Antminer S4+ issues

[k3nnyx]

Hello friends!

It seems there's a lot of info online about the S4 but not much about the S4+. Given they are almost identical except a better PSU if I'm not mistaken.

Together with a friend, we're now installing 35 of them.

A good bunch of them work well however with a few units, I'm having some issues.

1. After 30-40 minutes of hashing, the red light appears, stable and solid. No blinking.

This red light does not go away unless you unplug the machine and plug it back in. The machine will remain unresponsive and not hashing until it is power rebooted.

This happens with 2-3 machines so far and different machines at times.

2. On a few of the above machines, after the red light appears and you power reboot it, the settings in the machine has all gone back to stock. Meaning the mining pool config is now mining back go antminers account. The stock settings. I have to reconfigure it then.

3. The power cord on some units are very very warm. Scary warm. I will do some swapping around tomorrow to see if the power cords are of bad quality.

4. There is 1 last machine.

When you unplug it and re plug it in, you can connect to it.

After 20-30 seconds, machine is non responsive. Front panel does not show any lights at all and only thing lit is network port lights.

Thanks in advance for everyone's help... It's much appreciated!

[notlist3d]

It seems there's a lot of info online about the S4 but not much about the S4+. Given they are almost identical except a better PSU if I'm not mistaken.

Just checking you are not using 110 are you? I'm guessing your not with 35 but thought I would check as that is the biggest difference in PSU is S4+ "PSU built-in: 1600W (205V - 264V AC)"

[Finksy]

Generally, I would assume if someone was installing 51 kW of equipment, they wouldn't be doing it in a residential setting using 120V.  But I agree you should check the voltage at the outlet to see what you are getting there.  Bitmain has a bad track record of PSU's since the S2, I wouldn't be surprised if these were shit as well.

[notlist3d]

Generally, I would assume if someone was installing 51 kW of equipment, they wouldn't be doing it in a residential setting using 120V.  But I agree you should check the voltage at the outlet to see what you are getting there.  Bitmain has a bad track record of PSU's since the S2, I wouldn't be surprised if these were shit as well.

I assuming so as well but I saw a few things that made me ask to be for sure as described a 110 machine and a 205+ machine as the same.

The next thing I would check there is heat.  I wonder what type of cooling system they are using or what they are doing. To run anything "Scary warm." just sounds like heat might be a issue, or would make me ask about what gauge wire they are using as how they described a power cord.  

If they went from 0 to 35 machines there is just lots of questions to ask to narrow down issue.

[dogie]

To run anything "Scary warm." just sounds like heat might be a issue

He's saying the power CABLE is hot. Probably running the wrong gauge mains cable and eventually starting the S4+ out until it crashes / the PSU decides to call it quits.

[notlist3d]

To run anything "Scary warm." just sounds like heat might be a issue

He's saying the power CABLE is hot. Probably running the wrong gauge mains cable and eventually starting the S4+ out until it crashes / the PSU decides to call it quits.

That is a very small part of my post.  I called it a cord but you could also refer to it as a cable if you like .  Same thing:

To run anything "Scary warm." just sounds like heat might be a issue, or would make me ask about what gauge wire they are using as how they described a power cord.

And why I also mentioned:

would make me ask about what gauge wire they are using

I would be in agreement though wrong gauge cable can cause cords to be hot, which is not good

[k3nnyx]

Thanks for all the help and responses.

When i rocked up back to the "farm" this morning, i found the following results.

I think it would be great to clarify what we have running here first.

I now have continuously running :

18 x Spondoolies SP35
12 x Antminer S3
5 x Antminer S4+
12 x AsicMiner Tubes

I have successfully set up all these and run consistently and reliably with sidehack's great help. Very pleased with the results.

So from the 35 S4+, there's only 30 left to be set up.


As the power from that distribution board is already maxed out, i took power from a different power source and wired up a brand new distributor board. We are an industrial facility with approximately 6,000 amps on tap.

So with these balance 30 units of S4+, we wired up 2 shelves, each to hold 15, bringing a total of 30 units.


Point to note.

1. All power cords are same brand, same price, from the same shop. Probably manufactured from the same cords. All are standard computer cords that you would plug into a printer or home computer.

2. Each level (2 units) has its individual circuit breaker and is individually wired so no plugs are daisy chained.

3. Checking the power draw at all cords and the wiring leading to the plugs is all registering 10amps or thereabouts.


The shelf nearest to the wall (and window where some cool air comes in) has had NO issues at all. Not a single unit dropping off the grid and the cables are not warm. The cables are nice and comfortable.


The 2nd shelf, EVERY cable is warm with some others warmer. This is where some of the units are dropping off the grid.
- Could this be because this shelf is directly behind some other miners like the AsicMiner Tubes and receiving its heat?
- The cords feel really warm. Could it be the heat from the miners directly infront of it? I cant imagine it would be the case though.


I also have a 3rd shelf that is prepared for expansion and growing purposes.

I relocated 2 miners from the first shelf where the cables were comfortable and not warm to the 3rd shelf. And NOW the cables are warm and getting hot.


Somewhat confused.


Approaching the miners just now, i noticed the following.

1st shelf, all 15 units going strong and still hashing.

2nd shelf, i observed the following

1 unit has a SOLID red light. Unit is non responsive. Unplug and replug in and the unit operates normally.

3 units have NO light in the front. Front fans and rear fans are not spinning at all. HOWEVER, PSU fans are spinning. (For some reason, Antpool records these guys as still hashing and running but they obviously dont seem to be running with no heat coming out of them and the network port not showing any activity). A hard reboot by unplugging and replugging makes the unit come back up and running again.

Ironically, shelf 1 is perfectly fine.

This happens only on shelf 2 and shelf 3.

Unit from shelf 1 that is perfectly nice and cool. When you moved to shelf 3, the wire gets HOT.

Any thoughts?

Thanks alot!

[sidehack]

Funny you mention the S2 PSU, because I just spent a couple hours today working with a guy figuring out why his S2 kept shutting down - the PSU is getting weak. We ended up clocking it down to 187MHz before it'd stay on continuous.

I'd also worry about the gauge of power cord and the mains voltage. You're probably drawing around 8A into the PSU, which if you got a nice cheap 18AWG "10A rated" cable could get fairly toasty. You want at least 16AWG power cord, and the higher mains voltage the better - less line current will mean less line power loss, and a higher mains voltage (well, to a point) will mean the active PFC stage of the PSU works more efficiently, increasing the overall PSU performance.

Also, definitely make sure you don't have heat from adjacent shelves blasting right onto/into those miners. Make sure hot air is isolated from ambient and exhausted efficiently from the room.

Lastly, I kinda want to say I hope you get along well with the S4+ because I kinda feel sorry for anyone that bought 'em. The efficiency and hashrate are mediocre for the price, as they're built with a chip that's soon to be two generations old and they're also sorta the least efficient miner anyone's built since about last August.

[MyRig]

It sounds like the heat in these shelf 2 and shelf 3 may be the cause.  If you can, please to make sure adjacent shelves blasting the hot exhaust onto these other miners.

Anytime you see RED LED on Antminer, that means, there is/are some kind of error.  It could be many things.  If it stop hashing, best thing to do is attempt to log into the web control panel, then go to the "Miner Status" tab and take a screenshot.  Look for the Temperature Reading of each hash PCB.  If the problem is heat related, you may see high temperature reading into 80 degrees or above.

If you think it is other than the heat is causing the problem, take 5 units from shelf 1 to shelf 2 and swap the S4+ and see if the problem S4+ perform okay in shelf 1.

Happy Hashing!

Thanks for all the help and responses.

When i rocked up back to the "farm" this morning, i found the following results.

I think it would be great to clarify what we have running here first.

I now have continuously running :

18 x Spondoolies SP35
12 x Antminer S3
5 x Antminer S4+
12 x AsicMiner Tubes

I have successfully set up all these and run consistently and reliably with sidehack's great help. Very pleased with the results.

So from the 35 S4+, there's only 30 left to be set up.


As the power from that distribution board is already maxed out, i took power from a different power source and wired up a brand new distributor board. We are an industrial facility with approximately 6,000 amps on tap.

So with these balance 30 units of S4+, we wired up 2 shelves, each to hold 15, bringing a total of 30 units.


Point to note.

1. All power cords are same brand, same price, from the same shop. Probably manufactured from the same cords. All are standard computer cords that you would plug into a printer or home computer.

2. Each level (2 units) has its individual circuit breaker and is individually wired so no plugs are daisy chained.

3. Checking the power draw at all cords and the wiring leading to the plugs is all registering 10amps or thereabouts.


The shelf nearest to the wall (and window where some cool air comes in) has had NO issues at all. Not a single unit dropping off the grid and the cables are not warm. The cables are nice and comfortable.


The 2nd shelf, EVERY cable is warm with some others warmer. This is where some of the units are dropping off the grid.
- Could this be because this shelf is directly behind some other miners like the AsicMiner Tubes and receiving its heat?
- The cords feel really warm. Could it be the heat from the miners directly infront of it? I cant imagine it would be the case though.


I also have a 3rd shelf that is prepared for expansion and growing purposes.

I relocated 2 miners from the first shelf where the cables were comfortable and not warm to the 3rd shelf. And NOW the cables are warm and getting hot.


Somewhat confused.


Approaching the miners just now, i noticed the following.

1st shelf, all 15 units going strong and still hashing.

2nd shelf, i observed the following

1 unit has a SOLID red light. Unit is non responsive. Unplug and replug in and the unit operates normally.

3 units have NO light in the front. Front fans and rear fans are not spinning at all. HOWEVER, PSU fans are spinning. (For some reason, Antpool records these guys as still hashing and running but they obviously dont seem to be running with no heat coming out of them and the network port not showing any activity). A hard reboot by unplugging and replugging makes the unit come back up and running again.

Ironically, shelf 1 is perfectly fine.

This happens only on shelf 2 and shelf 3.

Unit from shelf 1 that is perfectly nice and cool. When you moved to shelf 3, the wire gets HOT.

Any thoughts?

Thanks alot!

[k3nnyx]

Hello Bitmain, Thanks for the response! Much much appreciated.


The thing is, in larger farm installations in China like ive seen on the internet. If you search large farm installations, you'll find that inevitably 1 shelf will always be blowing into the next. Its just a matter of making sure the air passes through the room fast enough for the heat to escape. Am i correct?

There will always be a point where one machines exhaust heat inevitably becomes the air thats taken in by the next machine to ensure the space is efficiently used.


I will check the machines with a red light shortly and see if indeed the board is getting too hot and is facing thermal shutdown.


Any advice on layout or heat? A simple internet search "bitcoin mining farm large china" and if you view the images, you'll see the machines lined up row after row which means many machines are sucking in exhaust heat.


Thanks again and i will be back with more info.

It sounds like the heat in these shelf 2 and shelf 3 may be the cause.  If you can, please to make sure adjacent shelves blasting the hot exhaust onto these other miners.

Anytime you see RED LED on Antminer, that means, there is/are some kind of error.  It could be many things.  If it stop hashing, best thing to do is attempt to log into the web control panel, then go to the "Miner Status" tab and take a screenshot.  Look for the Temperature Reading of each hash PCB.  If the problem is heat related, you may see high temperature reading into 80 degrees or above.

If you think it is other than the heat is causing the problem, take 5 units from shelf 1 to shelf 2 and swap the S4+ and see if the problem S4+ perform okay in shelf 1.

Happy Hashing!

Thanks for all the help and responses.

When i rocked up back to the "farm" this morning, i found the following results.

I think it would be great to clarify what we have running here first.

I now have continuously running :

18 x Spondoolies SP35
12 x Antminer S3
5 x Antminer S4+
12 x AsicMiner Tubes

I have successfully set up all these and run consistently and reliably with sidehack's great help. Very pleased with the results.

So from the 35 S4+, there's only 30 left to be set up.


As the power from that distribution board is already maxed out, i took power from a different power source and wired up a brand new distributor board. We are an industrial facility with approximately 6,000 amps on tap.

So with these balance 30 units of S4+, we wired up 2 shelves, each to hold 15, bringing a total of 30 units.


Point to note.

1. All power cords are same brand, same price, from the same shop. Probably manufactured from the same cords. All are standard computer cords that you would plug into a printer or home computer.

2. Each level (2 units) has its individual circuit breaker and is individually wired so no plugs are daisy chained.

3. Checking the power draw at all cords and the wiring leading to the plugs is all registering 10amps or thereabouts.


The shelf nearest to the wall (and window where some cool air comes in) has had NO issues at all. Not a single unit dropping off the grid and the cables are not warm. The cables are nice and comfortable.


The 2nd shelf, EVERY cable is warm with some others warmer. This is where some of the units are dropping off the grid.
- Could this be because this shelf is directly behind some other miners like the AsicMiner Tubes and receiving its heat?
- The cords feel really warm. Could it be the heat from the miners directly infront of it? I cant imagine it would be the case though.


I also have a 3rd shelf that is prepared for expansion and growing purposes.

I relocated 2 miners from the first shelf where the cables were comfortable and not warm to the 3rd shelf. And NOW the cables are warm and getting hot.


Somewhat confused.


Approaching the miners just now, i noticed the following.

1st shelf, all 15 units going strong and still hashing.

2nd shelf, i observed the following

1 unit has a SOLID red light. Unit is non responsive. Unplug and replug in and the unit operates normally.

3 units have NO light in the front. Front fans and rear fans are not spinning at all. HOWEVER, PSU fans are spinning. (For some reason, Antpool records these guys as still hashing and running but they obviously dont seem to be running with no heat coming out of them and the network port not showing any activity). A hard reboot by unplugging and replugging makes the unit come back up and running again.

Ironically, shelf 1 is perfectly fine.

This happens only on shelf 2 and shelf 3.

Unit from shelf 1 that is perfectly nice and cool. When you moved to shelf 3, the wire gets HOT.

Any thoughts?

Thanks alot!

[sidehack]

If you face shelves back-to-back, you'll reduce some of the waste heat becoming intake air in the next row. You can also use sheeting of some kind to "seal off" the back of the shelf, making penetrations only for miners so adjacent air stays isolated in the space between shelves. If you have fans pulling this air out directly you'll greatly reduce the amount of heat that gets into your miner intakes.

[alh]

Here's another problem isolation step:

Turn off every miner in Shelf 1. Let it sit for 30 minutes for air to circulate and cool things. Then see if you can get Shelf 2 to operate better. Warm cables sound bad. It's important to figure out if they are warm because they have too much current through them, or if they are being warmed from somewhere else.

You need to figure out if Shelf 2 can operate with Shelf 1 off. If Shelf 2 works well with Shelf 1 off, then you need to figure out if the interaction is strictly because of power draw, or air flow and temperature problems.

Might be useful to get some pictures to illustrate what's taking in air from where and exhausting it to where. It might also be useful to get some simple thermometers that you can place ate intake and exhaust points on various miners to check your belief on what's happening.

Best of luck.

[k3nnyx]

Funny you mention the S2 PSU, because I just spent a couple hours today working with a guy figuring out why his S2 kept shutting down - the PSU is getting weak. We ended up clocking it down to 187MHz before it'd stay on continuous.

I'd also worry about the gauge of power cord and the mains voltage. You're probably drawing around 8A into the PSU, which if you got a nice cheap 18AWG "10A rated" cable could get fairly toasty. You want at least 16AWG power cord, and the higher mains voltage the better - less line current will mean less line power loss, and a higher mains voltage (well, to a point) will mean the active PFC stage of the PSU works more efficiently, increasing the overall PSU performance.

Also, definitely make sure you don't have heat from adjacent shelves blasting right onto/into those miners. Make sure hot air is isolated from ambient and exhausted efficiently from the room.

Lastly, I kinda want to say I hope you get along well with the S4+ because I kinda feel sorry for anyone that bought 'em. The efficiency and hashrate are mediocre for the price, as they're built with a chip that's soon to be two generations old and they're also sorta the least efficient miner anyone's built since about last August.

The power cord may be a problem. HOWEVER.....

Ironically, when i relocate the "SAME CORD, SAME MACHINE" to shelf 1, the cord is no longer hot. Its just nice and warm. No longer painful to touch.

We will have a look at our own wiring installation today and see if there are any bad contact points or any mistakes.

With the machines chomping in hot air from another machine....

What can we do about this?

With large mining farm installations especially the ones we can google about in China, you find that inevitably there will be rows and rows of machines which means some machines are inevitably sucking in heat?

Any thoughts?

Thanks again sidehack for the help as always!

[boomin]

I just have to chime in and say a couple things.  First off - I have 8 of the s4+  They have been the most reliable miner I have used.  If the power cord is hot - you ARE using too small of a conductor in the cable.  I use the 12 AWG wire cables directly to 208v.  The cables are NEVER even warm to the touch.  Mine are in a data center with controlled ac and ambient is about 70-75. I have had them since their first week of release and short of rebooting maybe 3x have had ZERO problems.   I also have 25 s4 units and  I most definitely had the learning curve with them.  All in all - I am going to say its a combination heat/improper voltage due to inadequate wire.


Happy mining! 

Boomin

[notlist3d]

Any advice on layout or heat? A simple internet search "bitcoin mining farm large china" and if you view the images, you'll see the machines lined up row after row which means many machines are sucking in exhaust heat.

Honestly the first thing is from other comments I would check the gauge wire as others have stressed.   With running that much gear you really need to have proper gauge if using 220/240, etc.  Can you take a picture of your wiring? or setup for us to look at?

But the more rows you add the more heat is going to be the gear at back.  It compounds and get's hotter and hotter.   When dealing with that many watt's it can be a lot of heat.   You need to work on your heat extraction or cooling chances are.  There is not really a one size fit's all.  The pictures you mention I'm guessing there is some cooling gear not in that picture.   If you show us what pictures you are using to base your set up off of we might be able to help more.

Some do evaporation cooling it's much cheaper then regular AC does not work for all climates.   Some do bringing in lots of air and pushing lots of air out quickly.   It is something you need to look into through it sounds like at this point.

[k3nnyx]

Hello all!

Thanks once again for all the help. Loving the community spirit! Apologies for my slow response too as am away in Bangkok until Tuesday.

We are based in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Daytime temperatures average 36 deg celcius to 38 deg and the occasional 40.


Wires are now normal. Warmth due to heat from other miner's blowing directly on them.

Still rebooting and the damed red light. When i check the temperatures, it shows 78 deg - 79 deg - 80 deg.

Im thinking this is where thermal shutdown occurs. I powered up 5 S4+ initially and they went on and on for a month without a hassle. Thats why im led to believe the machine is good and solid and its something to do with the heat in the room.

We are now looking at ventilation options. As the room is a long narrow room, ventilation specialists are suggesting that perhaps we work on "changing" the air in the room every 10 seconds.

Meaning something either PULLS out or PUSHES in air at the rate where the air in the room is changed entirely every 10 seconds or so.

Im thinking of the following layout.


W   FAN PULLING IN COOL AIR
I    COOL ZONE
N   ////////////
D   HOT ZONE
O   \\\\\\\\\\\\
W   COOL ZONE
      FAN PULLING IN COOL AIR

So as we have windows every couple of feet or so, this is how i plan to array my miners.

The hot zone will have high powered industrial fans directly on top of them, lots and lots to pull out the hot air. Hot air rises?

Some feedback would be much appreciated.

At this moment, we are currently running, and have on the way

Currently running : Spondoolies SP35 x 18, Antminer S3 x 12, Antminer S4+ x 35, AsicMiner Tube x 12.

Arriving in 0days - 30 days : 100 x Antminer S5, 50 x Antminer S3, 4 x AsicMiner Tube and possibly some Avalons.

Im thinking this heat problem needs to be resolved properly or at least well thought out before the balance of the machines arrive or we'll be in for a big surprise and more machines asleep than awake.

Thanks again!

[sidehack]

Back-to-back on the shelves is what you need, so the exhaust of one shelf is not blowing at the intake of another, just like you have pictured.

I've had a pair of S4 running in my hosting for a few months, and on the hottest day of the year (about 95F, 35C) the highest temp reading was 74C. After improving the ventilation from about 9KCFM to 18KCFM and ducting the hot side better (so less hot air leaked and mixed with cold instead of being pulled outside) the next 35C day gave me a peak miner temp reading of about 62C.