What does this community think of this idea...

[drknow012]

A while back I made a website to generate bitcoins, the coins were worth about $5 a piece at the time. The website was basically designed to earn a commission off of competitive 1 on 1 gaming. The players would agree to a wager set by the game host. Once the wager is agreed upon, they would compete in a match to determine who would collect the total in the escrow. After the game was resolved, I, the creator of the website, would collect a commission, and the winner would receive the rest of the amount in the escrow. Now... the idea was solid and doable, and it received mostly good feedback... but then something went wrong with the transaction protocols within the code, and I really didn't have the motivation to fix it. So, basically, I gave up on it, just as it was starting to gain attraction from this community. The reason is pretty much because I just didn't want to anymore. I lost interest...

So I've been thinking recently... bitcoins used to be worth next to nothing, and at that time, people would have to buy large amounts to have anything substantial. Then, the value of the coins rose drastically. Now, I'm wondering what is going on with those of us who bought in this circuit when it was just starting... they must be doing pretty well for themselves. So... I want to set something up, basically like kick-starter. You could post videos, essays, anything you wanted to express your idea. And just like the show "Shark Tank", there would be a panel of investors. They could remain anonymous, but still voice their concerns about the idea, critique the weak ends of the proposal, and of course buy a percentage of the ownership and invest. My approach would be entirely humanitarian though, and I think that is something that is lacking in this aspect of anonymous fiscal operations. Also, that's pretty much the reason why I forewent the development of the chess site. I didn't see anything positive or productive, all-be-it an interesting idea, and I think I am capable of something better, with the proper resources at my disposal.

To avoid failure of this idea, the people requesting these funds would have to offer some kind of collateral, or sign a contract obligating them to do what they are proposing. The investors, however, would not. They would be entirely anonymous, but still have a legitimate stake in the project or operation. I would want this to be entirely legalized. There has to be contractual obligations for the people requesting funds from the "Sharks". I am fully capable of developing a project like this, and I think it would be a good opportunity for creative people who lack the skills and resources necessary to make the world (or just this community) a better place.

Thanks, and sorry to those of you who wanted to see the chess site progress.

(Constructive feedback please)

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[the_thing]

It is a good idea.

However, people can (and do) make business proposal on the forum, so this would be nothing new. Also, I fail to understand why investors wouldn't be able to express their opinions and/or ask questions. It would be a great disadvantage.

Care to explain the value of your project for the community?

[Spekulatius]

There are already kickstarter like websites that accept bitcoin (although lacking traffic).

[drknow012]

My approach would be entirely humanitarian though, and I think that is something that is lacking in this aspect of anonymous fiscal operations.

Quick edit: Just to be clear about that part, I would not limit the projects to humanitarian only, that's just what I would do. Any thing is acceptable, whether it be profits and dividends for the investors, or feeding the homeless and developing medical technology. I am also capable of hosting a .onion url from my local machine thus to provide security and anonymity to all users of the site, sharks and fish alike; although it would be difficult to hold those who abuse the system responsible for their actions. But that's the main purpose of this thread. I want people to help me think of ways to protect the anonymous investors above all things. They would be the bread and butter of this project.

[the_thing]

My approach would be entirely humanitarian though, and I think that is something that is lacking in this aspect of anonymous fiscal operations.

Quick edit: Just to be clear about that part, I would not limit the projects to humanitarian only, that's just what I would do. Any thing is acceptable, whether it be profits and dividends for the investors, or feeding the homeless and developing medical technology. I am also capable of hosting a .onion url from my local machine thus to provide security and anonymity to all users of the site, sharks and fish alike; although it would be difficult to hold those who abuse the system responsible for their actions. But that's the main purpose of this thread. I want people to help me think of ways to protect the anonymous investors above all things. They would be the bread and butter of this project.

The problem with Bitcoin investments (in general, not just in your case) is that you have to offer high interest to make it more attractive for investors than just hoarding bitcoins. But this makes it worse than a bank loan. Thus, if someone asks for money on bitcoin forums or kickstarters, it must be because he/she can't borrow money from a bank or other conventional sources. Now, there are several possible reasons for this, but most of them are negative for possible investors.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Which is why options or some other mechanism of hedging are essential for the growth of Bitcoin to provide "realistic" interest rates.

[drknow012]

Also, I fail to understand why investors wouldn't be able to express their opinions and/or ask questions. It would be a great disadvantage.

Care to explain the value of your project for the community?

I think you misunderstood, the site would allow for total and complete anonymity for the investors, "but they would still be able to voice their concerns and critique the weak points of the project"

And I am aware that this is not an original idea, but I think I can simply do it better. For instance, establishing liability for the recipients of the investments through contractual agreements. Example: A representative can be selected to act as the legal identity for the "sharks" and he/she would be responsible (and obligated) for ensuring the money is being used for what it is supposed to be used for, and that any return on the investment would be sent to a designated bitcoin address.

Thus, if someone asks for money on bitcoin forums or kickstarters, it must be because he/she can't borrow money from a bank or other conventional sources.

Sometimes that is a fact of life that cannot be changed, weather due to fiscal irresonsibility at an early age, or just plain bad luck. I think we have an opportunity to use this "crypto-currency" to benefit everyone (being that it is unregulated) instead of those just interested in making a profit or getting a return on their investment. How many people can honestly say they think their current banking system is fair, and is not being used to as a catalyst to fuel immoral and selfish principals in business and economics? I think the bitcoin is our salvation, a chance to spawn a new form of fiscal practices, and in the proper hands, can literally save humanity.

[drknow012]

"Well that escalated quickly...?"

Maybe I am mistaken on some key levels to make this a success, but that does not mean that I am not capable of creating something that we can all agree upon. Please don't let my opinions stagnate this thread. I'm just trying to make something worth putting my time into... and if I embarrass myself in the process, please try not to judge me on it.

[markm]

Don't such sites already exist, in the forms of the securities section, loans section, and long term loans sections of these forums?

-MarkM-

[the_thing]

I think you misunderstood, the site would allow for total and complete anonymity for the investors, "but they would still be able to voice their concerns and critique the weak points of the project"

Sorry, I stand corrected.

And I am aware that this is not an original idea, but I think I can simply do it better. For instance, establishing liability for the recipients of the investments through contractual agreements. Example: A representative can be selected to act as the legal identity for the "sharks" and he/she would be responsible (and obligated) for ensuring the money is being used for what it is supposed to be used for, and that any return on the investment would be sent to a designated bitcoin address.

Who, could be such a representative? Only the original entrepreuner has control over his project and its finances.

Sometimes that is a fact of life that cannot be changed, weather due to fiscal irresonsibility at an early age, or just plain bad luck. I think we have an opportunity to use this "crypto-currency" to benefit everyone (being that it is unregulated) instead of those just interested in making a profit or getting a return on their investment. How many people can honestly say they think their current banking system is fair, and is not being used to as a catalyst to fuel immoral and selfish principals in business and economics? I think the bitcoin is our salvation, a chance to spawn a new form of fiscal practices, and in the proper hands, can literally save humanity.

Granted, sometimes good projects are rejected for wrong reasons. But I think banks rarely have overly tight risk management. As we have seen in last few years, they usually risk too much. So if they refuse to finance a project, they usually have good reasons.



Please, don't get me wrong. I like your idea, because this is exactly something Bitcoin. Financial infrastructre is essential for a currency. And if your idea works, it would be a great contribution. I'm just trying to find all possible flaws in your idea. I'm taking a position of a devil's advocate.

[evoorhees]

Honestly, I like your first idea - the competitive 1 on 1 gaming and betting.

If you'd like to create it, I might be willing to invest. Send me a PM.

[finkleshnorts]

I would LOVE to see a multiplayer Stratego website where bitcoins can be wagered. Stratego is a game for humans; AI is very weak for this game. It could be provably fair, too. If the operator tried to screw over the players, it would be immediately evident.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_complexity#Complexities_of_some_well-known_games

[drknow012]

I would LOVE to see a multiplayer Stratego website where bitcoins can be wagered. Stratego is a game for humans; AI is very weak for this game. It could be provably fair, too. If the operator tried to screw over the players, it would be immediately evident.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_complexity#Complexities_of_some_well-known_games

You know, that's not the first time I head that. I discussed the chess site on a previous thread a few months ago, when I was still working on it, and I had someone mention the idea to me. I remember looking into the dynamics of the game, and from what I gathered, it seemed doable. Now... how much would you "love" to see it?

(Please don't let this distract from the original idea of the thread. And please, stop telling me there are already sites like this. I want to make one that is better... Constructive feedback only please)

[repentance]

Shark Tank is similar to the UK show Dragon's Den, if I'm not mistaken.  If so, the investors seek equity in exchange for their investment and they require a lot of hard numbers as well as substantial evidence of any claims.  Angel List is probably the internet equivalent for getting real entrepreneurs to invest in things.  Those types of investors tend to have a set plan of when they want to exit and how.

Kickstarter and Prosper are probably better places to look if you want lenders who are going to pretty much let you do your own thing so perhaps you should look at their models.  Prosper is semi-anonymous.

[drknow012]

Financial infrastructre is essential for a currency.

I very much agree with that, and that idea has been in my mind ever since I educated myself on bitcoin practices. The most valuable trait about the bitcoin is not only it's anonymity, but the fact that it is not, and cannot be regulated by the federal government. (Cannot only lasts as long as we fight and work for that to remain true btw...) As a point of interest, the legal structure in the United States has been amended countless times in effort to manipulate and control the flow of financial operations and establish wealth for deliberately targeted individuals, thus we have the infamous 1%... with an unregulated currency using anonymity as its backbone, we can ensure that the system is not only fair, but abundantly so. In modern financial practices, one must establish credit through years, decades even, of monotonous and trivial measures of financial responsibility. Then we have those who simply inherit wealth from their predecessor(s). Not only that, we have a legal infrastructure that provides the most powerful and resourceful entities on the planet (corporations) a legal obligation to act on any opportunity to ignore any responsibilities to the health of it's consumers (and the planet they live on) and pursue only the course that would ensure the maximum possible profits for the share-holders the law will allow...

This is a crash course for disaster, and the evidence is all around us if we care enough to look. We are constantly trying to out-run a system intended and designed to keep most of us sick, stupid, and starving. Until now, it was nearly impossible to gather the resources necessary to put an end to this, because we were all losing the battle. The only way to survive was to simply lose less than everyone else, which inevitably leads to the destruction of our own morals and principals, the same ones that guided us as children, before we learned the ways of this world and had to compromise them to survive. But what if everyone was winning, and the goal was to simply "WIN MORE WHILE BEING LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO ENSURE EVERYONE ELSE WAS WINNING AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE"

To put it another way,

Code:

profits != win

profits are simply resources. As humans, we convert natural resources into anything we can imagine. As most of us tend to believe, you can buy pretty much anything with enough money. So... why don't we focus our "crypto-currency" regulations towards something new and better, the next natural step of economic evolution (or revolution). What that is exactly, I still don't know, and I try not to pretend to. But I do think one thing is clear to me, incentives for the masses, and not the few, sounds pretty nice to me. Just remember, it's still a fairy tale as long as there is one person in the circuit who is suffering and treated unjustly. We are human beings... the only thing stopping us is ourselves.