Christian bakers fined $135,000 for refusing to make wedding cake for lesbians

[cryptocoiner]

Christian bakers fined $135,000 for refusing to make wedding cake for lesbians.


The owners of a mom and pop bakery have just learned there is a significant price to pay for following their religious beliefs.

Aaron and Melissa Klein, the owners of Sweet Cakes By Melissa, have been ordered to pay $135,000 in damages to a lesbian couple after they refused to bake them a wedding cake in 2013.

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The Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industry (BOLI) awarded $60,000 to Laurel Bowman-Cryer and $75,000 in damages to Rachel Bowman-Cryer for “emotional suffering.”

“This case is not about a wedding cake or a marriage,” the final order read. “It is about a business’s refusal to serve someone because of their sexual orientation. Under Oregon law, that is illegal.”

According to the BOLI, the lesbian couple suffered great angst. One of the women “felt depressed and questioned whether there was something inherently wrong with the sexual orientation she was born with.” They said she had “difficulty controlling her emotions and cried a lot.”

moar - http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/07/02/christian-bakers-fined-135000-for-refusing-to-make-wedding-cake-for-lesbians.html?intcmp=trending

[Possum577]

Very old news i'm afraid, but it's one of the major news events that has led to the recent legislation to make same sex marriage legal in the US. Now, the social debate continues on whether people who disagree with same sex marriage due to religious beliefs can refuse service to those they know are gay. The test for whether this is discrimination hinges largely on whether sexual orientation is a protected class in the US, I believe it is, which would make it illegal for a business to refuse them service (if the reason for the refusal is due to the sexual orientation.)

[Beliathon]

Christian bakers fined $135,000 for refusing to make wedding cake for lesbians.

Good.

If they [were white and] had refused to make a wedding cake for a black hetero couple, imagine the reaction.

Zero tolerance for bigotry, this is America.

[Snail2]

Very old news i'm afraid, but it's one of the major news events that has led to the recent legislation to make same sex marriage legal in the US. Now, the social debate continues on whether people who disagree with same sex marriage due to religious beliefs can refuse service to those they know are gay. The test for whether this is discrimination hinges largely on whether sexual orientation is a protected class in the US, I believe it is, which would make it illegal for a business to refuse them service (if the reason for the refusal is due to the sexual orientation.)

Fighting a rather natural, I'd say grass roots discrimination with positive discrimination forced from the top of the society will lead to more hatred instead of fixing anything.

[pandher]

A business should be free to sell or not sell to anyone it likes. America seems to be self destructing

Picture that - I wont sell my used phone to a person i dont like, i get fined

[TECSHARE]

Christian bakers fined $135,000 for refusing to make wedding cake for lesbians.

Good.

If they [were white and] had refused to make a wedding cake for a black hetero couple, imagine the reaction.

Zero tolerance for bigotry, this is America.

So you think gays struggle as much for acceptance as blacks do? You can't tell if a person is gay just by looking at them, and if they really wanted to they could just pretend to be straight. Ask one of your black friends what the success rate they would have pretending to be white would be.

As far as the cake, it is not like they came into a restaurant and they refused to feed them, or they were refused entry into some public club for being homosexual. They are purchasing a service, and that service requires a lot of investment of time, resources, and effort. Wedding cakes can be extremely complicated and expensive, and forcing a baker to spend all that effort on something that they object to for whatever reason is not appropriate. In effect you are denying the baker the right to observe their religious beliefs, as if there are not other bakers who will gladly accept your business.

I don't think it is appropriate for one very important reason. Ones sexual orientation should not be a legally protected class, because it is something that is not demonstrable with empirical evidence. It is easy to prove if someone is black in most cases, try to prove someone is gay. IE it would be indistinguishable to the the difference between an actual homosexual and someone who just claims to be homosexual, leaving everyone else open to lots of abuse via the legal system not just form actual homosexuals, but people pretending to be homosexual. I believe all humans should be treated with respect and not be discriminated against, but the law works with facts and proofs, not attractions.

Lets examine this logic further. People have the right to free speech in this country (supposedly). Yet companies like Walmart actively refuse to make southern flag cakes because some people (other than the customer ordering the cake) find it offensive. Yet some how a baker who probably has to spend at least an entire work day, or more making a wedding cake is not allowed to turn down a job because it offends them? Censorship seems to be very selective. Also Social justice warriors seem to have an unhealthy fascination with cakes.

Furthermore even if you think homosexuality should be a protected class, you you really honestly believe the supposed hardship placed on this lesbian couple was so severe that the baker should pay $135,000, a sum that would be sure to destroy the livelihoods of almost anyone? Is the punishment proportional to the supposed crime? I don't think so. I believe this is way beyond insane.

[Beliathon]

Furthermore even if you think homosexuality should be a protected class, you you really honestly believe the supposed hardship placed on this lesbian couple was so severe that the baker should pay $135,000, a sum that would be sure to destroy the livelihoods of almost anyone? Is the punishment proportional to the supposed crime? I don't think so. I believe this is way beyond insane.

I'm more than happy to see bigotry come at such a high cost to the ignorant ones who practice it. Bigotry kills. Hate kills.

So you think gays struggle as much for acceptance as blacks do?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots

I think that's a fruitless and fucked up question to ask. In both cases, less so each passing day as Christianity slowly dies in America.

[TECSHARE]

Furthermore even if you think homosexuality should be a protected class, you you really honestly believe the supposed hardship placed on this lesbian couple was so severe that the baker should pay $135,000, a sum that would be sure to destroy the livelihoods of almost anyone? Is the punishment proportional to the supposed crime? I don't think so. I believe this is way beyond insane.

I'm more than happy to see bigotry come at such a high cost to the ignorant ones who practice it. Bigotry kills. Hate kills.

So you think gays struggle as much for acceptance as blacks do?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots

I think that's a fruitless and fucked up question to ask. In both cases, less so each passing day as Christianity slowly dies in America.

Yeah, I am aware you have no sense of justice or proportional punishment and would gladly exterminate all those whom dare not fit within your imaginary utopian social construct. This is not bigotry, this is a business owner exercising their right to choose who they contract with. It is not like they sat down at a diner and they refused to serve them a meal. Making a wedding cake is a LOT of work, and some people might find being forced to use their craft to support something they find offensive under threat of hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines pretty excessive, imposing, and intolerant of their own religious rights and their rights as a business owner. Making homosexuality as a protected class is simply not something that can be enforced justly or equitably with any degree of certainty.

People in the past who denied services to people based on their race did not do so on the basis of religion, they did it based on racism. There is no constitutional right to racism in the USA, but there is that right for religion. This kind of thing is a purposely constructed abuse of the law and a tale of victim hood designed to destroy those who practice their faith.


Interesting. A riot happened once. That proves what? I don't know if that compares to hundreds of years of slavery and institutionalized oppression. Also remind me when the hundreds of years of gay slavery happened.

Why is it a fruitless question? Because it points out your flippant characterization of the struggle of gays against homophobia being exactly the same as the struggle of blacks against racism? You are the one that made the comparison, why is it an invalid comparison now when I point out the inconsistencies under your own example? Also who said anything about Christianity? You are showing your bias and hatred for a particular group of religious peoples. I believe all religious peoples should be free to practice their faith as long as they are not violating the rights of others. Refusing to bake a cake for someone does not qualify as violating someone's rights in my book.

[cooldgamer]

Furthermore even if you think homosexuality should be a protected class, you you really honestly believe the supposed hardship placed on this lesbian couple was so severe that the baker should pay $135,000, a sum that would be sure to destroy the livelihoods of almost anyone? Is the punishment proportional to the supposed crime? I don't think so. I believe this is way beyond insane.

I'm more than happy to see bigotry come at such a high cost to the ignorant ones who practice it. Bigotry kills. Hate kills.

So you think gays struggle as much for acceptance as blacks do?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots

I think that's a fruitless and fucked up question to ask. In both cases, less so each passing day as Christianity slowly dies in America.

Yeah, I am aware you have no sense of justice or proportional punishment and would gladly exterminate all those whom dare not fit within your imaginary utopian social construct. This is not bigotry, this is a business owner exercising their right to choose who they contract with. It is not like they sat down at a diner and they refused to serve them a meal. Making a wedding cake is a LOT of work, and some people might find being forced to use their craft to support something they find offensive under threat of hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines pretty excessive, imposing, and intolerant of their own religious rights and their rights as a business owner. Making homosexuality as a protected class is simply not something that can be enforced justly or equitably with any degree of certainty.

People in the past who denied services to people based on their race did not do so on the basis of religion, they did it based on racism. There is no constitutional right to racism in the USA, but there is that right for religion. This kind of thing is a purposely constructed abuse of the law and a tale of victim hood designed to destroy those who practice their faith.


Interesting. A riot happened once. That proves what? I don't know if that compares to hundreds of years of slavery and institutionalized oppression. Also remind me when the hundreds of years of gay slavery happened.

Why is it a fruitless question? Because it points out your flippant characterization of the struggle of gays against homophobia being exactly the same as the struggle of blacks against racism? You are the one that made the comparison, why is it an invalid comparison now when I point out the inconsistencies under your own example? Also who said anything about Christianity? You are showing your bias and hatred for a particular group of religious peoples. I believe all religious peoples should be free to practice their faith as long as they are not violating the rights of others. Refusing to bake a cake for someone does not qualify as violating someone's rights in my book.

Having a business owner be able to discriminate based on religion is a tough topic for sure.  If we lived in a world where you could go next door to the Christian baker and get a cake made for anybody, I really would have no problem with it.  However, this simply isn't the case.  Coming from the deep south, the vast majority of the people here are anti-LGBT and would turn you away in a heartbeat if they had the option to.  Is it really okay for somebody to have to drive hours just to get a service they want to pay for simply because they live a different lifestyle than the service provider?

Moreso, people won't be happy if it's just marriage based services, and even if they were it would be hard to figure out where the line is drawn.  Is it okay to not allow a gay couple to stay at your motel on their honeymoon because of your beliefs?  If I claimed to be a Humanist and refused to serve anti-gay people on my religious basis, would that be okay?  While it wouldn't be possible to do that since you'd have no idea, you get the point I'm trying to make.

Religion shouldn't have any basis in a publicly owned business.  You're welcome to donate it's money to whatever causes you want, welcome to pray every day before starting work and take off early to go to church.  However, your rights end where another person's right to be served begins.

[panju1]

Bakers should just bake, no questions asked.
But then again, $135K is a crazy amount of money.

[Beliathon]

Bakers should just bake, no questions asked.
But then again, $135K is a crazy amount of money.

I'll agree there is a huge disconnect between government "justice by fining" and the realities on the ground for Americans today,  the political caste seem to be blissfully unaware that most folks aren't millionaires.

Perhaps that's because we haven't devoured them yet.

[Gervais]

Not sure how I feel about this. Should they be sued? Why not just shame them publicly and voice your support by refusing to use their business. The negative impact will have a big effect on their business for sure.

Christian bakers fined $135,000 for refusing to make wedding cake for lesbians.

Good.

If they [were white and] had refused to make a wedding cake for a black hetero couple, imagine the reaction.

Zero tolerance for bigotry, this is America.

So you think gays struggle as much for acceptance as blacks do? You can't tell if a person is gay just by looking at them, and if they really wanted to they could just pretend to be straight. Ask one of your black friends what the success rate they would have pretending to be white would be.

[Beliathon]

Ask one of your black friends what the success rate they would have pretending to be white would be.

Barack Obama makes it look easy.

[TECSHARE]

Funny shit.

[pedrog]

Well, religious beliefs or whatever beliefs don't give a special right to people to do whatever they want, specially not following the law, that would be quite chaotic...

In the USA fines are way too high, but surprisingly it didn't went to millions, maybe if it was a bigger store the couple would have been granted a couple million.

[panju1]

In the USA fines are way too high, but surprisingly it didn't went to millions, maybe if it was a bigger store the couple would have been granted a couple million.

I wonder where they are going to find the money to pay the fine.

Mrs. Klein told me her five children were subjected to death threats -- death threats for simply refusing to participate in a same-sex wedding. Eventually, the bullying became so severe the family had to shut down their retail store and Mr. Klein had to take a job picking up garbage.

[bryant.coleman]

Here is the Lesbian couple:



And here are the bakers:



And here is Brad Avakian (Commissioner of the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries) who awarded the Sodomites $135,000 in compensation.



I just hope that other conservatives will step in and donate, to help Aaron and Melissa.

[Rmcdermott927]

Here is the Lesbian couple:



And here are the bakers:



And here is Brad Avakian (Commissioner of the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries) who awarded the Sodomites $135,000 in compensation.



I just hope that other conservatives will step in and donate, to help Aaron and Melissa.

Why do you hope that?   I have quite a few gay friends and it is a very hard thing for someone to have to go through life like that.   They have 3 choices, 1) Hide the fact that they are gay and go though life spiteful and miserable, 2) Actually be gay out in the open and live life happily, or 3) become a catholic priest.

Whether or not it makes people uncomfortable, people should not be afraid to be who they are.   You may tell yourself that being gay is a "choice", but the 400% increase in suicidality among gays seems to suggest otherwise.

[Sithara007]

Why do you hope that?   I have quite a few gay friends and it is a very hard thing for someone to have to go through life like that.   They have 3 choices, 1) Hide the fact that they are gay and go though life spiteful and miserable, 2) Actually be gay out in the open and live life happily, or 3) become a catholic priest.

What about #3? So you are agreeing that most of the gays are pedophiles?

[jayce]

If they are running a business, then they should be a professional who accept every customers, doesn't matter who the customers are. The main point is, the customers like your product and your business is going up. It's okay if the shop owners have their rights to choose their customers, but I guess the business won't get success.