Bitcoin Forum
December 05, 2016, 02:27:10 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: bitcoin and minimum wage  (Read 2116 times)
grondilu
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134


View Profile
June 01, 2011, 12:10:53 AM
 #1

Alice is looking for a job.  Bob wants to hire her.

B: I would like to hire you but due to minimal wages laws, I can't afford to pay you.
A: Yes I understand, I'm a liberal myself and I think minimal wages make employment more difficult.  Couldn't we find an agreement?
B: What are you thinking about?
A: Well, you officially pay me on minimal wages, in dollars.  And at each pay roll, I send you some percentage using bitcoins.  We keep this between you and me.  Off the book.
B: I see, using bitcoins should allow to avoid any regulators problem. Sounds fine to me.  It's a shame we have to behave like criminals just to work together, though.
1480904830
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480904830

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480904830
Reply with quote  #2

1480904830
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1480904830
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480904830

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480904830
Reply with quote  #2

1480904830
Report to moderator
SomeoneWeird
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700


View Profile
June 01, 2011, 12:18:02 AM
 #2

Quote
And at each pay roll, I send you some percentage using bitcoins. 

Shouldn't bob be sending them to Alice?
abyssobenthonic
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile
June 01, 2011, 12:22:09 AM
 #3

Quote
And at each pay roll, I send you some percentage using bitcoins. 

Shouldn't bob be sending them to Alice?

* Bob is paying Alice in fiat at the minimum wage.
* Alice rebates Bob in bitcoin so that her net wage is less than the minimum wage (as her labor is worth less than the minimum wage)

Tbf, the more likely scenario is probably

* Alice goes on welfare
* Alice works under the table (ooo-er) for Bob
* Bob pays Alice with bitcoin

14wSP6EF4RQ1wW2wcgGi9tDh6MB6tQm3sg
grondilu
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134


View Profile
June 01, 2011, 12:22:16 AM
 #4

Quote
And at each pay roll, I send you some percentage using bitcoins. 

Shouldn't bob be sending them to Alice?

No, as she already received her salary in dollars from Bob.
FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
June 01, 2011, 12:32:48 AM
 #5

Wow, talk about screwing the poor. You have to work and pay Bitcoins and all you get is govBucks.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
nickwit
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 80


View Profile
June 01, 2011, 12:42:21 AM
 #6

I think it's "Minimum" rather than "Minimal" wages.



The underlying premise that "Minimum Wage Makes Employment Difficult" is a crock of shit. In 2010 average CEO earnings went up by 13%... and what is it? 1 in 4? US jobs pay below living-wage. Corporate profits are insane, largely untaxed - and as a direct result of wealth disparity, you've lost your democracy.

If you've got the top 1% taking as much money as the bottom 50% earns, then your time might best be spent on something other than "how to get away with paying people less". For christ sake, stop wracking your brains to dream up ways of fucking yourself up.

--

Other than that, corporations could use bitcoins as a way to break employment law - so you'll need a strong union movement for your society to survive.

When the ruble crashed, Soviet life-expectancy went down by 20 years - that's where you are headed, and "looking after Number One by investing in Bitcoins" is not going to help you. If your society is fucked, you're fucked.



Garrett Burgwardt
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350



View Profile
June 01, 2011, 12:44:31 AM
 #7

I think it's "Minimum" rather than "Minimal" wages.



The underlying premise that "Minimum Wage Makes Employment Difficult" is a crock of shit. In 2010 average CEO earnings went up by 13%... and what is it? 1 in 4? US jobs pay below living-wage. Corporate profits are insane, largely untaxed - and as a direct result of wealth disparity, you've lost your democracy.

If you've got the top 1% taking as much money as the bottom 50% earns, then your time might best be spent on something other than "how to get away with paying people less". For christ sake, stop wracking your brains to dream up ways of yourself up.

--

Other than that, corporations could use bitcoins as a way to break employment law - so you'll need a strong union movement for your society to survive.

When the ruble crashed, Soviet life-expectancy went down by 20 years - that's where you are headed, and "looking after Number One by investing in Bitcoins" is not going to help you. If your society is fucked, you're fucked.

1. Since when is democracy good?

2. If I want some job done, but it's not worth 7 USD an hour because a trained chimp could do it, then why should I be forced to pay 7 USD an hour?

3. If the top 1% are the ones that drive things forward, and can lead a successful business, shouldn't they be paid a good amount?
grondilu
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134


View Profile
June 01, 2011, 12:55:50 AM
 #8

Wow, talk about screwing the poor. You have to work and pay Bitcoins and all you get is govBucks.

No, the secret agreement would be to pay back a percentage of the wage.

Basically you receive say 100$ each week.  You convert them into bitcoin on the current exchange rate, and you get, say 10 bitcoins.  The agreement is to give back 10%, so you give one bitcoin back to your employer and you keep nine bitcoins.

Also, part of the agreement can be of some fixed wage amount expressed in bitcoins.  This should protect the employee against too a strong devaluation of the dollar.

So the wage would be made of this:

- the minimum wage in USD, paid only in order to comply to labour legislation ;
- a secret percentage paid back to the employer.   Could be from 0 to 100% ;
- a secret wage in bitcoins.  Could be 100% of the real wage.
evoorhees
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994


Democracy is the original 51% attack


View Profile
June 01, 2011, 03:51:35 AM
 #9


The underlying premise that "Minimum Wage Makes Employment Difficult" is a crock of shit.


Actually, your statement is a crock of shit. I personally have not hired people precisely because I would have to pay the minimum wage, when the value to me as an employer of their labor was below that wage. I would have hired several people in the past couple years, actually, had the Government not made it unprofitable to do so.

Math is math. If expected revenue from Employee A is $5/hour of labor-time, and cost of wage is $6/hour of labor-time, then the hire will not occur. And of course it doesn't even need to be this precise. If I know a worker will cost $6/hour, and his expected revenue earnings will be anywhere from $4-$8/hour, I still may not hire him because of the cost of acquisition, opportunity costs, unknown risks, etc.

Minimum wage is immoral and unethical, and terrible economic policy. If two people are willing to work together at a mutually-agreed price, no other person in the world has the right to stop them by force. And the people it hurts the most are not the evil capitalists... but rather the poor who are prevented from working at a rate to which they would've voluntarily agreed.
FreeMoney
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


Strength in numbers


View Profile WWW
June 01, 2011, 03:58:03 AM
 #10

Wow, talk about screwing the poor. You have to work and pay Bitcoins and all you get is govBucks.

No, the secret agreement would be to pay back a percentage of the wage.

Basically you receive say 100$ each week.  You convert them into bitcoin on the current exchange rate, and you get, say 10 bitcoins.  The agreement is to give back 10%, so you give one bitcoin back to your employer and you keep nine bitcoins.

Also, part of the agreement can be of some fixed wage amount expressed in bitcoins.  This should protect the employee against too a strong devaluation of the dollar.

So the wage would be made of this:

- the minimum wage in USD, paid only in order to comply to labour legislation ;
- a secret percentage paid back to the employer.   Could be from 0 to 100% ;
- a secret wage in bitcoins.  Could be 100% of the real wage.

Yeah, I was just being clever or sarcastic or something.

I think it is one way that we'll be able to interact more freely thanks to Bitcoin.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
Xenland
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980


I'm not just any shaman, I'm a Sha256man


View Profile
June 01, 2011, 04:01:33 AM
 #11

Why doesn't bob just charge a fee for insurance that he wont get charged for not paying the minimum wage solves the problem and he can right it on the books legally! Cheesy
Denicen
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 46


View Profile
June 01, 2011, 05:02:40 AM
 #12

OP, replace the word bitcoin with the word cash.
grondilu
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134


View Profile
June 01, 2011, 05:09:40 AM
 #13

OP, replace the word bitcoin with the word cash.

Crap.  You're right.  Bitcoin doesn't provide much novelty here.  I totally missed that point.

My bad.  I lock this thread as I don't want other people to point it out.
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!