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[turtlehurricane]

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[Argwai96]

Either open an person to person trading floor like the stock exchange, the problem is always the fiat movement since an exchange has to reinforce any money laundry laws,  any one trading high volume will find it hard to cash out.

[QuestionAuthority]

Can't be done quite yet. Twenty years from now when people have the option to get paid in Bitcoin it can happen.

[achow101]

Bitcoin trading is almost entirely done through banks. Even with in-person cash deals the Bitcoin comes from an exchange or some other supplier via the banks.

Not necessarily, the Bitcoin traded in in-person cash deals could be Bitcoin that the seller mined. It would not have come from an exchange. If they didn't mine it, their supplier could have mined it and so on.

How can we change on a wide scale to not be dependent on banks for trading Bitcoin?

As long as Bitcoin is traded for fiat, then the trading will be dependent on banks, as trading with everything else is. Fiat is dependent on banks, therefore anything bought and sold with fiat is dependent on banks. The only way would be trade between altcoins, but that is not on a wide enough scale.

[cryptworld]

not really, you can do it in person, but otherwise the only way to move fiat is through banks

[BrianM]

Bitcoin trading is almost entirely done through banks. Even with in-person cash deals the Bitcoin comes from an exchange or some other supplier via the banks.

How can we change on a wide scale to not be dependent on banks for trading Bitcoin?

Let me introduce you to Bitcointalk Marketplace:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=5.0

Marketplace meet turtlehurricane, turtlehurricane meet Marketplace.
No need for fiat here, in fact its not even allowed to post stuff not traded in bitcoins.

[pooya87]

Bitcoin trading is almost entirely done through banks. Even with in-person cash deals the Bitcoin comes from an exchange or some other supplier via the banks.

How can we change on a wide scale to not be dependent on banks for trading Bitcoin?

bitcoin trading is still dependent on banking because we are still dependent on fiat and until it is not changed this dependency is going to stay.

many years from now if bitcoin is still around and mass accepted, we might see bitcoin not being dependent on any system and be traded among people, and they get paid for their jobs with bitcoin.

until then, the only way is to buy with cash and person to person.

[Possum577]

Bitcoin is only truly dependent on the traditional banking system for the initial purchase or the sale of bitcoin. As long as owners keep their transactions in bitcoin you can completely avoid the banks!

The hardest part is really getting paid in bitcoin from your employer. I know there are services that will convert your paycheck to bitcoin but those companies rely on dealing with fiat and traditional banks.

[AGD]

One day there will be a critical mass of people, who will understand the power of decentralization and their own power within a decentralized system.

AGD July 02, 2015

edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_PWm2zgbg

[Amph]

you can actually find someone that has an enourmous amount of cash, which was withdrawn many years ago, so they are already taxed and forgotten

and deal with this person only, i admit that something like this isn't practical at all, but there are no solution for this, unless you forget completely about the whole dumping, and uses bitcoin directly, by earning it via signature and mining or something else

Can't be done quite yet. Twenty years from now when people have the option to get paid in Bitcoin it can happen.

if you think about this, there are already "jobs" that pay you directly in bitcoin, signature campaign is one of those and mining is another one

and there are many other if one can search on the web for it, probably less remunerative though...

[neoneros]

There is a whole economy of BTC right here on this very forum, not only can you trade directly on the marketplace and cut out the bank as middle man. you would be amazed what goes on in the Services section: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=52.0 This is a place where people offer services and ask some BTC in return. It is a big cesspool of casino's and scams, but some people actually have some nice and funny services they offer. Like having a personal branded banana being eaten by monkeys and filmed or someone getting paid to eat a sandwich. I myself do drawings, it surprised me how easy it was to set up an arrangement and get paid, so much easier than in real life where I am confined by local connections.

All done without the banking system. This is how we fix it, demand to get paid in bitcoin for your services and support those who do. Only when we cooperate we can have a win-win situation for the whole bitcoin community.

[batesresearch]

All done without the banking system. This is how we fix it, demand to get paid in bitcoin for your services and support those who do. Only when we cooperate we can have a win-win situation for the whole bitcoin community.

Very true. Everything I and my family need daily is paid for in FIAT, when this changes and I can start to pay my fuel, lunch and bills in Bitcoin it will be a step closer to cutting out the banks.

[tiggytomb]

One day when you can pay your utility bills, council tax, fuel etc with BTC it will take off, until then it will be only the few.

[Amph]

One day when you can pay your utility bills, council tax, fuel etc with BTC it will take off, until then it will be only the few.

you can already do that, there are some service like cashila and bitbills, but i don't know how the regulation work for those, they probably send you an invoice or something to prove that you've payed

[fryarminer]

This is a good topic. We need to get away from banks. Look at Greece as we speak. And yet yes, Bitcoin is becoming dependent on banks.
It is starting to get a wide enough acceptance that local trading is possible, but yes, we need to get away from banks.

[QuestionAuthority]

you can actually find someone that has an enourmous amount of cash, which was withdrawn many years ago, so they are already taxed and forgotten

and deal with this person only, i admit that something like this isn't practical at all, but there are no solution for this, unless you forget completely about the whole dumping, and uses bitcoin directly, by earning it via signature and mining or something else

Can't be done quite yet. Twenty years from now when people have the option to get paid in Bitcoin it can happen.

if you think about this, there are already "jobs" that pay you directly in bitcoin, signature campaign is one of those and mining is another one

and there are many other if one can search on the web for it, probably less remunerative though...

Sure, in a small way some people get a pittance from employment. I'm talking about real wages from full time employment available as a permanent payroll option. Business will follow suit and accept Bitcoin in order to capture the disposable income of wage earners.

[d4n13]

As soon as we have half as many bitcoin ATMs as Fiat ATMs banks will be obsolete.

[Eastwind]

As soon as we have half as many bitcoin ATMs as Fiat ATMs banks will be obsolete.

There will be bitcoin banks then.

[dKingston]

more peer-to-peer transactions sites, like LocalBitcoins and in-person classifieds like BitcoinClassifieds.net etc

[btctxns]

As soon as we have half as many bitcoin ATMs as Fiat ATMs banks will be obsolete.

Oh, and as soon as those btc ATMs stop charging exorbitant fees....that too.

My fiat ATM charges me nothing if I'm a member, and 0.625% for the max withdrawal ($2.5 on a $400 withdraw) if I'm not a member.

So, compete with that and you'll have something. No one on the planet is going to use ATMs that charge them 5%+. Sorry.

[knight22]

Maybe this could help:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1098861.msg11706924#msg11706924

[newIndia]

Bitcoin trading is almost entirely done through banks. Even with in-person cash deals the Bitcoin comes from an exchange or some other supplier via the banks.

How can we change on a wide scale to not be dependent on banks for trading Bitcoin?

You can not. Bitcoin was not supposed to be a tradable asset...



The day you can, bitcoin will lose its value... because a competitor is in.

[neurotypical]

Bitcoin trading is almost entirely done through banks. Even with in-person cash deals the Bitcoin comes from an exchange or some other supplier via the banks.

How can we change on a wide scale to not be dependent on banks for trading Bitcoin?

How is person to person (in real life) exchange of a BTC transaction in between smartphones for cash issued in hand tied to banks? That's as anonymous as it gets. In fact, it's the only way to avoid the fiat money you are receiving to be attached to you, any other way and you are recieving a money transaction that gets logged somewhere.
It sucks that having to find people in localbitcoins or something to meet in person is the only way to avoid that tho.

[bitllionaire]

Only way are p2p transactions or ATMs but they usually have a really high fee, so the only solution would be to have a way to transfer money without banks and without fees, but that it's Bitcoin !

[tss]

trade crypto for some sort of good or service.  no banks involved then.

[fryarminer]

Bitcoin trading is almost entirely done through banks. Even with in-person cash deals the Bitcoin comes from an exchange or some other supplier via the banks.

How can we change on a wide scale to not be dependent on banks for trading Bitcoin?

How is person to person (in real life) exchange of a BTC transaction in between smartphones for cash issued in hand tied to banks? That's as anonymous as it gets. In fact, it's the only way to avoid the fiat money you are receiving to be attached to you, any other way and you are recieving a money transaction that gets logged somewhere.
It sucks that having to find people in localbitcoins or something to meet in person is the only way to avoid that tho.

Exactly. Bitcoin is on exchanges because people put them there. If a miner sells his mined Bitcoin for cash, no bank or exchange is involved.

[Amph]

Bitcoin trading is almost entirely done through banks. Even with in-person cash deals the Bitcoin comes from an exchange or some other supplier via the banks.

How can we change on a wide scale to not be dependent on banks for trading Bitcoin?

How is person to person (in real life) exchange of a BTC transaction in between smartphones for cash issued in hand tied to banks? That's as anonymous as it gets. In fact, it's the only way to avoid the fiat money you are receiving to be attached to you, any other way and you are recieving a money transaction that gets logged somewhere.
It sucks that having to find people in localbitcoins or something to meet in person is the only way to avoid that tho.

Exactly. Bitcoin is on exchanges because people put them there. If a miner sells his mined Bitcoin for cash, no bank or exchange is involved.

This is a very good point, if Bitcoin traders could buy directly from miners in person it would eliminate the need for banks. Unfortunately I've found this to be exceedingly difficult, I've contacted local miners with significant operations and none of them were open to selling BTC even though they'd get a better rate.

Maybe a site or organization needs to be created to pair miners with traders, like localbitcoins for miners. Miners could even sell contracts for all BTC generated for a set time period. If an exchange is eventually created it could be quite popular, people could speculate on it based on expected mining profitability.

wouldn't miner sell on localbitcoin? why creating a clone of it, it can't be more trsusted than localbitcoin anyway, they should use that already

or miners(big farms) themlseves should build their own site and sell bitcoin from there directly

[malaimult]

I honestly see moving forward; especially when we halve in 2016, scarcity taking hold.

Truth is, you can save major money by using BTC. From Purse, to Gyft, to a dozen other services. And companies like Coinbase and most other "Buy Bitcoin" exchanges charge a mark up.

In addition, with the FinCEN rulings; there is all sorts of additional paperwork now to buy BTC legitamaley. Even Coinbase, where I've bought countless times, level 3; $50,000 limit, sent me an email: They need copies of my government issued ID now.

So it's getting harder to get. Look at the mark ups on Local Bitcoin. People actually pay $450 for a $260 token.

Crazy.

[gentlemand]

Meanwhile bitcoiners should start their own fiat bank. Just apply for the license, open a transnational fiat bank that's owned and run (crowdfunded) by bitcoin users. So bitcoiners will have a bank to go to that isn't hostile to bitcoin.

This is the most clever idea posted so far in my opinion.

The only way for the government to stop the bitcoin trade and hurt bitcoin users is through the banks. If the entire USA adopts New York style bitlicenses it would effectively end peer to peer bitcoin <---> fiat trading. I think it's crucial for the future of bitcoin to find a large-scale alternative.

A supplier who is completely non-dependent on receiving fiat through banks would be a good start.

All banks are interconnected. The bigger banks can crush the smaller ones by refusing to accept transfers from them etc. What's needed is a few existing institutions warming to the idea. You already have that with Fidor in Europe. More will come board eventually.

Other than that you need people who want to accept BTC only for it to take off. I'd happily take payment for stuff in it and wouldn't convert.

[Herbert2020]

Bitcoin trading is almost entirely done through banks. Even with in-person cash deals the Bitcoin comes from an exchange or some other supplier via the banks.

How can we change on a wide scale to not be dependent on banks for trading Bitcoin?

bitcoin is at a very early stage of its life , and it is not mass adopted yet. so you can not expect it to be completely independent of banking system.
and if you want to stay clear of banking system you can buy bitcoin with cash, and this is exactly what you do when you want to buy anything else

[HeroCat]

When BTC will be in daily use everywhere, may be banks will not be so involved in BTC trade   I think this can be in the future  

[sgk]

There are a couple of specific conditions that exclude the banking system while transferring Bitcoins:
- If someone mines BTC, does not purchase from someone
- If two people agrees to make a transaction through cash, avoiding any transactions via banks

In almost all other scenario, either the 'entry point' or the 'exit point' is controlled by traditional banking systems and hence these are the weak points in the trading system.

However let's hope that Bitcoin will evolve in a manner where you can buy almost anything using BTC, avoiding the fiat conversion.
Decentralized exchanges may also open new possibilities where the fiat conversion is still there but KYC requirements are minimal.

[tokeweed]

Bitcoin trading is almost entirely done through banks. Even with in-person cash deals the Bitcoin comes from an exchange or some other supplier via the banks.

How can we change on a wide scale to not be dependent on banks for trading Bitcoin?

[acquafredda]

If mining would have been still affordable for all we would have never had this problem of going to an exchange to buy BTC.
Who is lucky to be paid into btc is, of course, lucky.

That's a shame actually. Also considering that a lot of exchanges do some fractional reserve banking with btc.

[Coinshot]

the only way was with mining virtually speaking, and it was also the best way to keep your privacy on transaction
sadly even altcoin mining which was more decentralized and allowed more people to enjoy this fascinating activity
it's dead now, the last thing we have is signtaure campaign which grant us to have coin without having to deal with fiat
another way would be to accept bitcoin with your small business, if you are running some kind of shop, you can do this easily

[funkenstein]

Bitcoin is only truly dependent on the traditional banking system for the initial purchase or the sale of bitcoin. As long as owners keep their transactions in bitcoin you can completely avoid the banks!

The hardest part is really getting paid in bitcoin from your employer. I know there are services that will convert your paycheck to bitcoin but those companies rely on dealing with fiat and traditional banks.

How is this hard?  I don't work for fiat currency, end of story.  Pay me with something real, or don't pay me at all.  Was that so hard? 

[achow101]

Bitcoin is only truly dependent on the traditional banking system for the initial purchase or the sale of bitcoin. As long as owners keep their transactions in bitcoin you can completely avoid the banks!

The hardest part is really getting paid in bitcoin from your employer. I know there are services that will convert your paycheck to bitcoin but those companies rely on dealing with fiat and traditional banks.

How is this hard?  I don't work for fiat currency, end of story.  Pay me with something real, or don't pay me at all.  Was that so hard? 

Not hard as in the difficulty of getting paid in Bitcoin, but hard as in getting paid in Bitcoin without relying on fiat. Possum577 is saying that it is difficult to get paid in Bitcoin by an employer because they primarily rely on fiat and banks.

[gentlemand]

Not hard as in the difficulty of getting paid in Bitcoin, but hard as in getting paid in Bitcoin without relying on fiat. Possum577 is saying that it is difficult to get paid in Bitcoin by an employer because they primarily rely on fiat and banks.

There are third party services that take care of it. I dunno how solid they are but it's unrealistic to expect an employer to jump through extra hoops. I'd probably bill my employee for the extra hassle.

[achow101]

Not hard as in the difficulty of getting paid in Bitcoin, but hard as in getting paid in Bitcoin without relying on fiat. Possum577 is saying that it is difficult to get paid in Bitcoin by an employer because they primarily rely on fiat and banks.

There are third party services that take care of it. I dunno how solid they are but it's unrealistic to expect an employer to jump through extra hoops. I'd probably bill my employee for the extra hassle.

There are, but they still rely on banks. Right now, the only one I know of is bitwage. They have you add their bank to your employers payroll system and then convert your paycheck to Bitcoin. It obviously still relies on banks for this, so it is difficult to get paid in Bitcoin _without_ relying on banks at all.

[cakir]

We need "open source bitcoin ATM's" so anyone from around the world may build one (of course properly, we don't want get robbed etc) and deploy it to their stores or some crowd place they rented such as malls etc.

If the ATM's become decentralized; then Bitcoin will be more decentralized & less dependent to the banks...

[gentlemand]

There are, but they still rely on banks. Right now, the only one I know of is bitwage. They have you add their bank to your employers payroll system and then convert your paycheck to Bitcoin. It obviously still relies on banks for this, so it is difficult to get paid in Bitcoin _without_ relying on banks at all.

You'd have to be employed by a pure or partly pure BTC business to avoid banks altogether. I think Overstock offer payment to their staff that way. Blockchain.info pays BTC and nothing but as far as I know.

[NorrisK]

Not hard as in the difficulty of getting paid in Bitcoin, but hard as in getting paid in Bitcoin without relying on fiat. Possum577 is saying that it is difficult to get paid in Bitcoin by an employer because they primarily rely on fiat and banks.

There are third party services that take care of it. I dunno how solid they are but it's unrealistic to expect an employer to jump through extra hoops. I'd probably bill my employee for the extra hassle.

There are, but they still rely on banks. Right now, the only one I know of is bitwage. They have you add their bank to your employers payroll system and then convert your paycheck to Bitcoin. It obviously still relies on banks for this, so it is difficult to get paid in Bitcoin _without_ relying on banks at all.

And you also have to trust an entire months worth of wage to a company? What if they decide to run with your wage, and that of everybody else? (probably most gets payed around the same days, and else your empolyer can't change the deposit account fast enough..)

[johnyj]

It is better to chase the new virtual economy and cyber economy instead of trying to take over the legacy economy.  When people hade smart phone based on data network, they automatically move away from their fixed telephone line

The virtual and cyber economy is destined to grow magnitudes larger than today's economy in physical world, and in those economy the legacy system is very inconvenient and slow, so it needs new form of transaction solution like bitcoin, a world wide money

Selling software and subscriptions around the world is the best use case for bitcoin, almost frictionless international payment. In fact everything that can be delivered on internet can be easily paid with bitcoin

You can not really cut the relation towards legacy banking system: Existing people are all living in legacy banking system, for them the easiest way to get bitcoin is to buy on an exchange using fiat money. And you really need fiat exchanges to exaggerate its price once in a while to remind people that bitcoin is still on the rise