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[knight22]

Maybe this could help:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1098861.msg11706924#msg11706924

[1714868840]

1714868840

[1714868840]

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[1714868840]

1714868840

[newIndia]

Bitcoin trading is almost entirely done through banks. Even with in-person cash deals the Bitcoin comes from an exchange or some other supplier via the banks.

How can we change on a wide scale to not be dependent on banks for trading Bitcoin?

You can not. Bitcoin was not supposed to be a tradable asset...



The day you can, bitcoin will lose its value... because a competitor is in.

[neurotypical]

Bitcoin trading is almost entirely done through banks. Even with in-person cash deals the Bitcoin comes from an exchange or some other supplier via the banks.

How can we change on a wide scale to not be dependent on banks for trading Bitcoin?

How is person to person (in real life) exchange of a BTC transaction in between smartphones for cash issued in hand tied to banks? That's as anonymous as it gets. In fact, it's the only way to avoid the fiat money you are receiving to be attached to you, any other way and you are recieving a money transaction that gets logged somewhere.
It sucks that having to find people in localbitcoins or something to meet in person is the only way to avoid that tho.

[bitllionaire]

Only way are p2p transactions or ATMs but they usually have a really high fee, so the only solution would be to have a way to transfer money without banks and without fees, but that it's Bitcoin !

[tss]

trade crypto for some sort of good or service.  no banks involved then.

[fryarminer]

Bitcoin trading is almost entirely done through banks. Even with in-person cash deals the Bitcoin comes from an exchange or some other supplier via the banks.

How can we change on a wide scale to not be dependent on banks for trading Bitcoin?

How is person to person (in real life) exchange of a BTC transaction in between smartphones for cash issued in hand tied to banks? That's as anonymous as it gets. In fact, it's the only way to avoid the fiat money you are receiving to be attached to you, any other way and you are recieving a money transaction that gets logged somewhere.
It sucks that having to find people in localbitcoins or something to meet in person is the only way to avoid that tho.

Exactly. Bitcoin is on exchanges because people put them there. If a miner sells his mined Bitcoin for cash, no bank or exchange is involved.

[Amph]

Bitcoin trading is almost entirely done through banks. Even with in-person cash deals the Bitcoin comes from an exchange or some other supplier via the banks.

How can we change on a wide scale to not be dependent on banks for trading Bitcoin?

How is person to person (in real life) exchange of a BTC transaction in between smartphones for cash issued in hand tied to banks? That's as anonymous as it gets. In fact, it's the only way to avoid the fiat money you are receiving to be attached to you, any other way and you are recieving a money transaction that gets logged somewhere.
It sucks that having to find people in localbitcoins or something to meet in person is the only way to avoid that tho.

Exactly. Bitcoin is on exchanges because people put them there. If a miner sells his mined Bitcoin for cash, no bank or exchange is involved.

This is a very good point, if Bitcoin traders could buy directly from miners in person it would eliminate the need for banks. Unfortunately I've found this to be exceedingly difficult, I've contacted local miners with significant operations and none of them were open to selling BTC even though they'd get a better rate.

Maybe a site or organization needs to be created to pair miners with traders, like localbitcoins for miners. Miners could even sell contracts for all BTC generated for a set time period. If an exchange is eventually created it could be quite popular, people could speculate on it based on expected mining profitability.

wouldn't miner sell on localbitcoin? why creating a clone of it, it can't be more trsusted than localbitcoin anyway, they should use that already

or miners(big farms) themlseves should build their own site and sell bitcoin from there directly

[malaimult]

I honestly see moving forward; especially when we halve in 2016, scarcity taking hold.

Truth is, you can save major money by using BTC. From Purse, to Gyft, to a dozen other services. And companies like Coinbase and most other "Buy Bitcoin" exchanges charge a mark up.

In addition, with the FinCEN rulings; there is all sorts of additional paperwork now to buy BTC legitamaley. Even Coinbase, where I've bought countless times, level 3; $50,000 limit, sent me an email: They need copies of my government issued ID now.

So it's getting harder to get. Look at the mark ups on Local Bitcoin. People actually pay $450 for a $260 token.

Crazy.

[gentlemand]

Meanwhile bitcoiners should start their own fiat bank. Just apply for the license, open a transnational fiat bank that's owned and run (crowdfunded) by bitcoin users. So bitcoiners will have a bank to go to that isn't hostile to bitcoin.

This is the most clever idea posted so far in my opinion.

The only way for the government to stop the bitcoin trade and hurt bitcoin users is through the banks. If the entire USA adopts New York style bitlicenses it would effectively end peer to peer bitcoin <---> fiat trading. I think it's crucial for the future of bitcoin to find a large-scale alternative.

A supplier who is completely non-dependent on receiving fiat through banks would be a good start.

All banks are interconnected. The bigger banks can crush the smaller ones by refusing to accept transfers from them etc. What's needed is a few existing institutions warming to the idea. You already have that with Fidor in Europe. More will come board eventually.

Other than that you need people who want to accept BTC only for it to take off. I'd happily take payment for stuff in it and wouldn't convert.

[Herbert2020]

Bitcoin trading is almost entirely done through banks. Even with in-person cash deals the Bitcoin comes from an exchange or some other supplier via the banks.

How can we change on a wide scale to not be dependent on banks for trading Bitcoin?

bitcoin is at a very early stage of its life , and it is not mass adopted yet. so you can not expect it to be completely independent of banking system.
and if you want to stay clear of banking system you can buy bitcoin with cash, and this is exactly what you do when you want to buy anything else

[HeroCat]

When BTC will be in daily use everywhere, may be banks will not be so involved in BTC trade   I think this can be in the future  

[sgk]

There are a couple of specific conditions that exclude the banking system while transferring Bitcoins:
- If someone mines BTC, does not purchase from someone
- If two people agrees to make a transaction through cash, avoiding any transactions via banks

In almost all other scenario, either the 'entry point' or the 'exit point' is controlled by traditional banking systems and hence these are the weak points in the trading system.

However let's hope that Bitcoin will evolve in a manner where you can buy almost anything using BTC, avoiding the fiat conversion.
Decentralized exchanges may also open new possibilities where the fiat conversion is still there but KYC requirements are minimal.

[tokeweed]

Bitcoin trading is almost entirely done through banks. Even with in-person cash deals the Bitcoin comes from an exchange or some other supplier via the banks.

How can we change on a wide scale to not be dependent on banks for trading Bitcoin?

[acquafredda]

If mining would have been still affordable for all we would have never had this problem of going to an exchange to buy BTC.
Who is lucky to be paid into btc is, of course, lucky.

That's a shame actually. Also considering that a lot of exchanges do some fractional reserve banking with btc.

[Coinshot]

the only way was with mining virtually speaking, and it was also the best way to keep your privacy on transaction
sadly even altcoin mining which was more decentralized and allowed more people to enjoy this fascinating activity
it's dead now, the last thing we have is signtaure campaign which grant us to have coin without having to deal with fiat
another way would be to accept bitcoin with your small business, if you are running some kind of shop, you can do this easily

[funkenstein]

Bitcoin is only truly dependent on the traditional banking system for the initial purchase or the sale of bitcoin. As long as owners keep their transactions in bitcoin you can completely avoid the banks!

The hardest part is really getting paid in bitcoin from your employer. I know there are services that will convert your paycheck to bitcoin but those companies rely on dealing with fiat and traditional banks.

How is this hard?  I don't work for fiat currency, end of story.  Pay me with something real, or don't pay me at all.  Was that so hard? 

[achow101]

Bitcoin is only truly dependent on the traditional banking system for the initial purchase or the sale of bitcoin. As long as owners keep their transactions in bitcoin you can completely avoid the banks!

The hardest part is really getting paid in bitcoin from your employer. I know there are services that will convert your paycheck to bitcoin but those companies rely on dealing with fiat and traditional banks.

How is this hard?  I don't work for fiat currency, end of story.  Pay me with something real, or don't pay me at all.  Was that so hard? 

Not hard as in the difficulty of getting paid in Bitcoin, but hard as in getting paid in Bitcoin without relying on fiat. Possum577 is saying that it is difficult to get paid in Bitcoin by an employer because they primarily rely on fiat and banks.

[gentlemand]

Not hard as in the difficulty of getting paid in Bitcoin, but hard as in getting paid in Bitcoin without relying on fiat. Possum577 is saying that it is difficult to get paid in Bitcoin by an employer because they primarily rely on fiat and banks.

There are third party services that take care of it. I dunno how solid they are but it's unrealistic to expect an employer to jump through extra hoops. I'd probably bill my employee for the extra hassle.

[achow101]

Not hard as in the difficulty of getting paid in Bitcoin, but hard as in getting paid in Bitcoin without relying on fiat. Possum577 is saying that it is difficult to get paid in Bitcoin by an employer because they primarily rely on fiat and banks.

There are third party services that take care of it. I dunno how solid they are but it's unrealistic to expect an employer to jump through extra hoops. I'd probably bill my employee for the extra hassle.

There are, but they still rely on banks. Right now, the only one I know of is bitwage. They have you add their bank to your employers payroll system and then convert your paycheck to Bitcoin. It obviously still relies on banks for this, so it is difficult to get paid in Bitcoin _without_ relying on banks at all.

[cakir]

We need "open source bitcoin ATM's" so anyone from around the world may build one (of course properly, we don't want get robbed etc) and deploy it to their stores or some crowd place they rented such as malls etc.

If the ATM's become decentralized; then Bitcoin will be more decentralized & less dependent to the banks...