3000-6000 BTC loan - Hookah Lounge - 9/18/12 Update

[kentrolla]

I don't limit the variable to 6 hookahs, I can have more than 6 sessions at a time.

The amount of hookas you plan to use are NOT unlimited. You are limited by space available. Even in hooka palaces in Turkey and the Middle East (yes, I've been to them) they don't figure "Unlimited hookas", they figure it by how much SPACE you have. A comfortable booth is roughly 10x10 for you to share with 3 other people, with the hookah in the middle. Now, you may see "See, I can fit SIXTY of them in my palace!" No. You cannot. Number one, you have to abide by firecodes for minimum aisle length, you are offering rooms, there will be a counter, stock room, bathrooms, etc offered.

Take your floorplan, and draw up a layout. I took a look at your graphic arts skill, you have the skill to do this, and make impressive isometric diagrams.

Start with that, Dank.

 If you'd like to make adjustments to the spreadsheet, feel free to make your own copy and share it so we can actually see the math going into it.

In other words, make you a completely working spreadsheet for your business plan for free?

Sorry, that isn't had the free market works. I am under no obligation to provide you with a self-calculating spreadsheet for all the variables just to see the math going into it when I already showed my work right in the thread.

Would you provide me with free artwork just to show me that you can do it?

As it stands, 72 customers/day (9/hour) would bring in $7,452.64/month profit, 80 customers/day (10/hour) $9,375.20/month profit, 84 customers/day (10.5/hour) $11,930.08/month, 96 customers/day (12/hour) $15,132.64/month, 112 customers/day (14/hour) $20,890.08/month.

That's assuming maximum capacity at all times, which rarely happens.

 Of course, this is without taxes, insurance and other expenses yet to be factored in.  Seems to me the margin will be high enough to cover those, though.

Seems like it, doesn't it. Better get your numbers so you know.

Repentance, I appreciate your comment, I really just don't operate by planning out the tasks for the next month.

You will fail dismally at any task in life, including living on your own.

Enjoy working for me.

 I don't make deadlines and I don't write step by step plans.

You will never succeed at a job where you work for other people, and will never graduate from a college.

 I learn what has to be done, and I do it.

They call those people "Homeless"

 I know, it must seem completely foreign to think of a business that is operated in the moment, but it would work just as well, if not better.

They're usually called: "Bankrupt"

 I'll still know everything that has to be done and I'll still do it all, I just won't write out how I'm going to do it.

You will secure no funding from anyone who isn't named Ivan or Hong.

It just seems redundant and unnecessary to me.  I'll keep track of finances, of course, but planning out tasks that way is not for me.

Then you will fail as a small business owner, or just reel month to month on the edge of bankruptcy.

I have yet to see a whole lot of helpful advice from these experienced businessmen.  Perhaps if Monster-Ant didn't have a negative tone to everything he says, I could take it as advice.

You think I'm being negative? Boy, I might as well be blowing sunshine up your baby smooth ass compared to a loan officer or when the employment department or labor board comes a-knocking. Not to mention OSHA. And my God, if you think I'm negative, the IRS agent will make you cry just looking at your phone number.

Or is it negative because I"m treating you like an adult who wishes to undertake an adult task instead of telling you how fabulous you are for having an IDEA and wanting everyone to finance you. Hell, you've stated people should finance your life and dreams.

Here's a hint: Dreams are worth nothing outside of motivation.

BorderBits, how many times do I have to repeat, it was a restaurant, that is still operating.  Thank you for judging me and telling me who I am and what I can do.  I, and you, are capable of being anything and possessing any ability.

Become a Navy SEAL or US Army Ranger by this time tomorrow and demonstrate the ability to eat coal and shit diamonds.

I've had enough of you all's doubt.

Then you'll run out of the bank crying.

 You don't know who I am or anything about me, yet you think you can tell me I can't do something because I want to do it differently.  I will prove you wrong, just as I have been doing to this very day.

Don't say stuff like this if you want to be taken seriously.

Dank, I was going to tell you that after looking at your other ventures, it looked like you have skill, experience, and an eye for graphic design, and might make an excellent graphic designer full time.

But since you can't make deadlines, so much for you being professional.

much better. Way to tell him like it is.

I was wondering why people were being so nice to a kid that is getting so much valuable information and brushing it off with the justification: "i'm special so those rules don't apply to me."
I think it is because he reminds us of what we were like at that age before we got a dose of reality.  I can't speak for anyone else, but I was almost as naive as this kid.  

But, when I was growing up, I didn't have the plethora of information that was on the internet.  So I never had the privilege to get sound advice from people more knowledgeable than me only trying to help me FOR FREE. Back in my day if you were lucky enough to even find someone with the experience these guys have you would have to cough up a pretty penny for any kind of help or information about the trade. This is also assuming they are even willing to sell their advice.

Dank, I don't think you realize how privileged you actually are. Your attitude is going to hold you back. I know all you want to hear is ponies and rainbows because you feel that any negativity hinders your chances at success. But we would feel terrible telling someone who has no clue what hes doing that its a good idea, just to make him feel better. That would be the absolute worst thing anyone could do for you. You really need wake up and smell the coffee.

Optimism is great and it will help you succeed, but you shouldn't just ignore all the warnings just because you want to stay optimistic.

I really think people should stop trying to help this kid because the only way hes actually going to learn a lesson is if he just goes and tries it himself and learns the hard way.  He clearly isn't going to take anyone's advice because he thinks he has the universe all figured out.

Dank, you're still young. You have a lot to learn. If you can't admit that you have a lot to learn then you will never learn.

To end this rant on a good note. You seem to have more than enough motivation, drive, and decisiveness to become successful and I'm pretty sure with a little bit of attitude change, you WILL be very successful.  Nobody wants to do business with someone that has 0 experience and 0 preparation but yet still thinks he knows better than anyone else.  You're just going to have to accept the fact that there are people out there that are more knowledgeable than you when it comes to start-ups.

I think what you really need is complete ego loss. I never thought I would be suggesting this to an 18 year old kid, but you need to take a significant amount of LSD or DMT, so you can lose that ego of yours and finally start to make sense of the concept of "equality." That is the only feasible way I can see you actually changing your attitude and perspective on life and realize how much of a douche bag you sounded like before the trip.

Your ego is the main thing that will hold you back in life. Please trust me. You will know what I mean after you have a ground breaking epiphany.

I know this all sounds condescending, but I used to be just like you.

I hope you're not already too deep into your own mind that you will brush off this advice as just another person of inferior intelligence who has no clue what he's talking about.

If this doesn't get through to you, then you're shit out of luck and you're at the point of no return. NO ONE will be able to help you.

[Rarity]

I strongly disagree with any advice that you should continue to abuse drugs.  Drugs are your problem, not your solution.

[kentrolla]

his ego is his problem.  The only way that I know of to go through "complete ego loss" is through taking DMT or LSD.  Preferably DMT.  You only need to do this one time, and you will never want to do drugs again in your life.

Trust me, I thinks drugs are terrible. But, some of them can have very good therapeutic value and they can help with introspection and can cause you to realize what was wrong with your perspective on life.  I'm suggesting a 1 time experience that will probably help him realize how stupid drugs are.

Rarity, I know you're into spirituality. There might be some way of achieving ego loss through spirituality without using any sort of drug (lucid dreaming perhaps?). I have no clue and I'm no expert in that field.  Keep in mind DMT is produced in your brain naturally and is released every time you go to sleep and when you die. Hence the reason i suggested lucid dreaming could help achieve ego loss without taking a drug (well technically you are taking DMT every time you sleep.)

I can vouch for lucid dreaming. I learn more from my dreams than I do from reality.

Also, DMT has nothing to do with the "false sense of happiness" that u seem to dislike so much.

[Rarity]

Ego is not really the concern.  The problem for Dank is he is attempting to drown the sorrow and pain in his reactive mind with drug abuse.  That may gave him some temporary relief, but it is also drowning out the rationality of his analytic mind.  Thus, despite his intelligence and work ethic he is unable to produce an appropriate business plan at this current time. 

In order to cleanse his mind of the forces that are holding him back he needs to give up the drugs and begin to work towards clarity.  I've seen such a process change countless lives for the better.  He needs a permanent solution, not a temporary one.

[Monster-Ant]

He'll get his wakeup call without drugs.

Once he gets a job, has to move out of his parent's house, and has to support himself he'll lose all his "I'm special, finance my dreams for me!" shiny diamond attitudes.

Right now he believes in magical thinking, believing that just wanting to be something makes him something and he can have whatever abilities he desires just by wishing hard enough.

Working for minimum wage at Wal-Mart, having a crappy apartment, and eating Top Ramen for a month will knock that out of him.

College will knock that out of him the first time he has to meet homework deadlines and he finds out he failed a test because just wanting something to be right won't make it right.

Hell, a tour of Afghanistan will knock that out of him.

He needs to realize he is only as special as his accomplishments make him, not his dreams.

Martin Luther King had a dream, that dream motivated to make accomplishments, and he's remembered for that.

Dreams only serve as motivation.

Have dreams. Strive for your dreams. Try to live your dreams. Accomplish your dreams.

[kentrolla]

Ego is not really the concern.  The problem for Dank is he is attempting to drown the sorrow and pain in his reactive mind with drug abuse.  That may gave him some temporary relief, but it is also drowning out the rationality of his analytic mind.  Thus, despite his intelligence and work ethic he is unable to produce an appropriate business plan at this current time. 

In order to cleanse his mind of the forces that are holding him back he needs to give up the drugs and begin to work towards clarity.  I've seen such a process change countless lives for the better.  He needs a permanent solution, not a temporary one.

I agree this would work. But hes already too deep into his ego trip that he would never take any of your advice.

[Rarity]

I've seen people in much worse shape than Dank put their lives back together.  Even just a few moments of clarity to start the process can be enough.

[kentrolla]

He'll get his wakeup call without drugs.

Once he gets a job, has to move out of his parent's house, and has to support himself he'll lose all his "I'm special, finance my dreams for me!" shiny diamond attitudes.

Right now he believes in magical thinking, believing that just wanting to be something makes him something and he can have whatever abilities he desires just by wishing hard enough.

Working for minimum wage at Wal-Mart, having a crappy apartment, and eating Top Ramen for a month will knock that out of him.

College will knock that out of him the first time he has to meet homework deadlines and he finds out he failed a test because just wanting something to be right won't make it right.

Hell, a tour of Afghanistan will knock that out of him.

He needs to realize he is only as special as his accomplishments make him, not his dreams.

Martin Luther King had a dream, that dream motivated to make accomplishments, and he's remembered for that.

Dreams only serve as motivation.

Have dreams. Strive for your dreams. Try to live your dreams. Accomplish your dreams.

the problem with this is his ego won't allow him to work a minimum wage job. I'm guessing he won't go to college because he thinks he already knows everything.  Whats the point of getting an education if you think you can just will anything to happen and it will become true?

The only way I see him having a significant change in perception is through taking DMT.  Because he's obviously into drugs and that's the only suggestion that he won't think is just a bunch of bullshit. It might also help him realize how stupid drugs really are without having to take someone's word for it.

[dank]

I don't limit the variable to 6 hookahs, I can have more than 6 sessions at a time.

The amount of hookas you plan to use are NOT unlimited. You are limited by space available. Even in hooka palaces in Turkey and the Middle East (yes, I've been to them) they don't figure "Unlimited hookas", they figure it by how much SPACE you have. A comfortable booth is roughly 10x10 for you to share with 3 other people, with the hookah in the middle. Now, you may see "See, I can fit SIXTY of them in my palace!" No. You cannot. Number one, you have to abide by firecodes for minimum aisle length, you are offering rooms, there will be a counter, stock room, bathrooms, etc offered.

Take your floorplan, and draw up a layout. I took a look at your graphic arts skill, you have the skill to do this, and make impressive isometric diagrams. This place is 6000 square feet, I'm quite sure I can manage at least 20 hookahs in use, at once, that's 300 square feet per hookah.

Start with that, Dank.

 If you'd like to make adjustments to the spreadsheet, feel free to make your own copy and share it so we can actually see the math going into it.

In other words, make you a completely working spreadsheet for your business plan for free?

Sorry, that isn't had the free market works. I am under no obligation to provide you with a self-calculating spreadsheet for all the variables just to see the math going into it when I already showed my work right in the thread.

Would you provide me with free artwork just to show me that you can do it?

As it stands, 72 customers/day (9/hour) would bring in $7,452.64/month profit, 80 customers/day (10/hour) $9,375.20/month profit, 84 customers/day (10.5/hour) $11,930.08/month, 96 customers/day (12/hour) $15,132.64/month, 112 customers/day (14/hour) $20,890.08/month.

That's assuming maximum capacity at all times, which rarely happens. This is NOT assuming maximum capacity, maximum capacity would be well over 300-400 people/night

 Of course, this is without taxes, insurance and other expenses yet to be factored in.  Seems to me the margin will be high enough to cover those, though.

Seems like it, doesn't it. Better get your numbers so you know.

Repentance, I appreciate your comment, I really just don't operate by planning out the tasks for the next month.

You will fail dismally at any task in life, including living on your own. That's nice.

Enjoy working for me.

 I don't make deadlines and I don't write step by step plans.

You will never succeed at a job where you work for other people, and will never graduate from a college.

 I learn what has to be done, and I do it.

They call those people "Homeless"

 I know, it must seem completely foreign to think of a business that is operated in the moment, but it would work just as well, if not better.

They're usually called: "Bankrupt"

 I'll still know everything that has to be done and I'll still do it all, I just won't write out how I'm going to do it.

You will secure no funding from anyone who isn't named Ivan or Hong.

It just seems redundant and unnecessary to me.  I'll keep track of finances, of course, but planning out tasks that way is not for me.

Then you will fail as a small business owner, or just reel month to month on the edge of bankruptcy. If you say so.

I have yet to see a whole lot of helpful advice from these experienced businessmen.  Perhaps if Monster-Ant didn't have a negative tone to everything he says, I could take it as advice.

You think I'm being negative? Boy, I might as well be blowing sunshine up your baby smooth ass compared to a loan officer or when the employment department or labor board comes a-knocking. Not to mention OSHA. And my God, if you think I'm negative, the IRS agent will make you cry just looking at your phone number.

Or is it negative because I"m treating you like an adult who wishes to undertake an adult task instead of telling you how fabulous you are for having an IDEA and wanting everyone to finance you. Hell, you've stated people should finance your life and dreams.

Here's a hint: Dreams are worth nothing outside of motivation.

BorderBits, how many times do I have to repeat, it was a restaurant, that is still operating.  Thank you for judging me and telling me who I am and what I can do.  I, and you, are capable of being anything and possessing any ability.

Become a Navy SEAL or US Army Ranger by this time tomorrow and demonstrate the ability to eat coal and shit diamonds. What?

I've had enough of you all's doubt.

Then you'll run out of the bank crying.

 You don't know who I am or anything about me, yet you think you can tell me I can't do something because I want to do it differently.  I will prove you wrong, just as I have been doing to this very day.

Don't say stuff like this if you want to be taken seriously.

Dank, I was going to tell you that after looking at your other ventures, it looked like you have skill, experience, and an eye for graphic design, and might make an excellent graphic designer full time.

But since you can't make deadlines, so much for you being professional. I don't make deadlines, I just get what ever has to be done done.

EDIT: Your freelance graphic design thread is what caught my attention on you. I decided to research your other business ideas/strategies/creations in order to be sure that you could handle long term work on a freelance basis.

If you can't handle a deadline, you can't handle instructions, and can't handle telling me step by step how you're going to approach a project, I'll look elsewhere for graphic designers.

It'd be easier to take this as advice if you didn't say so many inaccurate statements.

[silverbox]

I'm still wondering if there is a rip in Dank's steering wheel..??

[Fluttershy]

Dank, if you can answer all of Monster-Ant's questions sufficiently, you'll be able to get a loan no problem. Don't just ignore it because his negativity is harshing your buzz, it's called reality and you'll have to face it before your idea becomes more than a pipe dream. The way you're acting on, in some weird reality where you do get the business started, you'll just drop all pretense of operating it and just make use of the facilities because it's real work and it's harder than you expected it would be. Then you'll lose your building and be wondering what happened, while some college kids pick up cheap hookahs at your going out of business sale.

Seriously, draft up a floor plan using the building you're looking at, spend some time doing some proper research into what all you'll need.

[Fluttershy]

ARGH, my eyes hurt just looking at that one.

[greyhawk]

Aaaaand we're back to the part with the vomit.

[Monster-Ant]

It'd be easier to take this as advice if you didn't say so many inaccurate statements.

Please show any and all inaccurate statements that are factually inaccurate and not inaccurate because you want them to be.

[arklan]

very interesting read, this thread... makes me all ponderful and such. (yes, ponderful. shut up.)

[Monster-Ant]

To be honest his "business plan" and his "spreadsheet" wouldn't qualify him to go up to cars and ask "Can you spare any Bitcoins, I haven't eaten in a week!"

He deserves a lesson in Free Market by having someone charge him 10-15 BTC per hour to fix that mess so he can apply to a bank.

[repentance]

He deserves a lesson in Free Market by having someone charge him 10-15 BTC per hour to fix that mess so he can apply to a bank.

The lesson he'll get in Free Market is someone else leasing the building because he doesn't have the funds or anything else organised which would allow him to acquire it.  He'll probably abandon the project if he can't get that particular building and blame "lack of capital" or "no-one giving him a chance" for the project stalling.

[dissipate]

I have to say, this is a great thread. However, pointing out all of the lack of information in dank's plan could have been avoided. The reason why? Asking for a large loan in BTC for any significant period of time is crazy, especially for funding a business. What happens if the value of the BTC goes way up? The borrower will never be able to pay it back. See this thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=103275.0

Dank's plan is DOA from the thread title: 2000-4000 BTC loan - Hookah Lounge

Edit: I see he had thought about the problem of BTC rising in price, but his plan doesn't solve the problem.

I have no problem providing identification as requested.  I'm interested in any loan between 2000 BTC and 4000 BTC for a term of 1-2 years.  To adjust for price influxations between USD inflation and BTC, we would recalculate the payments, every month, relative to the initial start up cost.  For example, you lend me 4000 BTC @ $11/coin, $44,000 and I plan on repaying it over two years with 2% interest/month.  Our monthly payment would equal $1870, or 167 BTC, including interest.  If Bitcoin should rise to $20/coin within that period and USD loses 10% purchasing power, I would recalculate the loan to $48,400 giving us a payment of 101 BTC.  This protects me from BTC price variations and you from USD devaluation.

If 1 BTC went to $20, the investor would have almost certainly been better off with the BTC. And assuming dank didn't sell all the coins at once, he would now have reaped the rewards of $20 BTC.

[repentance]

I have to say, this is a great thread. However, pointing out all of the lack of information in dank's plan could have been avoided. The reason why? Asking for a large loan in BTC for any significant period of time is crazy, especially for funding a business. What happens if the value of the BTC goes way up? The borrower will never be able to pay it back. See this thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=103275.0

Dank's plan is DOA from the thread title: 2000-4000 BTC loan - Hookah Lounge

Edit: I see he had thought about the problem of BTC rising in price, but his plan doesn't solve the problem.

I have no problem providing identification as requested.  I'm interested in any loan between 2000 BTC and 4000 BTC for a term of 1-2 years.  To adjust for price influxations between USD inflation and BTC, we would recalculate the payments, every month, relative to the initial start up cost.  For example, you lend me 4000 BTC @ $11/coin, $44,000 and I plan on repaying it over two years with 2% interest/month.  Our monthly payment would equal $1870, or 167 BTC, including interest.  If Bitcoin should rise to $20/coin within that period and USD loses 10% purchasing power, I would recalculate the loan to $48,400 giving us a payment of 101 BTC.  This protects me from BTC price variations and you from USD devaluation.

If 1 BTC went to $20, the investor would have almost certainly been better off with the BTC. And assuming dank didn't sell all the coins at once, he would now have reaped the rewards of $20 BTC.

Real world loan contracts deal with this all the time.  You denominate the contract in terms of the most stable currency even if the funds are loaned and the repayments made in another.  dank's proposed venture is not a "Bitcoin business" in any meaningful sense of the word.  The vast majority of his business will be conducted with USD and that's also the currency in which his accounting records will be maintained.  It's a pretty trivial matter to denominate the loan contract in USD and repay the lender in Bitcoins.

[dissipate]

I have to say, this is a great thread. However, pointing out all of the lack of information in dank's plan could have been avoided. The reason why? Asking for a large loan in BTC for any significant period of time is crazy, especially for funding a business. What happens if the value of the BTC goes way up? The borrower will never be able to pay it back. See this thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=103275.0

Dank's plan is DOA from the thread title: 2000-4000 BTC loan - Hookah Lounge

Edit: I see he had thought about the problem of BTC rising in price, but his plan doesn't solve the problem.

I have no problem providing identification as requested.  I'm interested in any loan between 2000 BTC and 4000 BTC for a term of 1-2 years.  To adjust for price influxations between USD inflation and BTC, we would recalculate the payments, every month, relative to the initial start up cost.  For example, you lend me 4000 BTC @ $11/coin, $44,000 and I plan on repaying it over two years with 2% interest/month.  Our monthly payment would equal $1870, or 167 BTC, including interest.  If Bitcoin should rise to $20/coin within that period and USD loses 10% purchasing power, I would recalculate the loan to $48,400 giving us a payment of 101 BTC.  This protects me from BTC price variations and you from USD devaluation.

If 1 BTC went to $20, the investor would have almost certainly been better off with the BTC. And assuming dank didn't sell all the coins at once, he would now have reaped the rewards of $20 BTC.

Real world loan contracts deal with this all the time.  You denominate the contract in terms of the most stable currency even if the funds are loaned and the repayments made in another.  dank's proposed venture is not a "Bitcoin business" in any meaningful sense of the word.  The vast majority of his business will be conducted with USD and that's also the currency in which his accounting records will be maintained.  It's a pretty trivial matter to denominate the loan contract in USD and repay the lender in Bitcoins.

Yes, that is true. I retract my previous statement. If Bitcoin is merely a pass through medium for the loan, it is legitimate.