BFL trade-ins and customs

[Roy Badami]

I'm curious what thought has been given to how trade-in will work for non-US customers.

When I, as a non-US customer, return my Single to trade-in for an Single 'SC', what happens when it gets to US customs?  Will there be money to pay, and if so who pays it.

roy

[jasinlee]

Never had an international package I got coming in opened or had to pay anything extra for customers or anything of the sort here.

[Roy Badami]

It maybe a non-issue - at least I guess there's no equivalent of import VAT to pay in the US.  Hopefully there's no duty to pay, and all is well.  Still, I will complete the post office customs form honestly on my returned Single - I'm certainly not going to risk it being seized due to an incorrect declaration.

I'd just rather get this resolved before it arises. If my trade-in package gets stuck in US Customs with a fee needing to be paid to release it, I'd like to know that BFL were set up and ready for me to just send them some coins to cover the fee, if necessary, rather than risk long delays or (worse) having the package destroyed or returned.

roy

[ice_chill]

Very good thread, I too was thinking about this for a while, would be great to get a response from BFL along with shipping address so we can start preparing.

[dave3]

It would be nice if we could get an RMA # -- then it could be processed like a return to the manufacturer (which it is, actually).  I wouldn't think that would be subject to customs duties coming into the US.

I'm outside the US and plan to ship 2 BFL singles back via FedEx.

Shipping the new ASIC units back out the other way would still have to go through customs again, though.

[SgtSpike]

It maybe a non-issue - at least I guess there's no equivalent of import VAT to pay in the US.  Hopefully there's no duty to pay, and all is well.  Still, I will complete the post office customs form honestly on my returned Single - I'm certainly not going to risk it being seized due to an incorrect declaration.

I'd just rather get this resolved before it arises. If my trade-in package gets stuck in US Customs with a fee needing to be paid to release it, I'd like to know that BFL were set up and ready for me to just send them some coins to cover the fee, if necessary, rather than risk long delays or (worse) having the package destroyed or returned.

roy

It could get stuck in customs, and their could be a fee, but there's no standard case for either - I've never had a package for something I bought internationally get stuck in customs, and I've never paid any sort of fee either.

[vitruvio]

Yes, you must pay again but not twice as we can think,

If you buy Single SC upgrade you must pay only $699, I supose BFL will make a new invoice only for this $699 and you will pay customs for this amount, plus the already $599 payed for the Single, it results the same amount that I will pay for my new Single SC.

Technically can't be a RMA, because this will make not to pay customs in both sendings, and the value of the retourned good is double than sended (and is totally another product) .
Options:

-This is a rebuy, they buy your Single and sell you a Single SC, so for us this is an exportation, and the problem is for them that must pay VAT and cutoms. (I don't think they will) becuase this sopose they will must make an invoice for $1299 (we pay 50% more customs).

-This is return of goods and you ask to your authorities to give you back the VAT and customs you payed for Single. And BFL make and invoice for $1299, you pay the same customs and VAT but is a big problem for us, because of many documents to fill to solicitate the return of customs.

So even not being truly, for authorities and for us the better way is to considere RMA and not pay more. And the they make a new invoice for the $699 newly payed.

[Roy Badami]

Yes, you must pay again but not twice as we can think,

If you buy Single SC upgrade you must pay only $699, I supose BFL will make a new invoice only for this $699 and you will pay customs for this amount, plus the already $599 payed for the Single, it results the same amount that I will pay for my new Single SC.

I don't believe that's true.  I think Bitforce, legally, are obliged to put the true value of the goods on the customs form and Commercial Invoice (if they supply one).  i.e. $1299.  

Anyway, I'm not asking anyone to do anything illegal.  In fact, I would urge Bitforce, PLEASE, do everything by the book - the last thing I want is to have my shipment siezed or delayed due to incorrect declarations.  

roy

ETA: It's not the fees *I* pay to import the goods that I'm worried about; I'm happy to pay those.  My question is, what if there are fees in the other direction (i.e. when I send the goods back to BFL).  It may be that BFL is confident this is a non-issue, in which case all well and good.

[SgtSpike]

Here's some interesting reading for ya:  http://forum.purseblog.com/ebay-forum/what-will-i-pay-customs-tax-international-shipment-397993.html

[ice_chill]

Yes, you must pay again but not twice as we can think,

If you buy Single SC upgrade you must pay only $699, I supose BFL will make a new invoice only for this $699 and you will pay customs for this amount, plus the already $599 payed for the Single, it results the same amount that I will pay for my new Single SC.

I don't believe that's true.  I think Bitforce, legally, are obliged to put the true value of the goods on the customs form and Commercial Invoice (if they supply one).  i.e. $1299.  

Anyway, I'm not asking anyone to do anything illegal.  In fact, I would urge Bitforce, PLEASE, do everything by the book - the last thing I want is to have my shipment siezed or delayed due to incorrect declarations.  

roy

ETA: It's not the fees *I* pay to import the goods that I'm worried about; I'm happy to pay those.  My question is, what if there are fees in the other direction (i.e. when I send the goods back to BFL).  It may be that BFL is confident this is a non-issue, in which case all well and good.

The value of the goods is what you paid for it. If you paid $699 then it's value is $699, you cannot declare a value of more than what was paid for it.

[AndrewBUD]

When I was shipped a package of GPU's with a value of $50 USD going to Canada from USA I was charged over $40 usd in brokerage and customs fee's ...


There is a possibility that you will get dinged with charges.. It also depends on the carrier used.. if BFL is smart they will send a large skid worth to say Canada to have them dispersed once they hit Canada, ya know like a real company would do

[Roy Badami]

The value of the goods is what you paid for it. If you paid $699 then it's value is $699, you cannot declare a value of more than what was paid for it.

The value of something has very little to do with what you pay for it, and there'd have to be something very wrong with a Single SC for its value to be as low as $699, given they sell for $1299 new.

roy

[vitruvio]

One thing is theory and other practice, the theory can be two as I said before, or they are buying your Single or they are accepting a return of a Single, for whatever motive, no need to be a RMA. In this both cases must be a invoice from you to BFL or a credit invoice (negative) made by BFL, both of them imply custom, for the value of Single.

If I sell my Single to BFL they will pay customs like an importation. Will BFL do this? I don't think so.

If I return the goods and ask my treasury  to return the customs and taxes then BFL must make an invoide for $1299, but this is a big f* for any particular, maybe a company can do it easily.

So the easy way for us, for BFL and neutral (maybe not statistically but yes economically) for treasuries of USA an my country is to treat this as an RMA the return of Single and a new sale for $699 the Single SC, make coincide the flow of money with invoice and so the customs and taxes. ( an accountant will say " Internationals accounting principles establish that ........ I know, I'm accountant).

So the practic, If I pay customs and taxes for the $699 all happy.

We can speculate all we want, maybe it's time that BFL enlighten us and say how they have thinked to do this exchange.

Regards

[Roy Badami]

I don't think getting a refund of customs duty already paid is going to be viable, sadly.

Anyway, I don't know what the rules are (and I doubt anyone posting to this thread does).  But I'm happy to pay whatever tax is legally due.

I am not interested in making fraudulant customs declarations and I hope and expect that BFL will not make any fraudulant customs declarations, either.

roy