Greek referendum

[giantdragon]

Greek prime minister Alexis Tsipras just announced referendum to ask people about proposed IMF/ECB bailout conditions.
If majority of the people will vote for, austerity measures will be implemented (pension cuts, tax increases, layoffs, privatization etc).
Otherwise Greece have to default and most likely to leave Eurozone and/or European Union altogether.

[OROBTC]

...

giantdragon

FWIW, my take on Greece is that it really does not matter in the end which route they take.  All roads lead to some version of a default.  What cannot be paid, will not be paid back.  

Greece cannot pay its debts (for various reasons, and various parties are at fault).

Zero Hedge has a new article this evening, saying that for Europe and the USA, it does not matter at all if Greece pays anything or not (they won't pay anything).  The whole "contagion meme" is wrong.  Europe and the USA will fall because of our own high debts.  I have not had a chance to think this idea over for long, but it appears to have at least merit, it is worth a read:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-26/us-europe-will-collapse-regardless-economic-contagion

[bryant.coleman]

The Europeans (I mean the troika) have to be reasonable in their demands. When they order the Greeks that they should increase the VAT on essential medicines by 25%, and make demand to Tsiparas that the small benefit which is being payed to ultra-low income pensioners to be scrapped, they can't expect the ordinary Greeks to support them.

[Possum577]

Greece has to do a better job collecting on taxes. Greek citizens have to be committed to wanting to pay taxes, to contributing to shared expenses to run that country.

But maybe the real question is, why does Greece need to be in the Eurozone? Do they need it that badly?

[LiteCoinGuy]

finally this can come to an end - hopefully. please leave!

[Amph]

Greece has to do a better job collecting on taxes. Greek citizens have to be committed to wanting to pay taxes, to contributing to shared expenses to run that country.

But maybe the real question is, why does Greece need to be in the Eurozone? Do they need it that badly?

i don't think their problem is tax evasion, increase taxes is not the solution and never will be in a situation llike this, the real solution is offering more job for everyone, and increase the GDP of your country

[electerium]

Alexis Tsipras should be given a nobel peace prize, seriously

he's not going to try and ram through a bad deal in a parliament that has already warned him that his revisions would not pass

so he just goes, fuck it no more negotiating i'm going to let my people decide


it will be amazing to see (if the referendum actually still gets to the vote) how the country decides.

Time for the greek people to put their pensions and euros where their mouth is.


fascinating powerplay decision by Tsipras.

gotta believe that Merkel might actually buckle to this because she cannot supersede Tsipras and the greek parliament. Since this goes straight to the public we're going to see how serious the eurozone is about keeping greece.

[maku]

I think calling for vote is a cheap and bad way to throw off responsibility for the situation to come. Almost every time people will vote against changes that will force them to lower their living standards. So Greek prime minister Alexis Tsipras is making an easy way out of this for himself, if people vote against and Greece will fall he will say "it's not my fault", if Greeks vote for and it will cause some sort of unrest he will say "you voted for those conditions so now don't complain"

[coininga]

[...]if people vote against and Greece will fall he will say "it's not my fault", if Greeks vote for and it will cause some sort of unrest he will say "you voted for those conditions so now don't complain"

Since this is a HUGE change for the people of Greece, the fault should fall in the hands of its people, not the politicians that might be corrupted. We all know how corrupted the other politicians in Greece are, so we might as well assume that Tsipras and/or his party's members are also corrupted.
The thing is that even though the other parties "want" Greece in the EU, they won't take some steps back. I mean if the people of a country have no jobs and no money, you can increase the VAT rate to 100% or lower it to 1%, and you'll still have virtually NO income from taxes etc.

[BillyBones]

According to me that is not the right step, if he keep asking public opinion votes then they will become accustomed with these and Greek people will demand the same as in future when Greek will rise up economically and socially, I am still sad for Greece for their unstable state.

[bryant.coleman]

I think calling for vote is a cheap and bad way to throw off responsibility for the situation to come. Almost every time people will vote against changes that will force them to lower their living standards. So Greek prime minister Alexis Tsipras is making an easy way out of this for himself, if people vote against and Greece will fall he will say "it's not my fault", if Greeks vote for and it will cause some sort of unrest he will say "you voted for those conditions so now don't complain"

Well... Tsiparas is left with few options, and I will definitely not blame him. If the troika was at least a little bit reasonable in their demands, then I'd have opposed this latest initiative from Tsiparas. But the troika is not being helpful right now. Just tell me how can the Greeks pay €8 billion per year, when their tax revenues are much lower than that. Tsiparas is trying to get help from outside, but he is unable to do so because of the EU sanctions (for example, agricultural exports to Russia, Turkish Stream.etc).

[markj113]

The Greeks were not in a position to join Europe in the first place.

The books were cooked with the help of Goldman Sachs (with a Eurozone nod) to get them in.

Greece should default, reprint the drachma and take some short term pain and regrow their country by working closer with Russia/China.

Iceland seem to be doing just fine after jailing a few bankers.

Fuck the bankers.

[chopstick]

The Greeks were not in a position to join Europe in the first place.

The books were cooked with the help of Goldman Sachs (with a Eurozone nod) to get them in.

Greece should default, reprint the drachma and take some short term pain and regrow their country by working closer with Russia/China.

Iceland seem to be doing just fine after jailing a few bankers.

Fuck the bankers.

Yeah, debt slavery doesn't usually work out well.

Grexit is the best option for them,

[Erdogan]

Greece has to do a better job collecting on taxes. Greek citizens have to be committed to wanting to pay taxes, to contributing to shared expenses to run that country.

But maybe the real question is, why does Greece need to be in the Eurozone? Do they need it that badly?

i don't think their problem is tax evasion, increase taxes is not the solution and never will be in a situation llike this, the real solution is offering more job for everyone, and increase the GDP of your country

Buying new jobs for nonexisting money? To destruct even more value? I say, remove all forms of work prohibition. Don't pay the debt, it is an illusion to think it is possible, and trying would destroy productivity. Keep using euro until something better comes by (wink wink).

Austerity is good when it is imposed on governments, for people prosperity is good. Politicians love to conflate the two.

[Erdogan]

They don't have the time.

[minecoins]

The Greeks were not in a position to join Europe in the first place.

The books were cooked with the help of Goldman Sachs (with a Eurozone nod) to get them in.

Greece should default, reprint the drachma and take some short term pain and regrow their country by working closer with Russia/China.

Iceland seem to be doing just fine after jailing a few bankers.

Fuck the bankers.

Yeah, debt slavery doesn't usually work out well.

Grexit is the best option for them,

hi guys. i was reading this post.

I am from greece. i work here and i am 32 years old..

The things here are really bad for the 70% of the ppl.. i leave in a small country that the poor phenomenon is a bit low (thank god) "you can see only the half of the town searching for food at the garbage.

[minecoins]

Now the greek ppl did nothing wrong. most ppl here pays their taxes. the problem is not that. The problem is political. every desicion thas was made wasn't for the good of the country but for politicians. Example. We took like 10 million euros for ESPA. We got nothing. all went to banks and politicians.
Also
We payed a Bunched of money for military viecles that never costed so many "the rest once more went to politicians"

All the statistics in order to enter EURO was mistaked made by sacks and our politicias (early 90's) We didn't had the economical power to join the rest of EU

[minecoins]

In the end (i cannot speak very good english)

the mosts money went to politicians (THEY GOD EVERYTHING). Every person that takes this country's leadership doen't take them to courts and jail. They are out playing with the rest of us. And we hav to pay for the money they got.. We, our children, and our childrens children...

in my oppinion if a few years(1 year maybe or less), we will be the worst economical country all over the planet. !!!

[alani123]

I'm watching a livestream from the Greek parliament and from what I understand, not even the MPs have a clear idea of what the question of the proposed referendum would be. A lot of uncertainly flowing around.

[LiteCoinGuy]

In the end (i cannot speak very good english)

the mosts money went to politicians (THEY GOD EVERYTHING). Every person that takes this country's leadership doen't take them to courts and jail. They are out playing with the rest of us. And we hav to pay for the money they got.. We, our children, and our childrens children...

in my oppinion if a few years(1 year maybe or less), we will be the worst economical country all over the planet. !!!

no it wont be the worst economical country. without the Euro you will be free again and maybe in 10 years things will be better. but now there will start some tough times i think.

look at argentina. they did this twice in 10-15 years time span.