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maxcarjuzaa
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September 16, 2012, 12:14:22 AM
 #1

OK PPcoin implements 51% protection but where is the value comming from?

Anyone can launch their own 51% protected coin, so where is the value of the coin?

PPcoin could be the only 51% protected coin, but for how long?

Just thinking about it. I am not against ppcoin or any other project.
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September 16, 2012, 12:34:03 AM
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September 16, 2012, 12:59:00 AM
 #3

Anyone selling PPCoins for DeVCoins? If so, at what price per thousand PPCoins and at what price per ten thousand PPCoins?

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September 16, 2012, 04:54:05 AM
 #4

Im going to heavily invest in ppcoin

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September 16, 2012, 05:31:16 AM
 #5

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El Cabron
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September 16, 2012, 06:39:58 AM
 #6

Im going to heavily invest in ppcoin

be warned, btc to ppc exchange rates are volatile and can significantly impact on your holdings also no one can predict if ppc will sink or explode. However, hedging costs right now are relatively low and due to near future events, ppc will do pretty well in my opinion.

PPcoin is only good if bitcoin is 51% attacked?

Sorry El Cabron, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
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September 16, 2012, 07:19:02 AM
 #7

Im going to heavily invest in ppcoin

be warned, btc to ppc exchange rates are volatile and can significantly impact on your holdings also no one can predict if ppc will sink or explode. However, hedging costs right now are relatively low and due to near future events, ppc will do pretty well in my opinion.

What's to stop a clone of it being created and diluting its market?

PPC is an experiment just like the rest. You can't buy anything with PCC currently.

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September 16, 2012, 07:31:03 AM
 #8

Actually a common complaint I get about the alt currencies is that you can't sell anything for it currently, or at least if there are people who have an altcoin budget to buy something or other with they are being extremely secretive as to what exactly it is they are looking to buy how much of for how many of which altcoin.

It is apparently daunting to try to figure out how to establish a cashflow of an altcoin when the people looking to provide altcoins (that is, to spend altcoins) are not revealing what exactly it is that they are willing to provide them in return for.

If for example someone making enough PPCoins daily that they think they ought to be able to budget a cup of coffee a day with those coins, it would be nice if they would reveal that fact, so that people looking to obtain a cashflow of PPCoins can look into whether providing a cup of coffee daily would be, to them, a reasonable method of obtaining a steady daily flow of coins.

Basically I guess what they are in effect asking is what exactly the folk who already have an altcoin income are looking to hire people to do in return for such coins, and at what wage. Though usually they express it more in terms of their becoming independent contractors or businesspeople rather than wage-slaves. Smiley

Suggesting that they go buy the coins they seem to consider kind of silly, their retort being along the lines of "if I already managed to get some money, what for do I need their altcoins? I want their altcoins because I want money and their coins purport to be a form of money. So I am not looking to trade money I already have for them, I am looking to obtain them in order to have money, which in turn I of course would prefer not to then go and spend to buy some other kind of money..."

It seems a bit of a catch-22 or something. But if you have managed to obtain an income of altcoins then it does seem reasonable in some sense to enquire what exactly is that income earmarked for; what is it that you went out of your way to set yourself up an altcoin income to buy instead of setting yourself up some other currency of income to buy?

This is all rather awkwardly expressed, but maybe what it boils down to is that like the Internet Marketers like to point out most people think in terms of being employed by someone else to do something, not in terms of being self-employed or creating an entire business of their own. So maybe it makes sense that most of them are looking for where are the listings of how much of each coin folk who have various coins are looking to pay people to do and what is it they are looking to pay people to do.

(Though even when they do think in business terms they tend to be asking okay how much of what do you want produced/manufactured/provided and how much per what quantity are you offering...)

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September 16, 2012, 08:17:00 AM
 #9

Actually a common complaint I get about the alt currencies is that you can't sell anything for it currently, or at least if there are people who have an altcoin budget to buy something or other with they are being extremely secretive as to what exactly it is they are looking to buy how much of for how many of which altcoin.

It is apparently daunting to try to figure out how to establish a cashflow of an altcoin when the people looking to provide altcoins (that is, to spend altcoins) are not revealing what exactly it is that they are willing to provide them in return for.

If for example someone making enough PPCoins daily that they think they ought to be able to budget a cup of coffee a day with those coins, it would be nice if they would reveal that fact, so that people looking to obtain a cashflow of PPCoins can look into whether providing a cup of coffee daily would be, to them, a reasonable method of obtaining a steady daily flow of coins.

Basically I guess what they are in effect asking is what exactly the folk who already have an altcoin income are looking to hire people to do in return for such coins, and at what wage. Though usually they express it more in terms of their becoming independent contractors or businesspeople rather than wage-slaves. Smiley

Suggesting that they go buy the coins they seem to consider kind of silly, their retort being along the lines of "if I already managed to get some money, what for do I need their altcoins? I want their altcoins because I want money and their coins purport to be a form of money. So I am not looking to trade money I already have for them, I am looking to obtain them in order to have money, which in turn I of course would prefer not to then go and spend to buy some other kind of money..."

It seems a bit of a catch-22 or something. But if you have managed to obtain an income of altcoins then it does seem reasonable in some sense to enquire what exactly is that income earmarked for; what is it that you went out of your way to set yourself up an altcoin income to buy instead of setting yourself up some other currency of income to buy?

This is all rather awkwardly expressed, but maybe what it boils down to is that like the Internet Marketers like to point out most people think in terms of being employed by someone else to do something, not in terms of being self-employed or creating an entire business of their own. So maybe it makes sense that most of them are looking for where are the listings of how much of each coin folk who have various coins are looking to pay people to do and what is it they are looking to pay people to do.

(Though even when they do think in business terms they tend to be asking okay how much of what do you want produced/manufactured/provided and how much per what quantity are you offering...)

-MarkM-


I've never been secretive in my exchanges with litecoins. Bought pizzas and sold some silver and sold a couple video cards.

Who is so secretive?

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September 16, 2012, 08:44:33 AM
 #10

Its not really a deliberate attempt at secrecy just a lack of job offers I guess.

It probably does not help that a lot pf players are used to being able to walk into shops in games and ask how much the shop will pay for each item the player is carrying, as a first step toward deciding what items to go out and get to bring to the shops to sell to the shops. Smiley

Also the first question a designer asks when considering implementing money, even before working out "sinks" (ways to get money back out of the possession of the players once the players have some) is where are players going to obtain money in the first place since unless you equip them with some there is no need to provide "sinks" aka ways to get them to part with it.

I guess with PPCoin we have equipped a bunch of players with the stuff already so the next question is what are the "sinks" that will convince the specific players who have been equipped with the stuff to part with it and how are those players who are not being equipped with it by the current means of providing it to players to obtain it? Maybe with also some glimmering of a dream that possibly those players not being equipped with it by the current method could become "sinks" toward those who are equipped with it, that is, that the players who have it could maybe be convinced to become the providers of it with respect to the rest of the players.

I still think though a lot of it is just "where is the careers board where I can look up what careers these new coins are hiring in?" Smiley

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September 17, 2012, 11:27:28 AM
 #11

I think you are missing the most important thing, value, now, anyone can launch a 51% protected currency. So, no matter if ppcoin is inflationary or not because there will be new protected coins diluting ppcoin value and taking the price down under. No matter if  someone atack btc and ltc, there is no way to stop new 51% currencies hitting the market then there is no waw to sustain ppcoin price
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September 17, 2012, 12:38:37 PM
 #12

The way to sustain a currency's price is to buy it.

Any time the price of a currency whose price you wish to sustain goes down, buy more of that currency.

Nations do that with their national currencies. The Brits, Canucks, and Martians do it with their United Kingdom Britcoins (UKB), Canadian Digital Notes (CDN) and Martian BitCoins (MBC) respectively. General Mining Corp and General Retirement Funds do it with their GMC and GRF currencies too. It is pretty much normal/standard practice.

People can launch as many currencies as they choose, but if they refuse to buy it at a good price it will tend not to have a good price.

Miners who dump the coins they mine cheap are undermining the value of the coins they mine. Seems silly but that seems to be the way miners (and human nature in general maybe) are. Thus maybe miners are not the best folk to have minting coins if the coins hope to be valuable. Take a look at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html and you will see that the coins which have already been fully minted so that miners only get transaction fees not the ability/right to mint coins seem to do pretty well in terms of price. (Their problem though is how to motivate miners to mine them...)

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September 17, 2012, 11:05:00 PM
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The way to sustain a currency's price is to buy it.

Any time the price of a currency whose price you wish to sustain goes down, buy more of that currency.

Nations do that with their national currencies. The Brits, Canucks, and Martians do it with their United Kingdom Britcoins (UKB), Canadian Digital Notes (CDN) and Martian BitCoins (MBC) respectively. General Mining Corp and General Retirement Funds do it with their GMC and GRF currencies too. It is pretty much normal/standard practice.

People can launch as many currencies as they choose, but if they refuse to buy it at a good price it will tend not to have a good price.

Miners who dump the coins they mine cheap are undermining the value of the coins they mine. Seems silly but that seems to be the way miners (and human nature in general maybe) are. Thus maybe miners are not the best folk to have minting coins if the coins hope to be valuable. Take a look at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html and you will see that the coins which have already been fully minted so that miners only get transaction fees not the ability/right to mint coins seem to do pretty well in terms of price. (Their problem though is how to motivate miners to mine them...)

-MarkM-


I agree with you. So buying ppcoin today is betting to the fact that someone will try to take control of the currency and sustain its value, probably the creators (long term) and the speculators(short term), but then, you are like buying a bond, the currency has no intrinsic value like btc or ltc.

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September 18, 2012, 04:34:19 AM
 #14

It has intrinsic value just like bitcoin and litecoin. They might have a little more networking-effect value aka brand-awareness or "goodwill" currently but those are not intrinsic.

You could add namecoin and devcoin to the list too though since like litecoin they both also have a distinguishing characteristic.

DeVCoin actually has an additional distinguishing characteristic so is note purely an experiment in distribution of minted coins but also an experiment in never ending constant number of coins per block, which if you want to observe it in action on its own separate from the whole thing about the miners not getting all the coins you can observer GRouPcoin to see, so maybe GRouPcoin also belongs on the list if your list basically assigns intrinsic value to being a distinct experiment that tests the affects of a different approach to some aspect of the basic concept they all have in common.

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September 19, 2012, 01:53:30 AM
 #15

Before ppc intrinsic value used to be "no charge back" "instant" "private" "network power".... but today, is the comunity supporting the coin, , the people arround the world who likes BTC because it is a cool idea, or the ones who are fans of LTC because they were too late to BTC. It is all about people, most people here have spent a lot of effort reading, analising and they had a lot of fun mining their favorite coin and they will support that coin unless something goes wrong with the developers.

The thing with 51% atack protection is that if you can have it, everyone can have it. So could be hundreds of altcoins like PPC out there in a few months and very little money going to the "new protected altcoins" population of altcoins".

Whatever, I think PPC is a great experiment, just like any other coin. No matter wich currency wins at the end. 
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September 19, 2012, 02:27:15 AM
 #16

The thing with 51% atack protection is that if you can have it, everyone can have it. So could be hundreds of altcoins like PPC out there in a few months and very little money going to the "new protected altcoins" population of altcoins".

You probably miss the point about ppcoin project. We are not trying to solve 51% attack, as that is the nature of decentralization. We are trying to solve energy consumption as we believe decentralization does not require massive use of energy.

If by 51% protection you refer to the central checkpointing it now only serves as a bootstrapping safety measure and will be gradually weakened/eventually removed to achieve similar decentralization level of Bitcoin and Litecoin.
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September 20, 2012, 01:02:12 AM
 #17

If by 51% protection you refer to the central checkpointing it now only serves as a bootstrapping safety measure and will be gradually weakened/eventually removed to achieve similar decentralization level of Bitcoin and Litecoin.

Why don't you put it in writing now? One of the reasons Bitcoin has been successful has been the fact that the rules were fixed at day one and have not changed since then. Imagine if Satoshi had said, "50 BTC per block, and then someday I'll change it to 0 BTC when I think we have enough Bitcoins out there." How well do you think that would work?

Buy & Hold
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September 20, 2012, 01:55:56 AM
 #18

Why don't you put it in writing now? One of the reasons Bitcoin has been successful has been the fact that the rules were fixed at day one and have not changed since then. Imagine if Satoshi had said, "50 BTC per block, and then someday I'll change it to 0 BTC when I think we have enough Bitcoins out there." How well do you think that would work?
I think it's mentioned in their PPCoin paper.
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