

[u9y42]

I guess we all agree that Greece has had incompetent political leaders for many years (just like today), but if Greece is a democracy, and it's been one for quite a few years, the people somehow, should be responsible.

While I would like to agree with you on this (there certainly is a lot of corruption and tax evasion there), I think we all know that's not really how things work; under most circumstances, the general public has little or no knowledge of, or influence in, the way countries are run. Further, as bryant.coleman pointed out, the people are being held responsible, in a way: their standard of living has plummeted - they are suffering quite a lot (and have been for several years now).

IMO Greece is falling in debt hole and never gonna pay off! The lenders haven't realized their mistakes yet! They won't be able to give out  unending loans!

Of course they realize Greece will never be able to pay back at this rate; the IMF, for example, pretty much said so by itself. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean they are ready to change their extreme neo-liberal commitments - something that will hopefully begin to change once Podemos wins in Spain later this year / early next year (the most likely outcome of the elections).

[tyz]

Greece will never reduce its wasteful spending as long as it is part of the Euro Zone. That's why I think it is much better for both sides to leave the Eurozone (not the EU). Greece will have two three hard years but then their new currency will affect a economy boost. Greece will never make this within the Eurozone.

Trust me, getting out of the European Union will not solve Greece's problems. On the other hand, it will only exacerbate them. First of all, the Greeks needs to reduce wasteful spending, and prevent corruption. They also need to find new revenue sources, such as the transit fees from the Russian-backed Turkish Stream project.   

[knowhow]

the think is several countries entered on the euro zone without being allowed by the rules they set like the debit of the country not pass over 1% Portugal when entered has around 3,4%of the pib in debit... and they joined the same way a country with all requirements had enter... the cost of things doubled on the change of the coin atleast in Portugal the product i paid before were 0.40 euros (converted)and after euro in 2004 year the same thing were just at 0,80 euro soo  the governments accepted it soo easy ,its europe a dream coming true.... bla bla bla you will trade easy sell easy they sold a dream coin that currently isnt such those dream..... greece lives from turist money.... the main resorce is turism.... soo they really need to get out or readjust their economy and their bills.... otherwise a nightmare will happen on Greece that some citizens think already getting .... earn 30000 euros from an retirement is just a fucking joke...... those is insane and insustentable on medium time that happened already ...

[aahzmundus]

2. seems unworkable, they can't be a far poorer country with lots of debt, but continue to have richer country wages and pensions that are being phased out everywhere.

Already they have been forced to reduce the wages and the pensions many times in the past, which is pushing vulnerable sections of the population, such as the elderly towards extreme poverty. And why should the pensioners agree to transfer their pension funds to Goldman Sachs? They had worked hard in the past, to qualify for the pensions.

I back Bryant on this, does seem very harsh upon the pensioners, it's unfair to disregard the elderly population.
And about debt restructuring, sound like something interesting, but hard to imagine that happening.