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Author Topic: Bitcoin Mining Pool List  (Read 4420 times)
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organofcorti
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July 12, 2015, 12:06:07 PM
 #21

How about listing those pools that are churning out empty blocks & therefor not contributing to the Bitcoin Network?

We will continue do SPV mining despite the incident, and I think so will AntPool and BTC China.

Another very good reason people should not mine on Chinese pools.  This is EXTREMELY bad for the Bitcoin network.

It would help miners make a more ethical decision about what pool to use & also help decentralize the hash power away from the bigger pools who aren't towing the line  Wink

Do you have any data on percentage of empty blocks per pool?

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
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p3yot33at3r
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July 12, 2015, 12:21:48 PM
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I've read various figures scattered around the forum, you'd definitely have a better idea than I on how to acquire that kind of info - your expertise is a few divisions above mine..... Cheesy Wink
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July 12, 2015, 04:42:42 PM
 #23

Just going to point out that the quote above with my comment on SPV mining is not directly related to 1tx blocks.  You can do 1tx blocks without SPV mining.

I do think that 1tx blocks are completely stupid and bad for network health, but SPV mining is at the malicious level of recklessness.

RIP BTC Guild, April 2011 - June 2015
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July 12, 2015, 04:47:35 PM
 #24

Just going to point out that the quote above with my comment on SPV mining is not directly related to 1tx blocks.  You can do 1tx blocks without SPV mining.

I do think that 1tx blocks are completely stupid and bad for network health, but SPV mining is at the malicious level of recklessness.

Thanks for clarifying that eleuthria - if you'd like me to add/edit the quote in any way, just let me know - it's not my intention to mislead or misquote anyone  Wink
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July 12, 2015, 10:02:43 PM
 #25

How about listing those pools that are churning out empty blocks & therefor not contributing to the Bitcoin Network?

We will continue do SPV mining despite the incident, and I think so will AntPool and BTC China.

Another very good reason people should not mine on Chinese pools.  This is EXTREMELY bad for the Bitcoin network.

It would help miners make a more ethical decision about what pool to use & also help decentralize the hash power away from the bigger pools who aren't towing the line  Wink

Do you have any data on percentage of empty blocks per pool?
I think these are both valuable to disclose - SPV mining and empty blocks.

Empty blocks at least someone has already done an analysis on this thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1085800.0

Updated for blocks in 2015 up to block 365,401:


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organofcorti
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July 12, 2015, 10:14:41 PM
 #26

How about listing those pools that are churning out empty blocks & therefor not contributing to the Bitcoin Network?

We will continue do SPV mining despite the incident, and I think so will AntPool and BTC China.

Another very good reason people should not mine on Chinese pools.  This is EXTREMELY bad for the Bitcoin network.

It would help miners make a more ethical decision about what pool to use & also help decentralize the hash power away from the bigger pools who aren't towing the line  Wink

Do you have any data on percentage of empty blocks per pool?
I think these are both valuable to disclose - SPV mining and empty blocks.

Empty blocks at least someone has already done an analysis on this thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1085800.0

Updated for blocks in 2015 up to block 365,401:


I think number of 1 tx blocks should be a) per n blocks solved by entity rather than by time period to reduce variance, and b) be normalised by the size of the tx queue at the time the block was solved.

b) is hard and I haven't figured out a good way to do that yet. I think I should be able to use my mempool, but how do I determine the number of tx in mempool when the block was solved? Just use the local maxima before I got the block notification?

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
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eleuthria
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July 12, 2015, 10:21:51 PM
 #27

I think number of 1 tx blocks should be a) per n blocks solved by entity rather than by time period to reduce variance, and b) be normalised by the size of the tx queue at the time the block was solved.

b) is hard and I haven't figured out a good way to do that yet. I think I should be able to use my mempool, but how do I determine the number of tx in mempool when the block was solved? Just use the local maxima before I got the block notification?

I don't see much point in B.  I doubt there has been a time in 2015 where a block has ever been solved with the mempool being *empty* of valid transactions that the pool would not include if it were operating without purposely making empty blocks to make up for poor optimization.

Similarly, I don't see why A would matter much when it's already being expressed as a percentage of their blocks solved.  The network is so big at this point that it is virtually impossible for a pool to have an empty memory pool.  Pools don't push out block templates every time they see a new transaction, so the only way it could possibly happen is if the pool pushes out a block template including their entire memory pool, and a miner solves the block, sends it back to the pool, the pool verifies it, and broadcasts that block clearing their entire memory pool before a single new transaction arrives.  Yes, it could happen, but the likelihood of that event happening enough to actually taint your results seems slim-to-none.

RIP BTC Guild, April 2011 - June 2015
organofcorti
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July 12, 2015, 10:41:52 PM
 #28

I think number of 1 tx blocks should be a) per n blocks solved by entity rather than by time period to reduce variance, and b) be normalised by the size of the tx queue at the time the block was solved.

b) is hard and I haven't figured out a good way to do that yet. I think I should be able to use my mempool, but how do I determine the number of tx in mempool when the block was solved? Just use the local maxima before I got the block notification?

I don't see much point in B.  I doubt there has been a time in 2015 where a block has ever been solved with the mempool being *empty* of valid transactions that the pool would not include if it were operating without purposely making empty blocks to make up for poor optimization.

There were times not so long ago this year when the Statoshi dashboard clearly showed dips to close to zero tx in mempool after a few very short interblock durations. the point is that creating a 1 tx block is clearly more a egregious action when there are ten thousand waiting tx than just a few.

Similarly, I don't see why A would matter much when it's already being expressed as a percentage of their blocks solved.

Variance. Same as the reason why I prefer to treat orphaned blocks the same way - variance should be the same for everyone which make anomalies much harder to hide, and this can only happen if you summarise thedata over similar numbers of blocks.


Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
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sloopy
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July 15, 2015, 05:16:46 PM
 #29

How about listing those pools that are churning out empty blocks & therefor not contributing to the Bitcoin Network?

We will continue do SPV mining despite the incident, and I think so will AntPool and BTC China.

Another very good reason people should not mine on Chinese pools.  This is EXTREMELY bad for the Bitcoin network.

It would help miners make a more ethical decision about what pool to use & also help decentralize the hash power away from the bigger pools who aren't towing the line  Wink

Do you have any data on percentage of empty blocks per pool?
I think these are both valuable to disclose - SPV mining and empty blocks.

Empty blocks at least someone has already done an analysis on this thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1085800.0

Updated for blocks in 2015 up to block 365,401:


I am happy to see you guys being the voices of reason with these issues. The people running Antpool and F2Pool sure aren't, and the only way they will is if we are somehow able to get more attention paid to these problems.
Like the Fork of July and the issues with transactions not being processed.

Transaction fees go to the pools and the pools decide to pay them to the miners. Anything else, including off-chain solutions are stealing and not the way Bitcoin was intended to function.
Make the block size set by the pool. Pool = miners and they get the choice.
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