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Author Topic: EU Banks Forced to Report Bitcoin-Linked Accounts Transacting Over €1,000  (Read 1499 times)
Robin_Good
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June 24, 2015, 02:44:24 PM
 #1



An anonymous Dutch bank employee has revealed that major banks in the EU are applying new rules forcing banks to report,
monitor or investigate accounts receiving or sending over €1,000 connected to bitcoin.

The anonymous user identifies himself as a bank employee within the Dutch banking system. Referencing a memo seen
in the bank offices, the user describes how accounts receiving more than €1,000 from known bitcoin-linked accounts
should be subject to increased scrutiny, and reported.
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Amph
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June 24, 2015, 02:53:12 PM
 #2

well it was bound to happen, but i think it's time to start to use decentralized exchange, if you still want to preserve a portion of your anonimity

and what about other coins exchanged? what if i convert litecoin instead? they will not check my transactions?
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June 24, 2015, 02:57:44 PM
 #3

It says any single transaction, or series of apparently linked transactions over a total of EUR 1,000 must be reported.

Quote
Member States shall apply a maximum threshold per customer and single transaction, whether the transaction is carried out in a single operation or in several operations which appear to be linked. That threshold shall be established at national level...... and shall not exceed EUR 1,000.

How do they work out if a series of transactions are linked and over the EUR 1,000 limit?

It goes on to say any account receiving over €10,500 EUR a year must be reported, but not what gap between transactions qualifies them as not being linked.

Quote
We also have to flag accounts who have received more than €10,500 EUR / yr (outside of salary)
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June 24, 2015, 03:10:29 PM
 #4

well it was bound to happen, but i think it's time to start to use decentralized exchange, if you still want to preserve a portion of your anonimity

and what about other coins exchanged? what if i convert litecoin instead? they will not check my transactions?

Litecoin not affected  Tongue





(...i guess they are watching all the main currencies)

Hollingsworth
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June 28, 2015, 03:55:27 AM
 #5

So what European banks are saying to bitcoiners: don't do business with us.

As i have posted in this forum recently... the country that is markets itself as a safe haven for bitcoin businesses is sitting on a goldmine.
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June 28, 2015, 04:01:03 AM
 #6

It says any single transaction, or series of apparently linked transactions over a total of EUR 1,000 must be reported.

Quote
Member States shall apply a maximum threshold per customer and single transaction, whether the transaction is carried out in a single operation or in several operations which appear to be linked. That threshold shall be established at national level...... and shall not exceed EUR 1,000.

How do they work out if a series of transactions are linked and over the EUR 1,000 limit?

It goes on to say any account receiving over €10,500 EUR a year must be reported, but not what gap between transactions qualifies them as not being linked.

Quote
We also have to flag accounts who have received more than €10,500 EUR / yr (outside of salary)


you answered your first question with the second..

basically if they know the bank details of bitstamp and coinbase. then any customer who transfers to those accounts are flagged as 'bitcoin related'.. then using the same old protocols they have used for decades, (the amount flags). they filter and tally up transfer amounts to individul recipients..
thus if you transfered Eur30 each day, everyday for a year, it would tally to be over the 10500 a year being sent to a known bitcoin exchange
also if you sent Eur30 each day for just over a month, the Eur1000 flag would be hit.
its not that hard for banks to filter transactions by recipient and then total the transaction values..

the amount flags. are the same 'wire transfer' regulation amounts that the EU has been using for decades.. its nothing new.. the only difference is the 'bitcoin related' flag..

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June 28, 2015, 04:02:38 AM
 #7

Litecoin not affected  Tongue

You are wrong. Bitcoin-linked accounts refers to those bank accounts which are being held by Bitcoin-exchanges and other crypto-based ventures. Even if you convert your BTC to LTC, and then sell these Litecoins to €€€€ (using Bitstamp or BTC-e), the banks will still report the cash deposit to the authorities, as it came from an account which is being held by a Bitcoin exchange.

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June 28, 2015, 04:33:46 AM
 #8

crazy shit... good read!
Seldoon182
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June 28, 2015, 04:35:04 AM
 #9

In France the 1 000€ limit in cash is also about Electronic payment system such as Bitcoin: http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000030784456

Quote
le décret abaisse le seuil de paiement en espèces ou au moyen de monnaie électronique à 1 000 euros, au lieu de 3 000 euros, lorsque le débiteur est résident en France.

But lel fuck them.
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July 02, 2015, 01:14:53 AM
 #10

In France the 1 000€ limit in cash is also about Electronic payment system such as Bitcoin: http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000030784456

Yes but this limit is not for Bitcoin (Bank of France said).



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July 02, 2015, 01:22:22 AM
 #11

It is interesting to see that banks are attaching enough importance to Bitcoin to track such transactions separately.
What they probably don't realize that if somebody really wants to hide his Bitcoin tracks, it is very easy to do so.

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July 02, 2015, 04:47:58 AM
 #12

well i guess this was expected of them. and i would be very surprised if other countries especially US banks don't monitor their customer's accounts for bitcoin related purchases.
with all the criminal activities that were associated with bitcoin, they have to do that.

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July 02, 2015, 05:06:19 AM
 #13

well i guess this was expected of them. and i would be very surprised if other countries especially US banks don't monitor their customer's accounts for bitcoin related purchases.
with all the criminal activities that were associated with bitcoin, they have to do that.

damn with all this monitoring going on you feel like there nothing you can do with out them knowing anything, no sense of peace in either the internet, economy or life, bitcoin for then most be really scary to have set such a low number of 1k euro.
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July 02, 2015, 05:54:22 AM
 #14

I spoke to a Bank manager friend of mine about this a few months ago, and he acknowledged that any amount bigger than €1,000 that are being deposited into a bank, are being flagged. It standard practice for fiat cash too. {They then target the user with phone calls to invest it, into other products provided by the banks}

Some of this information is also given to the Tax authorities {Well acctually they are linked automatically}  Sad

I would not be too worried about this... It looks to be linked to standard AML/KYC practices.  Sad

 

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July 02, 2015, 06:38:11 AM
 #15

Agree with above poster, this has been standard practise for fiat in most countries and banks.

Just one of the ways used by the tax authorities to collect data on people and by doing so to build profiles which are then matched to the submitted tax returns. These profiles help them to flag discrepancies which are then investigated. An example will be where a person for example declares a gross income of say $10,000 for the year yet the data available shows he has received deposits amounting to over $100,000.....
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July 02, 2015, 10:00:09 AM
 #16

The post has been taken down... Is this news true or just based on rumors? If it's true, that's just a shame...
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July 02, 2015, 10:05:51 AM
 #17

You are wrong. Bitcoin-linked accounts refers to those bank accounts which are being held by Bitcoin-exchanges and other crypto-based ventures. Even if you convert your BTC to LTC, and then sell these Litecoins to €€€€ (using Bitstamp or BTC-e), the banks will still report the cash deposit to the authorities, as it came from an account which is being held by a Bitcoin exchange.
Exactly. It states "connected to bitcoin", without any definition of that. Litecoin is connected to Bitcoin, and usually trades in similar exchanges.
Anyone thinking that their altcoin will save them from this is just deluded.

The post has been taking down... Is this news true or just based on rumors? If it's true, that's just a shame...
The post looks like it is still down. I'm not sure how credible "An anonymous Dutch bank employee" is. Without an official statement from related parties this might be completely false.
However, I do see this being quite possible. Luckily for anyone who wants to avoid this, there are always cash transactions. Use localbitcoins and sell when you want to.

What else interests me is that it states sending or receiving more than €1,000. Does this include one time transactions that are bigger than €1,000 or the total sum?
In the first case one could easily cheat them by sending smaller amounts.


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July 02, 2015, 10:10:07 AM
 #18

Simple way around this - Just sell BTC for cash on localbitcoins in face to face meets. Set up a faux business like a car wash or taxi driver & launder your cash through that. Obviously declare whatever little amount you want to Grin. They'll never know you have anything to do with BTC.

There are always ways around every rule, as long as you're not selling hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of BTC a year & trying to launder it all you should be ok.

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July 02, 2015, 10:22:18 AM
 #19

You are wrong. Bitcoin-linked accounts refers to those bank accounts which are being held by Bitcoin-exchanges and other crypto-based ventures. Even if you convert your BTC to LTC, and then sell these Litecoins to €€€€ (using Bitstamp or BTC-e), the banks will still report the cash deposit to the authorities, as it came from an account which is being held by a Bitcoin exchange.
Exactly. It states "connected to bitcoin", without any definition of that. Litecoin is connected to Bitcoin, and usually trades in similar exchanges.
Anyone thinking that their altcoin will save them from this is just deluded.

The post has been taking down... Is this news true or just based on rumors? If it's true, that's just a shame...
The post looks like it is still down. I'm not sure how credible "An anonymous Dutch bank employee" is. Without an official statement from related parties this might be completely false.
However, I do see this being quite possible. Luckily for anyone who wants to avoid this, there are always cash transactions. Use localbitcoins and sell when you want to.

What else interests me is that it states sending or receiving more than €1,000. Does this include one time transactions that are bigger than €1,000 or the total sum?
In the first case one could easily cheat them by sending smaller amounts.

The news report is true. If the news itself is true or not, I don't know... meanwhile I've found the post where the news originated from. As you can see it's marked as speculation. so let's just take it with a grain of salt.
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July 02, 2015, 10:31:57 AM
 #20

If they use that information in a bad way for their customers, the customers will simply start buying bitcoins more locally, which will in the end benefit bitcoin
because they won't be able to enforce any more rules to that kind of market, but on the other hand, it will also lower the amount of people investing in it.

Are there any measures that are enforced upon users that have bitcoin linked accounts?
I fall into the category also, but did not receive nor observe anything out or ordinary on my account,
and when i called my bank,they stated that they are not monitoring bitcoin related accounts. They do however have the anti money laundering points that they are reporting tho.

cheers

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