Police Corruption

[malevolent]

Lol ok, you remind me of when i was 13-15.

Im from the States and my parents/rest of my family are from Argentina and lived through the entire Peron/Military junta so i think i know a thing or two about police states and social corruption.

A piece of paper is not armor to your body or an absolvement of your actions.

Like I said before, police choose to be corrupt. Some places have more corrupt cops than others, and i agree with you that corruption is becoming a much more serious issue. As for videos and youtube of US cops, yea it happens a lot and yea i've witnessed it in person, but thats only because the times when they do wrong stick out way worse than the times they actually do their job.

As for police corruption in NZ, trust me on this: if it is actually happening, you didnt suffer even a fraction of how far true corruption can escalate.

I do feel terrible for your loss though and i couldnt imagine how much that would suck being an outdoors person myself. So for that sorry dude, but you gotta realize by breaking their rules right away is just an instant loss for you.

+1 for Voice Of Reason™

[hashman]

The real travesty was that evil government probably had to confiscate somebody else's property and redistribute it to a medical professional in order to save you from a problem you unnecessarily caused yourself.  Thank your lucky stars that whoever actually performed the procedure looked past your own stupidity and probably gave his reasonable best efforts to leave you in the best possible condition, when he could have just as easily cut off your leg and tell you it was infected and necessary to save your life and that that run was your last, at which point no one would still ever question whether he "did his job".

I am all for exposing police corruption and checks and balances and all, but the authority for the police to chase you down and take you by force after you put your fellow citizens in danger by "initiating" a pursuit serves a legitimate public interest and is likely supported by an overwhelming majority of the population in your area.  This was a story of the police just doing their job.  Save the corruption whistle for when the police actually violate the rights of citizens who are at least claiming to be innocent.

Yeah the person being pursued initiates the pursuit!!   That shit makes a lot of sense, provided you have grown up on a steady stream of police-state sanctioned entertainment and a healthy dose of your daily do-no-think-for-yourself cereal.   

"Your honor, he started it.  He was moving away from me and taunted my with his tongue out.  I had no choice but to endanger the populace and initiate violence at huge cost to citizens and taxpayers.  It looked good on TV though from the helicopter eh? ". 

"Yes Officer, it did.  I see your gang uniform is in good condition and you are in good standing with the local cocaine import association.  I also cannot stand that any of our citizens would continue to go about their business even when they see or don't see one of you armed gang members telling them to do otherwise for any or no reason.  Clearly all violence against him for considering to go about his business is justified"

 

[DublinBrian]

I had clearly surrendered before he got up to me, i had all my property from my pockets out in front of me - at least a couple of feet away.

The dog handler - Kayne Cording asks what i was doing, I said loudly over the dog barking - I surrender.

Thats when he put the dog onto me, and ive lost half my thigh muscle after 4 surgeries.

I think the OP is the victim here. If he had already surrendered, then the cop had no right to set the dog on him. Especially, if the arrest was for a non-violent crime, ie traffic violations.

QuantumKiwi, your website is currently down. Can you post a picture of the cop Kayne Cording here. He deserves to be publicly shamed for that act of violence on you.

[casascius]

Yeah the person being pursued initiates the pursuit!!   That shit makes a lot of sense, provided you have grown up on a steady stream of police-state sanctioned entertainment and a healthy dose of your daily do-no-think-for-yourself cereal.    

Um, no, police really do have a legal authority to pull people over based on actual law and not fiction.  And citizens have a likewise real legal obligation to stop.  I know this is the bitcoin forums and all, and we discuss electronic money that is largely out of reach of the law, and there's a large consensus that law and governments are overreaching as a rule, but I think you're confusing this with a forum where people believe there should be no laws or law enforcement of any kind.

[casascius]

I think you're missing the point. Nobody's denying that he made a mistake. However, I don't want to live in a violent society where the punishment is worse than the crime, and the "law enforcement" are the real criminals.

The biggest and baddest thing you could do to help achieve that goal is to promote to ordinary people that they should have hidden dash-cams of their own so they can hold the police officers accountable for their action.  There is nothing that puts out-of-line police in their place like a smoking gun YouTube video with millions of hits, and technology has finally brought us DVR's smaller than a silver dollar with gigs of memory and days of recording time for the cost of a few nights' eating out.

I believe you can buy dash-cams like that for bitcoin.

[malevolent]

What the police should have done is gotten close enough to take a picture of his car's number plate, or at least memorise it, then pull back and abandon the pursuit. Then afterwards they can go round to his house and talk to his mum about letting her son borrow the car after 10pm. What if the crash had been fatal? Serves him right??

What if the car was stolen?
What if the registration plate was stolen / falsified / etc.?
What if he had a corpse lying in his trunk (hence his fleeing)?

[malevolent]

I think you're missing the point. Nobody's denying that he made a mistake. However, I don't want to live in a violent society where the punishment is worse than the crime, and the "law enforcement" are the real criminals.

The biggest and baddest thing you could do to help achieve that goal is to promote to ordinary people that they should have hidden dash-cams of their own so they can hold the police officers accountable for their action.  There is nothing that puts out-of-line police in their place like a smoking gun YouTube video with millions of hits, and technology has finally brought us DVR's smaller than a silver dollar with gigs of recording time.

What's wrong with recording them?? If they know they can be recorded they will probably try to be more complaint with the law they enforce. Now that is a good thing (unless the evidence is not enough to bring them to justice).

[casascius]

I think you're missing the point. Nobody's denying that he made a mistake. However, I don't want to live in a violent society where the punishment is worse than the crime, and the "law enforcement" are the real criminals.

The biggest and baddest thing you could do to help achieve that goal is to promote to ordinary people that they should have hidden dash-cams of their own so they can hold the police officers accountable for their action.  There is nothing that puts out-of-line police in their place like a smoking gun YouTube video with millions of hits, and technology has finally brought us DVR's smaller than a silver dollar with gigs of recording time.

What's wrong with recording them?? If they know they can be recorded they will probably try to be more complaint with the law they enforce. Now that is a good thing (unless the evidence is not enough to bring them to justice).

By "baddest" I don't mean worst - I mean how m-w.com defines bad as 10. bad·der bad·dest slang a: GOOD, GREAT b: TOUGH, MEAN

[hashman]

Yeah the person being pursued initiates the pursuit!!   That shit makes a lot of sense, provided you have grown up on a steady stream of police-state sanctioned entertainment and a healthy dose of your daily do-no-think-for-yourself cereal.    

Um, no, police really do have a legal authority to pull people over based on actual law and not fiction.  And citizens have a likewise real legal obligation to stop.  I know this is the bitcoin forums and all, and we discuss electronic money that is largely out of reach of the law, and there's a large consensus that law and governments are overreaching as a rule, but I think you're confusing this with a forum where people believe there should be no laws or law enforcement of any kind.

Hmm would you like a glass of we-love-jackbooted-authoritarianism to go with that?  

I was hoping to discuss ideas, reason, justice, mathematics..  that kind of stuff.  I didn't come here looking for an "actual law" written down by your favorite authority figure to be the be-all and end-all.  If that's the way you want to go, you are 100% right.  There are legal obligations and yes, legally many can kill us with impunity and often initiate costly and violent vehicular pursuit for little or no gain.  But hey it's the law so everything's in order.  That guy with the injuries, those pedestrians and motorists with injuries, this big bill I'm giving you to pay for it:  all legal.  His fault, because some well connected guy in a funny hat wrote it down.

        

[malevolent]

By "baddest" I don't mean worst - I mean how m-w.com defines bad as 10. bad·der bad·dest slang a: GOOD, GREAT b: TOUGH, MEAN

OK, thanks for clarification.

why do I take everything so literally lol

[casascius]

I didn't come here looking for an "actual law" written down by your favorite authority figure to be the be-all and end-all.  If that's the way you want to go, you are 100% right.

The law in question (right of law enforcement officers to stop drivers and obligations of citizens to stop) enjoys near unanimous support in just about every civilized society.  If we want to start talking about well-connected men in funny hats, it's better to make examples out of laws that are actually harmful and have a sizable dissent in tow (such as marijuana laws, or laws meant to "protect" air travelers, or election campaign/finance/districting laws, or, drumroll, banking laws).

[hashman]

I didn't come here looking for an "actual law" written down by your favorite authority figure to be the be-all and end-all.  If that's the way you want to go, you are 100% right.

The law in question (right of law enforcement officers to stop drivers and obligations of citizens to stop) enjoys near unanimous support in just about every civilized society.  If we want to start talking about well-connected men in funny hats, it's better to make examples out of laws that are actually harmful and have a sizable dissent in tow (such as marijuana laws, or laws meant to "protect" air travelers, or election campaign/finance/districting laws, or, drumroll, banking laws).

Thanks for your replies Casascius.  

Ah, civilized society, nice word.  After all if you can't kill innocent women and children by calling them terrorists or claiming they ran away, You can't call yourself a civilized country can you?

You seem quite good at examining security from a variety of different use-case perspectives.  Can't you imagine some problems with this "right of law enforcement officers to stop drivers"  law ?  


  

[Borzoi]

I do not know New Zealand corruption but do slightly remember USSR before family emigrated.  Moved to Egypt and then to USA.

USA has police corruption but it is agreed to be bad.  If caught on video, police shamed.

In Egypt, police hit and beat people.  If people report, family head is beaten.  Message is very clear that police may be bad, but like dogs or sharks.  Do not provoke.

In USSR, police are right.  Law?  Unless police are waving USA flag and shouting "Down with Marx-Lenin!" or not doing what bosses say, they are always right.

I have been to many places in Asia, Africa.  Some places, police is job for those who cannot have other job.  People beat up police some places.  Other places, police make money from terror of other people.

When my family come to USA, was easy to get asylum because left USSR when grandfather tortured and maimed by police (you call "KGB").  People today often come to USA for asylum reasons, too, due to police pursuit through country.  Small country such as New Zealand, if police continue to attack, example of reason for asylum in USA or other country.  Tough to prove from British Empire, though.

I would be interested to read police "charging document" regarding case.  How did police describe your car pursuit, your foot pursuit (not smart), your "surrender"?

Sorry, emotional about police violence and English becomes right-word-worse-grammar in my head.  Grandfather lost eye and cut nostril bigger and other things.