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Author Topic: Laissez Faire City (a BFL connection(?), et al.)  (Read 6664 times)
Phinnaeus Gage (OP)
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September 21, 2012, 01:57:46 AM
 #1

To not further pollute the current Butterfly Labs thread with this I believe lies a connection, I'll dedicate a new thread here in Off-topic for my dwindling fan base to peruse.

There's a lot of players connected to Laissez Faire City, some of which committed suicide, died, didn't really die, or are active members of this forum. The follow ad appeared in The Economist in June of 1995, of which I glean from here: http://www.seasteading.org/2009/07/nation-founding-classics-laissez-faire-citys-ad-the-economist/



Feel free to discuss whatever related to LFC, and since we're in Off-topic, the tread may verve in who knows what direction, but as always I'll keep my wet noodle whip closeted, saving the 500 lashes for some other occasion.

I've reserved Post #2 for a synopsis if one is warranted. Post #3 is where I'll start penning to get this thread a rollin'.

~Bruno~
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September 21, 2012, 01:58:14 AM
 #2

Reserved!
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September 21, 2012, 01:58:59 AM
Last edit: September 21, 2012, 02:33:33 AM by Phinnaeus Gage
 #3

To get up to speed as to what Laissez Faire City was, I offer up the following links.

Update on Laissez Faire City

Quote
2) establish some core businesses and services which would facilitate economic activities and wealth creation. Such core services include encrypted/private communication servers (which, in addition to masking message content also mask sender/recipient combinations), a stock exchange, and a digital cash exchange.

SPECIAL REPORT ON VISIT TO LAISSEZ FAIRE CITY

Quote
And the four travelers all decided to put their money where their mouths were by becoming founding grantors of  Laissez Faire City and two of them leapt off a bridge just to seal it in style. As I hung there dangling above the river still 100 feet below I reflected that an existing founder had jumped FIRST. Now how many businesses have that kind of chutzpah? Look at what they have to offer and decide for yourself....



Imagine if Bitcoin was the brainchild of the founders of LFC while consuming the local vegetation in some jungle in Costa Rica.

More can be read archived on LFC:

http://web.archive.org/web/19980716012653/lfcity.com/sovereigng.htm
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September 21, 2012, 02:32:25 AM
 #4

Bump! Links over there are not working. http://freenation.org/a/f63k1.html

I like the advert more than the eventual 'results' of the initiative (see John Kingman's report)  Undecided
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September 21, 2012, 03:04:01 AM
 #5

The first connection we have between BFL and LFC is Sonny Vleisides (second quote): No taxes or bureaucracy in planned libertarian paradise

Quote
Proponents say the futuristic city, drawn straight from the pages of a 1950s novel, will combine the dynamism of Hong Kong with the beauty of - Las Vegas.

Quote
The group already has 60 founding members, each of whom put up $5,000 (pounds 3,125) and a recent advertisement in the Economist yielded a flood of letters and faxes. "Some of them have been sending us unsolicited money, which is more than we asked for," said Sonny Vleisides, editor of the Laissez Faire City Times, the newsletter sent to every prospective founder.
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September 21, 2012, 04:35:35 AM
 #6

I'm surprised that Digital Monetary Trust (DMT) has only been touched upon once before on this forum by a member who'e still active.

I'm new to this forum. I am thrilled to be here. In a previous life, I lived at Laissez Faire City and had some involvement with the Digital Monetary Trust venture of Orin Grabbe.

http://www.orlingrabbe.com/dmt1.htm

Quote
This article describes an Internet-based anonymous banking project, known as The Digital Monetary Trust, Ltd. The Digital Monetary Trust (hereafter: DMT) is a proposed financial trust (which may be optionally viewed as a mutual fund, or a money market fund) all of whose assets will be invested in cash, commodities (such as gold), and high-quality (low credit-risk) securities denominated in various national currencies. DMT is a Laissez Faire City corporation.

http://www.orlingrabbe.com/dmt2.htm (this is part 2) reads like Satoshi Nakamoto's White Paper. I'm in need of an expect opinion on this, for here is where I get lost.
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September 21, 2012, 05:38:41 AM
 #7

And you think we have problems here in paradise.

Imagine if the Bitcoinica and Pirate episodes were rolled into one. This: Laissez Faire City Founders looking for revenge?

An excerpt:

Quote
James Ray Houston has ripped off a lot of money from people many times.
The trail starts in Las Vegas , then Florida and on to Costa Rica, who knows where it will end?
None of the assets from Landco, the real estate part of LFC ever showed up on the truly laughable audit. A lot of assets "somehow" did not make it to the audit, Johann Gevers must be a student of the Leavenworth system of accounting.
Grabbe has some sort of deal going with Sealand, could be where he hosts the DMT stuff. A lot of porn and spam comes from there so he would fit right in.
One of the unmasked BOG( Board of Oversight Governors)used the nym Graywing, real name Magdalena Donea, runs this site http://www.lfcgate.com/
and this one
http://thirdhost.com/
She is married to Patrick G. McCuller, another fellow with real "inside " info.
This is a site run by an LFC "insider" http://www.scamdog.com/
And this one http://ica.citystateinc.com/
And the nym Howard Huge is really Steve Randall of this site
http://www.randallsquared.com/
And then there is http://www.metropipe.net/, just took over Mailvault, run by yet another LFC alumni.
And Grabbe is right there http://www.orlingrabbe.com/homepage.html

And the low risk high value stock they trade in is the names and emails and payment histories of Sovereign Individuals.
High net worth sovereign translates in idiot to english as- has cash -will send to strangers.
They are not on the run because when a scammer steals from libertarians or sovereigns there was very little risk.

Here's the fun part: Wait till other LFC players on this forum, besides Dr.Steve, start emerging, namely Johann Gevers, and I'm not stating whether he's a good or bad guy--just connected.

~Bruno~
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September 21, 2012, 06:16:14 AM
 #8

And more of the same (different link): http://www.offshorealert.com/forums.aspx?g=posts&t=36707

Quote
I believe that the "Adam Selene" comment came from a former Laissez Faire City Randroid, user nyms from various science fiction books(and movies) were very popular. And still are at the Distributed City clubhouse, the one for the failed programmers, who partied more than they coded. Encryption, digital cash, perpetual tourist, Sovereign, taxes bad, all the really stupid parts of Libertarian thought times 12-they are looking for more high net worth Sovereigns. Grabbe and Ian Fraser hang out there.
Each founder paid 6K per position and Grabbe got half, Ian got paid a bounty for every founder he brought in.

They DID produce the J. Orlin Grabbe Digital Monetary Trust-DMT- and pennies on the dollar amounts of this DMT are allegedly being given to LFC founders as a consolation prize for the funds embezzled by James Ray Houston (aka Rex Rogers aka Midas Mulligan aka Big Ben aka Kay Ludlow aka the former "Silver King" of Las Vegas shame) the City Clerk and even the Trustee, a Mr. Mikhail Larguine. There may also have been a problem with the books, the audit was very entertaining, if nothing else. It can be seen here, http://www.lfcfa.net/
the notes to the audit are juicy reading.
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September 21, 2012, 07:45:42 AM
 #9

admittingly haven't read up on Rand or Laissez Faire City, but wouldn't be kind of cheating, if said city has business with the outside world? Like the Biosphere2 was completely sealed of from the atmosphere. If LFC citizens do business with outside governed countries (where poor people have more purchasing power and businesses are taxed) how can it prove sustainability? They'll have to have fences to keep people in, and an infrastructure with farmers street sweepers and beggars etc.

Sounds more to me as a billionaires tax paradise, not a scientific experiment!
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September 21, 2012, 10:26:32 AM
 #10

I am Andrew Ryan, and I'm here to ask you a question.
 
Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?
'No!' says the man in Washington, 'it belongs to the poor.'
'No!' says the man in the Vatican, 'it belongs to God.'
'No!' says the man in Moscow, 'it belongs to everyone.'

I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different.

I chose the impossible.

I chose... Rapture.

A city where the artist would not fear the censor;
where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality;
where the great would not be constrained by the small!

And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city as well.
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September 21, 2012, 01:10:25 PM
 #11

I'm surprised that Digital Monetary Trust (DMT) has only been touched upon once before on this forum by a member who'e still active.

I'm new to this forum. I am thrilled to be here. In a previous life, I lived at Laissez Faire City and had some involvement with the Digital Monetary Trust venture of Orin Grabbe.

http://www.orlingrabbe.com/dmt1.htm

Quote
This article describes an Internet-based anonymous banking project, known as The Digital Monetary Trust, Ltd. The Digital Monetary Trust (hereafter: DMT) is a proposed financial trust (which may be optionally viewed as a mutual fund, or a money market fund) all of whose assets will be invested in cash, commodities (such as gold), and high-quality (low credit-risk) securities denominated in various national currencies. DMT is a Laissez Faire City corporation.

http://www.orlingrabbe.com/dmt2.htm (this is part 2) reads like Satoshi Nakamoto's White Paper. I'm in need of an expect opinion on this, for here is where I get lost.

Loos more like open transactions than anything else.

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September 21, 2012, 01:43:26 PM
 #12

I am Andrew Ryan, and I'm here to ask you a question.
 
Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?
'No!' says the man in Washington, 'it belongs to the poor.'
'No!' says the man in the Vatican, 'it belongs to God.'
'No!' says the man in Moscow, 'it belongs to everyone.'

I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different.

I chose the impossible.

I chose... Rapture.

A city where the artist would not fear the censor;
where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality;
where the great would not be constrained by the small!

And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city as well.

+1, epic

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September 21, 2012, 07:00:05 PM
 #13

No taxes or bureaucracy in planned libertarian paradise: Adventurers seek to establish a capitalist Utopia in the jungle

Quote
The group already has 60 founding members, each of whom put up $5,000 (pounds 3,125) and a recent advertisement in the Economist yielded a flood of letters and faxes. "Some of them have been sending us unsolicited money, which is more than we asked for," said Sonny Vleisides, editor of the Laissez Faire City Times, the newsletter sent to every prospective founder.

Yet MORE Laissez Faire City info.

Quote
Mailvault is a supposedly secure email system- Mailvault.com-
built by the Laissez Faire City programmers, see the previous posts. There was an IRS revenue agent on the staff of Laissez Faire City during the time this was built. This agent helped troubleshoot systems that the LFC security "experts" just could not figure out. And a bang up job he did too!
Surely no federal tax agent would stoop to a backdoor in a system used to move funds by a large group of tax evaders? By Saint Ayn of the holy Rand, that just would not be possible!, right?

As shown here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.msg1208123#msg1208123 Johann Gevers owns mailvault.com
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September 21, 2012, 08:41:56 PM
 #14

wouldn't be kind of cheating, if said city has business with the outside world?

I've thought about this a bunch, and originally I had the same view as you.  But, now I think the question of sustainability depends on what kind of assets are owned by the residents of the city, outside of the city.

Sure, it is valid to say that cities like Hong Kong are not sustainable, since they depend in large part on immigrant slave-like labor, on financial services and on acting as trading hubs.  But it is possible to create a city that is for the most part only dependent upon real assets, owned by its residents in other countries.

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September 22, 2012, 03:26:01 PM
 #15

Sonny Vleisides' father, James Ray Houston.

JANE ANN MORRISON: Sheriff's reference jogs memories of 1970s 'Silver King' political scandal

Quote
He came back to face 24 charges of mail and wire fraud but was found not guilty by federal jurors, who decided that, yes, he had stiffed his investors but had no intent to defraud. The 1,182 investors who had lost more than $3.5 million by investing in nonexistent silver were out of luck.

Quote
In the end, the Silver King's silver was gone. Investors lost their money to a glib con man, a self-promoter who wanted to be governor of Nevada, a man with more money than sense who believed his own PR.

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September 22, 2012, 05:02:46 PM
 #16


Wow, that is some father. I wonder why Nevada was his chosen state to be governor, lol.

How can BFL_Sonny say almost nothing about his father, other than that he became enamored with him as an adult?

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September 22, 2012, 05:15:51 PM
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Wow this is looking worse and worse...

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September 22, 2012, 07:48:07 PM
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Wow, that is some father. I wonder why Nevada was his chosen state to be governor, lol.

How can BFL_Sonny say almost nothing about his father, other than that he became enamored with him as an adult?

An adult in his mid twenties, that is.

There's something about that Laissez Faire City deal I'm missing, but can't put my finger on it.

James Orlin Grabbe is one major connection, but still feel there's more to this story besides him, Houston, Vleisides, Gevers, et al. (previously mentioned on this forum)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Orlin_Grabbe

The follow books may offer up clues:





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September 22, 2012, 08:07:55 PM
 #19

The follow books may offer up clues:

I don't think the authors of those books have any personal connections to the subjects of your current investigation (which has been outstanding).

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September 22, 2012, 08:20:37 PM
 #20

Shit! I just found this, but don't have time to read it, for a client of mine is due any minute. http://www.liberalismo.org/bitacoras/7/2487/historia/laissez/faire/city/

~Bruno~
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