Leaving eurozone - Greece & Bitcoin

[NyeFe]

It looks like the first signs of the Greek referendum results are out, with 'NO' leading the way. This will surely and indirectly impact Bitcoin, at least in a positive light.


Source

"It would be interesting to find out it if there's enough btc ATMs available and accessible for the public over in Greece."

[newIndia]

"It would be interesting to found it if there's enough btc ATMs available and accessible for the public over in Greece."

They dont have liquid cash at hand. I dont know how would they use a BTC ATM, even if it is available.

[unamis76]

As far as we know, there's a BTM on Athens. Unfortunately it's a one way machine, and Greeks can't withdraw money to use it...

As for Bitcoin, I highly doubt that greek people are moving the price. It's probably just whales speculating on the referendum outcome (and "NO" seems to spike the whales quite a bit)

[flix]

Buying bitcoins with bank accounts closed is not an option. Maybe via localbitcoins.com in cash deals...

But the real option for Greeks here is earning bitcoins. Be it online or from tourists and exports.

The advantage for a hotel or bar owner of being paid in bitcoins vs credit card (which are linked to blocked bank account) is huge. Tourism remains Greece's top industry.

[unamis76]

Buying bitcoins with bank accounts closed is not an option. Maybe via localbitcoins.com in cash deals...

But the real option for Greeks here is earning bitcoins. Be it online or from tourists and exports.

Lots of tourists around there by this time of the year and in the next few weeks probably. Good time to deal in Bitcoin indeed.

[pedrog]

Already at $274, Litecoin also getting a push, are we going to see $1000/bitcoin again?

No doubt these are interesting times for bitcoin.

[newIndia]

As for Bitcoin, I highly doubt that greek people are moving the price. It's probably just whales speculating on the referendum outcome (and "NO" seems to spike the whales quite a bit)

This is always the case... LoLz

Buying bitcoins with bank accounts closed is not an option. Maybe via localbitcoins.com in cash deals...

But the real option for Greeks here is earning bitcoins. Be it online or from tourists and exports.

The advantage for a hotel or bar owner of being paid in bitcoins vs credit card (which are linked to blocked bank account) is huge. Tourism remains Greece's top industry.

So, are we going to see a boom in bitcoin tourism ? That's good. A real white collar use of bitcoin would be awesome

[flix]

So, are we going to see a boom in bitcoin tourism ? That's good. A real white collar use of bitcoin would be awesome

Well Expedia, Destinia, other travel agencies and some airlines have already been involved with Bitcoin for some months... Plane tickets and hotel reservations are a large chunk of reported Bitpay transactions...

[OROBTC]

...

GREECE is an excellent reason for there to be more BTC ATMs.  Last I heard there was just one for all of Greece.

There is talk of a 30% haircut for bank accounts over $100,000 euros there in Greece...


We need more BTC ATMs everywhere.  And STAT!

[NorrisK]

...

GREECE is an excellent reason for there to be more BTC ATMs.  Last I heard there was just one for all of Greece.

There is talk of a 30% haircut for bank accounts over $100,000 euros there in Greece...


We need more BTC ATMs everywhere.  And STAT!

Tell me first how the greeks will buy btc from said ATMs... How will they be able to get hands on their money? I guess the shortterm impact will be minimal..

[OROBTC]

...

NorrisK

Actually I am thinking BTC ATMs more about the USA.  It is more-or-less too late in Greece's case, as you point out.

The time to buy some BTC (at least for cash), is while there still is cash.  Don't wait around until The End.  Preparation is just smart.

GREECE also shows that it is smart to have CASH on hand.  It is thought that the average American only has some $50 in his wallet at a given time.  Don't be average.  Have more cash just in case.

Cash + BTC + Gold = Comforting Diversification

[Netnox]

Already at $274, Litecoin also getting a push, are we going to see $1000/bitcoin again?

No doubt these are interesting times for bitcoin.

Without a doubt bitcoin would have been at least double the price what it is now if it weren't because of all the exchange failures, this makes me believe the fair brice of bitcoin is much higher.

[albert73]

...

GREECE is an excellent reason for there to be more BTC ATMs.  Last I heard there was just one for all of Greece.

There is talk of a 30% haircut for bank accounts over $100,000 euros there in Greece...


We need more BTC ATMs everywhere.  And STAT!

It's worse than that, they are going to stop people taking cash out of their safety deposit boxes held in Greek banks. That's really crappy and a good reason to buy Bitcoins. It goes to show you can't trust the bank with your money in a crisis.

Wow, so much for Greeks who thought they were keeping their cash safe in bank vaults...  


"Greeks cannot withdraw cash left in safe deposit boxes at Greek banks as long as capital restrictions remain in place, a deputy finance minister told Greek television on Sunday."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-05/eurogroup-shock-finance-ministers-would-not-know-what-discuss-after-greferendum-stun

[gogxmagog]

agreed with the Greeks working for BTC, accepting it instead of credit. It's not going to make a huge difference this time around, too late this time, but this is the perfect opportunity for a true BTC ecosystem to occur. If everyone was using BTC for every purchase and being paid in BTC, that is actually the true point of the whole experiment. NOT buy/sell/moon. That economy is just specious.

[gentlemand]

Buying bitcoins with bank accounts closed is not an option. Maybe via localbitcoins.com in cash deals...

Greeks won't buy in in large numbers. Cash will be far too valuable for day to day transactions to spend it on BTC. I think there is a Greek exchange and bank transfers within the country are fine. I'm not sure how long it would last if people rushed for it though.

[redsn0w]

if the No will win then in that case it does not mean that Greece will leave the Eu zone . However I also think the referendum has affected (positively) the bitcoin price.

[albert73]

agreed with the Greeks working for BTC, accepting it instead of credit. It's not going to make a huge difference this time around, too late this time, but this is the perfect opportunity for a true BTC ecosystem to occur. If everyone was using BTC for every purchase and being paid in BTC, that is actually the true point of the whole experiment. NOT buy/sell/moon. That economy is just specious.

Isn't there a website that gives you a virtual debit card number that you can use online like a real debit card, and top it up with Bitcoin? If there is the Greeks could use it to avoid the blockade against Greek online debit card purchases currently in force? it would let the Greeks use Bitcoin for purchases in a roundabout way.

Edit/

There are more virtual credit cards you can top up with Bitcoin than I thought. Top of the list is BitPlastic.

https://bitplastic.com/bitcoin-debit-card

[jc12345]

Business in Greece must start to accept Bitcoin on a wide scale, including international airlines, hotels and restaurants. Fiat money will become scarce there soon. All they need as a bare minimum is a piece of paper with a QR code on it and people can pay with mobile wallets, although ATMs and Paypoint terminals will also be needed over time. There are various ways to convert BTC to fiat if they want to or they can just full out start accepting it without converting to fiat. Exporters to Greece can also start accepting BTC and then the businesses in Greece can use their BTC to pay for their imports. If businesses accept BTC the tourists can also pay with BTC. There is no haircut ever for BTC accounts.

I know this is probably utopian, but if there ever was a golden opportunity for BTC in a country this is it.

[unamis76]

As for Bitcoin, I highly doubt that greek people are moving the price. It's probably just whales speculating on the referendum outcome (and "NO" seems to spike the whales quite a bit)

This is always the case... LoLz

We don't always have proof to say that it's ALWAYS the case, as we don't have proof to say otherwise...

...

GREECE is an excellent reason for there to be more BTC ATMs.  Last I heard there was just one for all of Greece.

There is talk of a 30% haircut for bank accounts over $100,000 euros there in Greece...


We need more BTC ATMs everywhere.  And STAT!

Pretty serious news. Where did you read about those 30%?

if the No will win then in that case it does not mean that Greece will leave the Eu zone . However I also think the referendum has affected (positively) the bitcoin price.

As far as I've read, it is a strong indicator that they will leave the eurozone. And the NO is winning so far. By quite a bit.

Business in Greece must start to accept Bitcoin on a wide scale, including international airlines, hotels and restaurants. Fiat money will become scarce there soon. All they need as a bare minimum is a piece of paper with a QR code on it and people can pay with mobile wallets, although ATMs and Paypoint terminals will also be needed over time. There are various ways to convert BTC to fiat if they want to or they can just full out start accepting it without converting to fiat. Exporters to Greece can also start accepting BTC and then the businesses in Greece can use their BTC to pay for their imports. If businesses accept BTC the tourists can also pay with BTC. There is no haircut ever for BTC accounts.

I know this is probably utopian, but if there ever was a golden opportunity for BTC in a country this is it.

Utopian indeed, but it would be amazing if it would become a reality... And this is a good time to start going there!

[newcripto]

I think we will see Greece's crisis effect soon and there will be huge investment in Bitcoin in near future.This is very short period to calculate the impact.In future people will prefer to keep their savings and earnings in Bitcoin instead of banks after facing so many troubles in recent crisis.Bitcoin has huge opportunity in Greece just need more awareness and time to be well known by common people.

[gogxmagog]

I think we will see Greece's crisis effect soon and there will be huge investment in Bitcoin in near future.This is very short period to calculate the impact.In future people will prefer to keep their savings and earnings in Bitcoin instead of banks after facing so many troubles in recent crisis.Bitcoin has huge opportunity in Greece just need more awareness and time to be well known by common people.

Actually, the more I think about it, and the more I look at the past few days' charts, I believe we will see daily action much the same as today.
Greeks can only get 60 euros a day. They can't spend it all on BTC they need the necessities, so, at most, after groceries and gas etc. the average Greek will have maybe 20 euro (if even) to stash. If more than 40% of Greeks put that 20 into BTC we will see spikes in the price like today's, not insignificant, but weak and short lived. However, if this process is repeated daily and more and more Greeks get on board, it will have a deeper effect on price.

I'm no economist and I have no solid proof to back this up but it just seems rational to me.

[scarsbergholden]

If Greece leave the eurozone a lot of their people will be hurting, most likely to come a huge political change and it would be interesting to see if Russia is going to help out Greece if it does leave the Eurozone.

[unamis76]

If Greece leave the eurozone a lot of their people will be hurting, most likely to come a huge political change and it would be interesting to see if Russia is going to help out Greece if it does leave the Eurozone.

if they leave, Russia will most definitely come to them. Either Russia or China

[ingiltere]

If Greece leave the eurozone a lot of their people will be hurting, most likely to come a huge political change and it would be interesting to see if Russia is going to help out Greece if it does leave the Eurozone.

if they leave, Russia will most definitely come to them. Either Russia or China

Why Russia or China?

Greece was under Turkish rule for 400 years*, They can exit Euro and adopt Turkish Lira

Turkish rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greece#Ottoman_rule_.2815th_century_.E2.80.93_1821.29

[unamis76]

If Greece leave the eurozone a lot of their people will be hurting, most likely to come a huge political change and it would be interesting to see if Russia is going to help out Greece if it does leave the Eurozone.

if they leave, Russia will most definitely come to them. Either Russia or China

Why Russia or China?

Greece was under Turkish rule for 400 years*, They can exit Euro and adopt Turkish Lira

Turkish rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greece#Ottoman_rule_.2815th_century_.E2.80.93_1821.29

Greece is a strategic country in what concerns military purposes. It's also home to a government who said "we don't pay" and who is questioning the authority of the EU leaders and isn't accepting their terms as is. This is pleasant to those countries.

Now I question you, why Turkey? I haven't been seeing reports or rumors of such collaboration in the news, and historical reasons aren't enough, I think

[albert73]

If Greece leave the eurozone a lot of their people will be hurting, most likely to come a huge political change and it would be interesting to see if Russia is going to help out Greece if it does leave the Eurozone.

if they leave, Russia will most definitely come to them. Either Russia or China

Why Russia or China?

Greece was under Turkish rule for 400 years*, They can exit Euro and adopt Turkish Lira

Turkish rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greece#Ottoman_rule_.2815th_century_.E2.80.93_1821.29

Greece is a strategic country in what concerns military purposes. It's also home to a government who said "we don't pay" and who is questioning the authority of the EU leaders and isn't accepting their terms as is. This is pleasant to those countries.

Now I question you, why Turkey? I haven't been seeing reports or rumors of such collaboration in the news, and historical reasons aren't enough, I think

Russia has signed a deal with Greece to build a gas pipeline through it to supply Europe. That's going to be very lucrative to Russia and is a good reason for it to help Greece financially. Russia already said it would consider helping financially if Greece is in dire need.

[OROBTC]

...

unamis76

Re the idea of a 30% haircut ("bail-in") in Greece, here is a link (July 3):

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-03/greek-banks-considering-30-haircut-deposits-over-%E2%82%AC8000-ft-reports

Do check out the cartoon ("Bankruptcy Cypriot Style").

If ANY kind of bail-in happens, this would be the second time in Europe.  IMO it would rive the demand for BTC up a lot once people start thinking...

[unamis76]

If Greece leave the eurozone a lot of their people will be hurting, most likely to come a huge political change and it would be interesting to see if Russia is going to help out Greece if it does leave the Eurozone.

if they leave, Russia will most definitely come to them. Either Russia or China

Why Russia or China?

Greece was under Turkish rule for 400 years*, They can exit Euro and adopt Turkish Lira

Turkish rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greece#Ottoman_rule_.2815th_century_.E2.80.93_1821.29

Greece is a strategic country in what concerns military purposes. It's also home to a government who said "we don't pay" and who is questioning the authority of the EU leaders and isn't accepting their terms as is. This is pleasant to those countries.

Now I question you, why Turkey? I haven't been seeing reports or rumors of such collaboration in the news, and historical reasons aren't enough, I think

Russia has signed a deal with Greece to build a gas pipeline through it to supply Europe. That's going to be very lucrative to Russia and is a good reason for it to help Greece financially. Russia already said it would consider helping financially if Greece is in dire need.

Yes, I forgot to mention that. The has pipe is big news. They are surely becoming friends and Moscow is going to be really close to Athens if Greece leaves the eurozone.

...

unamis76

Re the idea of a 30% haircut ("bail-in") in Greece, here is a link (July 3):

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-03/greek-banks-considering-30-haircut-deposits-over-%E2%82%AC8000-ft-reports

Do check out the cartoon ("Bankruptcy Cypriot Style").

If ANY kind of bail-in happens, this would be the second time in Europe.  IMO it would rive the demand for BTC up a lot once people start thinking...

Truly devastating if this happens. let's see if it isn't more than a "malicious rumor". Greeks will have to start thinking seriously if this happens (thinking in BTC, of course )

[LiteCoinGuy]

no more Varoufakis 

[scarsbergholden]

The political games on this greece crysis are just crazy, then we have to see and wait what comes of Greece leaving the Eurozone, it looks like the pipeline has a lot of benefits for greece https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGq8C3SEay8

[qwep]

The political games on this greece crysis are just crazy, then we have to see and wait what comes of Greece leaving the Eurozone, it looks like the pipeline has a lot of benefits for greece https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGq8C3SEay8

RT is now like the trendy online news media to go to i guess, Good info tho.

Greece leaving the Euro zone or not is a big political game.

[fox19891989]

It is good speculation for bitcoin actually, it is very awesome haha, I remember bitcoin's first bubble came in early 2013, because of Cyprus, so we can see the price is going up again, I think people are speculating bitcoin and Greece, we may see next bubble for bitcoin is incoming, let's make fiat money from this time, and sell high buy low is the always the best tactic.

[scarsbergholden]

It is good speculation for bitcoin actually, it is very awesome haha, I remember bitcoin's first bubble came in early 2013, because of Cyprus, so we can see the price is going up again, I think people are speculating bitcoin and Greece, we may see next bubble for bitcoin is incoming, let's make fiat money from this time, and sell high buy low is the always the best tactic.

Yea is fun to see the media just making more and more statement about bitcoin and what could be a possible solution, just in this week alone we have seen a 40 usd raise on the price, imagine if there was some promo about bitcoin in Greece or if Roger ver was in Greece right now!

[chrisvl]

Some peoples wish a Grexit only to see the bitcoin price increasing and sell them

flip side

[abcdave]

Some peoples wish a Grexit only to see the bitcoin price increasing and sell them

flip side

Well sadly some people only care about profit but there are different types of bitcoiners. Some care about bitcoin actually freeing or liberating people whilst others just want a quick profit. Of course there are those in between too. I'd like the price to rise but only so I can get more bang for my buck and would want to actually spend my coins on goods/services as opposed to cash them out.

[unamis76]

no more Varoufakis 

I think he didn't do wrong in leaving. Nobody liked him in the Eurogroup, Tsipras handles negotiations pretty well (some greeks say that he should be prime minister and replace Varoufakis at the same time) and Varoufakis would probably make too many demands, prolonging the negotiations way further and making things worse for Greece.

The political games on this greece crysis are just crazy, then we have to see and wait what comes of Greece leaving the Eurozone, it looks like the pipeline has a lot of benefits for greece https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGq8C3SEay8

Yes, quite a lot of b€n€fits as you can see

[Amph]

Some peoples wish a Grexit only to see the bitcoin price increasing and sell them

flip side

some want the price to rise not because they need to be rich, but because they can acquire more thing with just one bitcoin, spending bitcoin now with such ridiculous value, it feel like a waste, when you consider that in the future a whole bitcoin can buy you a car or even an house, in a very distant future...

[chrisvl]

Some peoples wish a Grexit only to see the bitcoin price increasing and sell them

flip side

some want the price to rise not because they need to be rich, but because they can acquire more thing with just one bitcoin, spending bitcoin now with such ridiculous value, it feel like a waste, when you consider that in the future a whole bitcoin can buy you a car or even an house, in a very distant future...

70% of bitcoin users wants to be rich using bitcoin..

[Snorek]

Bitcoin is till treated by majority of its users as a speculation tool instead of full fledged payment method and currency. We still are community full of holders.
Linking Greece with bitcoin is wishful thinking imo, for greeks Bitcoin is just hipster tool, it is not suitable replace euro on a daily basis.
Maybe Bitcoin will be utilized more when Greeks will return to Drachma (if they do it) Because with strong euro there is no point really.

[ebliever]

1. As many have mentioned, Greeks currently are cash-poor and likely to remain such in the near term, so they can't easily buy bitcoin directly.

2. On the flip side, some observe that this is an excellent opportunity for Greek businesses, particularly tourist ones, to start accepting bitcoin as a means of evading currency controls and the whole banking system. Once bitcoin starts flowing in through tourism and any other export industries, it can begin circulating within a new Grecian bitcoin ecosystem and more Greek businesses begin accepting it.

3. Greeks are beginning to grow very anxious, and the reports that banks may run dry within a day or two, and rumors of huge confiscations of bank deposits are going to cause desperation sooner than later. If the right tools are presented to them to use bitcoin, I think we could indeed see a great many Greeks turn to bitcoin because of that desperation and frustration with the powers that be.

I said a few days ago that I don't really see a near-term risk to the price of bitcoin. So far so good, but I think this is just the prologue unless one side caves quickly in the political squabbling. And even then there is a lot of damage to be done, which will still help drive people to bitcoin.

There are millions more in Portugal, Spain, Italy and elsewhere who also have to be looking at this and thinking "Geez, I can't afford to wait until the banks close on me. I've got to make sure I have an exit strategy NOW!" Bitcoin and the alts will be fighting with gold/silver for their funds.

[jonald_fyookball]

Greece isn't the point.  The point is, if they can give a haircut, whose next?
Your money isn't safe in fiat. 

[OROBTC]

...

ebliever & jonald_fyookball

Correct!  While it is too late (for now) for Greeks to buy into BTC in a wholesale way, it is NOT too late for people in the other countries at risk:

Portugal
Spain
Italy

and France?

If Greece "bails-in" bank accounts for anything like 30%, then I would think that citizens of those countries at risk would start to act. 

Who wants to lose 30% of their savings?

[bryant.coleman]

Tsipras has replaced the extremist Yanis Varoufakis with the more moderate Euclid Tsakalotos. Perhaps he is signalling that Greece still want to remain in the Eurozone. Now it is up to frau Merkel and François Hollande to decide, whether they want to lose Greece to Russia or avert that by writing off a part of the Greek debt. 

[OROBTC]

...

bryant.coleman

I cannot make definitive comments on Greece, only offer observations based on financial behavior and history.

Clearly there have been many years of misbehavior by Greece (mainly corruption and too much spending).  And there is LOTS of blame to go around.  But recall that the last government of Greece was Socialist.  And Tsipras (Syriza), even more Socialist, won by promising a more radical solution than the prior governments.

I only see difficult problems for Greece.  They need BIG CHANGES, including to their culture (not just cutting spending, etc.).  Granted, the Troika needs to bend some, but Greece does owe the money.


"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
- Margaret Thatcher

*   *   *

Varoufakis may (and I don't know...) have left to avoid becoming a scapegoat.

[unamis76]

There are millions more in Portugal, Spain, Italy and elsewhere who also have to be looking at this and thinking "Geez, I can't afford to wait until the banks close on me. I've got to make sure I have an exit strategy NOW!" Bitcoin and the alts will be fighting with gold/silver for their funds.

Another key issue... I know people from all these countries, and they are worried about going the same way as Greece or worse, but they aren't really doing much to search for an exit way. Unfortunately I think most Europe will only search for Bitcoin when they hit the dead end!

[gentlemand]

Another key issue... I know people from all these countries, and they are worried about going the same way as Greece or worse, but they aren't really doing much to search for an exit way. Unfortunately I think most Europe will only search for Bitcoin when they hit the dead end!

That's human nature in general. Greeks should've educated themselves on alternatives six or more months ago. If it does happen in another country it'll be the same cycle. Those who could've benefited left it far too late to protect themselves.

[cysive]

FWIW, Bitfinix, located in Italy is now leading in volume.

[ebliever]

When you lend money you assume a risk of default from the other party. Thats basic economics. There is no gain without risk. So greedy people that loaded on junk grade bonds from Greece and now are suffering the consequences, should have predicted this.

The way I see it, you've got an alcoholic (Greece), and a bartender (Germany) who should know better but kept giving him drinks. The alcoholic bears full responsibility for their actions, but a pox on the bartender as well for aiding and abetting the acoholic's dysfunctional behavior.

In my mind it's downright immoral for people to be buying the government debt of heavily indebted countries like Japan, Greece, USA, Italy, Spain, etc. All you are doing is helping them sell their own children (literally!) into debt slavery.

[NorrisK]

...

NorrisK

Actually I am thinking BTC ATMs more about the USA.  It is more-or-less too late in Greece's case, as you point out.

The time to buy some BTC (at least for cash), is while there still is cash.  Don't wait around until The End.  Preparation is just smart.

GREECE also shows that it is smart to have CASH on hand.  It is thought that the average American only has some $50 in his wallet at a given time.  Don't be average.  Have more cash just in case.

Cash + BTC + Gold = Comforting Diversification

Maybe then Spain, Portugal and Italy should start hoarding BTC then just in case Myself I don't even have 50 in cash on me ever, unless I go clubbing or something.. Maybe it is good to have some more lying around just in case..

[scarsbergholden]

Cnn money calls the greece drama a tiny cloud that what could happen in china with the current stocks falls do to margin stock buying http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/06/investing/stocks-market-china-greece/index.html?iid=hp-toplead-dom

check it out, if the #2 economy falls how big with the hype get with bitcoin?

[ebliever]

Maybe then Spain, Portugal and Italy should start hoarding BTC then just in case Myself I don't even have 50 in cash on me ever, unless I go clubbing or something.. Maybe it is good to have some more lying around just in case..

Given that banks don't pay any measurable interest on checking/savings accounts any more, I think it would be VERY prudent for citizens of other indebted economies to be putting a good chunk of their savings in bitcoin at this point. Greece ought to be a wake-up call.