What can greece central bank do?

[johnyj]

You dont understend how Eurozone isworking,EBC and national central banks
Lets take Germany like example
Bundesbank president were warning Merkel and EBC,that what thayaredoing is driving Europe,including Germany to catastrophe,all thatausterity,raising debts EBC QE,all that can create huge problems

And what nothing,Bundesbank ,germany central ban voice is nothing,nobodycare,In Eurozone national central banks importance is limited to almost zero.EBC is only onecentral bank for all Eurozone countries

That is even hard to believe  ,becouse eurozone countries are independent countries

Euro has been created like a political project,practically money are in Germany hands

I guess this EMU thing is a large plan by central banks, and since long ago those banks are already merged. Maybe the ECB owner is the same as GCB owner, so they treat all countries in Euro zone the same, don't want to spoil Greece government. However, just like each child have different personality, each country have its own spending habit

It seems their merger did not reach Nordic countries therefore Denmark Sweden Norway did not join EMU, still printing their own money, but get larger volatility on foreign currency market as their currency scale is too small (Swedish currency had been attacked by Soros during 90s and followed by long recession, but they still prefer their own currency) Maybe the nordic country are facing the same problem as Greece, but as long as they can print their own money (Swedish central bank has dropped to negative interest long ago), they still can hang on

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[Insertion]

So to basically summarize greeks situations.

A few people made money pocketed personally Im pretty sure from the state, then have a few experts to cook the books for last 15 years.

Then ask for money and make it seem like its a banking euro situation for greece.

They have lot of social welfare program for people so their tax money is not sufficient for all those spending. So they need to rethink about their social spending

You want to rethink social spending in a country with 25+% unemployment again. You need to rethink that line of thought. It can lead to a disaster.

Most countries in europe have 25% unemployment, it all because money printing and subsidizing crappy businesses, while keeping legit ones out with regulation.

Such an oligarchy.

These people are addicted to easy money or free money from government. They do not want to do any tough jobs and expect government to provide all white color easy jobs and more money so if you follow these strategy no country can survive for long. One should think toward working hard to earn money and not for easy money. This is the lesson for all those countries who provide more social welfare program than creating new jobs for people to work.

[MinerHQ]

So to basically summarize greeks situations.

A few people made money pocketed personally Im pretty sure from the state, then have a few experts to cook the books for last 15 years.

Then ask for money and make it seem like its a banking euro situation for greece.

They have lot of social welfare program for people so their tax money is not sufficient for all those spending. So they need to rethink about their social spending

You want to rethink social spending in a country with 25+% unemployment again. You need to rethink that line of thought. It can lead to a disaster.

Most countries in europe have 25% unemployment, it all because money printing and subsidizing crappy businesses, while keeping legit ones out with regulation.

Such an oligarchy.

These people are addicted to easy money or free money from government. They do not want to do any tough jobs and expect government to provide all white color easy jobs and more money so if you follow these strategy no country can survive for long. One should think toward working hard to earn money and not for easy money. This is the lesson for all those countries who provide more social welfare program than creating new jobs for people to work.

Yes greece should star thinking about real economy growth not just borrowing money from Europe. For that people should start working hard.

[johnyj]

These people are addicted to easy money or free money from government. They do not want to do any tough jobs and expect government to provide all white color easy jobs and more money so if you follow these strategy no country can survive for long. One should think toward working hard to earn money and not for easy money. This is the lesson for all those countries who provide more social welfare program than creating new jobs for people to work.

Yes greece should star thinking about real economy growth not just borrowing money from Europe. For that people should start working hard.

The traditional job and money relation ship has totally changed when money can be created out of nothing 44 years ago with the removal of gold standard

In a traditional system, in order to get money, you must work, either by producing something useful for others or mining gold, they are equal work, so if you work hard, you will always get more money

But after the removal of gold standard, money is created out of nothing, then it is all about how to get more money from central bank (they can create unlimited money). So even if you work hard, when you don't get money from central bank, your life will be miserable. For others who can get money from central bank, even they don't work at all, they can live like a king. That's the reason Greeks do not work while constantly seeking money from ECB, they know how this system works, they know that ECB can always create money and lend to them

Besides, we are in an over-production era, more work will just create more waste since most of the demand is fulfilled, it is making more sense to create money first, because everyone want to get money through work, then without money you won't create work

[Gronthaing]

So to basically summarize greeks situations.

A few people made money pocketed personally Im pretty sure from the state, then have a few experts to cook the books for last 15 years.

Then ask for money and make it seem like its a banking euro situation for greece.

They have lot of social welfare program for people so their tax money is not sufficient for all those spending. So they need to rethink about their social spending

You want to rethink social spending in a country with 25+% unemployment again. You need to rethink that line of thought. It can lead to a disaster.

Most countries in europe have 25% unemployment, it all because money printing and subsidizing crappy businesses, while keeping legit ones out with regulation.

Such an oligarchy.

What metrics are you using for those 25%? Average unemployment in the Euro area is 11%. From Germany's 4% to Greece with more than 25%. Don't know exactly how they calculate that. But even considering people who gave up looking for work, 25% unemployment in most countries doesn't make sense.

no, I actually think he is right, I read in a newspaper a couple weeks about unemployment regarding Europe and people are really in a jiffy over there, with 1/4th people with no jobs, I think the working and maturity of the government speaks a lot about it, printing out of debt is a shortcut to inflation.

Where can I see that 25% figure? Everywhere I look I can only see the 11% on average. I understand that probably doesn't count people who gave up looking for work. But it won't jump from 11% to 25%. See here for example: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/unemployment-rate or here http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Unemployment_rates,_seasonally_adjusted,_June_2015.png Of course that is the average so it means that there are countries that are in trouble with very high unemployment. Like Greece and Spain for example. But many others have very low unemployment.

[RealBitcoin]

Where can I see that 25% figure? Everywhere I look I can only see the 11% on average. I understand that probably doesn't count people who gave up looking for work. But it won't jump from 11% to 25%. See here for example: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/unemployment-rate or here http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Unemployment_rates,_seasonally_adjusted,_June_2015.png Of course that is the average so it means that there are countries that are in trouble with very high unemployment. Like Greece and Spain for example. But many others have very low unemployment.

Actually unemployment is more like 40-45 %

The official data books are cooked.

Plus they count in partial jobs, which are not jobs, public sector jobs, which is a burden on the economy and doesnt produce any wealth.

Not to mention that they only count you unemployed if you have applied for welfare, but after your welfare ends, you wont be counted unemployed anymore, yet you still dont have a job.

Most 20-30 year olds dont have a job, they live with their parents, yet they are not eligible for welfare since they got a "household income", but they are not counted as unemployed. I know this from experience because most of my neighbors are in this situation.

Yet they have big student debs, while they dont have a job, or they are finishing their 3rd worthless university.

It's a fucking deception going on right under your nose.

[johnyj]

Eventually unemployment will reach 90% when all the jobs are replaced by robots, we are just in a transition phase, now some of the jobs are replaced by automation and computer already, and the speed is accelerating. With super high productivity by robots in future, no one really need to work, but then the question is how would people get their income, it seems they can only get it in a way similar to what Greece is doing right now: Borrow more and more from central bank

[RealBitcoin]

Eventually unemployment will reach 90% when all the jobs are replaced by robots, we are just in a transition phase, now some of the jobs are replaced by automation and computer already, and the speed is accelerating. With super high productivity by robots in future, no one really need to work, but then the question is how would people get their income, it seems they can only get it in a way similar to what Greece is doing right now: Borrow more and more from central bank

Yep I already talked about this in this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg12158933#msg12158933

There are not many forks where the future can fork, and all outcomes are predictable once they get set in. The current money printing scheme wont last for long, but what comes next wont necessarly be better.

With robots the human labour problem would be solved, however new problems could arise, mostly how the elite would use eugenics to get rid of unproductive people.

[ummina]

Since March, as a way to pump money into the eurozone economy, the central bank has been buying bonds issued by eurozone countries, along with other debt, at a rate of 60 billion euros, or $67 billion, a month.

Greek government bonds are ineligible as long as the country is not adhering to conditions set by its main creditors: the other eurozone countries and the International Monetary Fund.

If Greece got back into a creditor-approved aid program, the European Central Bank could begin buying its bonds in large quantities.

That would be a boon for Greek banks, which could unload their large holdings of Greek government bonds. They could then use the cash to extend loans and help restart the Greek economy. The government might also benefit from lower market interest rates.

Mario Draghi, the president of the European Central Bank, hinted at such benefits for Greece at a news conference last month in Frankfurt.

If there were a “strong agreement,” he said, “everything else would then follow.”

“And I’m pretty sure it would follow easily,” he added.

full article you can watch on here guys http://www.nytimes.com/live/greek-debt-crisis-live-updates/how-the-european-central-bank-could-really-help-greece/

[wxa7115]

I don't really understand the organization structure of EMU. Does Greece central bank have the right to create euro? Who controls greece central bank? Why couldn't Greece central bank print some Euro to repay their IMF and ECB loan???

Well, your three questions can be answered with:

1. No
2. Not important, since they cannot print euros
3. Cannot print euros

This is why a Grexit is almost inevitable whether is tomorrow or in 20 years. And even if a Grexit ocurred and Greece central bank began printing currency, they will print drachmas but the debt is in euros.

[HarHarHar9965]

I don't really understand the organization structure of EMU. Does Greece central bank have the right to create euro? Who controls greece central bank? Why couldn't Greece central bank print some Euro to repay their IMF and ECB loan???

Greece Central bank is reliable on the Eurozone for printing more euros, they do not control the finance but are affiliated with the Euro bank which provides their funding and sanctions loans and their baliouts! The Greece Central bank is controlled by the government, which is right now indirectly controlled by the Eurozone Greece central bank does not have the authority to print euro, they only have authority to print Greece currency which well, even Greeks don't use

[johnyj]

Since March, as a way to pump money into the eurozone economy, the central bank has been buying bonds issued by eurozone countries, along with other debt, at a rate of 60 billion euros, or $67 billion, a month.

Greek government bonds are ineligible as long as the country is not adhering to conditions set by its main creditors: the other eurozone countries and the International Monetary Fund.

If Greece got back into a creditor-approved aid program, the European Central Bank could begin buying its bonds in large quantities.

That would be a boon for Greek banks, which could unload their large holdings of Greek government bonds. They could then use the cash to extend loans and help restart the Greek economy. The government might also benefit from lower market interest rates.

Mario Draghi, the president of the European Central Bank, hinted at such benefits for Greece at a news conference last month in Frankfurt.

If there were a “strong agreement,” he said, “everything else would then follow.”

“And I’m pretty sure it would follow easily,” he added.

full article you can watch on here guys http://www.nytimes.com/live/greek-debt-crisis-live-updates/how-the-european-central-bank-could-really-help-greece/

Why should Greece listen to someone that is non-greek, I guess they were cheated, by giving up the money creation right, they actually sold the whole nation to money printers

Just read this article, that's the reality behind all that: Printing money and buy assets, a typical central bank robbery scheme
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/germans-begin-the-looting-of-greece-2015-08-21

"Per provisions of the “agreement” imposed on Greece, the Athens government awarded the German company that runs the Frankfurt Airport, Fraport, a concession to operate 14 regional airports, mostly on the islands like Mykonos and Santorini favored by tourists, for up to 50 years in the first privatization of government-owned assets demanded by the creditors. "

"Fraport, which ironically is majority-owned by state and local governments in Germany, has cherry-picked among Greece’s network of regional airports to take over only those that make a profit. It is happy to leave the 30 other loss-making airports in the hands of a bankrupt state.

Greek Infrastructure Minister Christos Spirtzis told German television that this deal to take away the profitable airports and leave the ailing government with only those requiring subsidies “is more fitting for a colony than for an EU member state.”

"But the plundering that has now begun unmasks the whole euro charade for what it really is — a war of conquest by money rather than by arms."

"The war is over; let the occupation begin."

[smartkiller]

I guess this EMU thing is a large plan by central banks,
and since long ago those banks are already merged.
Maybe the ECB owner is the same as GCB owner, so they
treat all countries in Euro zone the same, don't want to
spoil Greece government. However, just like each child
have different personality, each country have its own
spending habit.

[Pab]

You dont understend how Eurozone isworking,EBC and national central banks
Lets take Germany like example
Bundesbank president were warning Merkel and EBC,that what thayaredoing is driving Europe,including Germany to catastrophe,all thatausterity,raising debts EBC QE,all that can create huge problems

And what nothing,Bundesbank ,germany central ban voice is nothing,nobodycare,In Eurozone national central banks importance is limited to almost zero.EBC is only onecentral bank for all Eurozone countries

That is even hard to believe  ,becouse eurozone countries are independent countries

Euro has been created like a political project,practically money are in Germany hands

I guess this EMU thing is a large plan by central banks, and since long ago those banks are already merged. Maybe the ECB owner is the same as GCB owner, so they treat all countries in Euro zone the same, don't want to spoil Greece government. However, just like each child have different personality, each country have its own spending habit

It seems their merger did not reach Nordic countries therefore Denmark Sweden Norway did not join EMU, still printing their own money, but get larger volatility on foreign currency market as their currency scale is too small (Swedish currency had been attacked by Soros during 90s and followed by long recession, but they still prefer their own currency) Maybe the nordic country are facing the same problem as Greece, but as long as they can print their own money (Swedish central bank has dropped to negative interest long ago), they still can hang on

Finland is with Euro,nordic country,thay are now facing very deep crisis

Much better for any country is to manage his own monetary policy

[johnyj]

Finland is with Euro,nordic country,thay are now facing very deep crisis

Much better for any country is to manage his own monetary policy

I heard that from a few years back Finnish people are no longer learning swedish in their school, traditionally they all learn swedish in school and talks good swedish. Maybe they would start to learn German some years later

[Gronthaing]

Actually unemployment is more like 40-45 %

The official data books are cooked.

Plus they count in partial jobs, which are not jobs, public sector jobs, which is a burden on the economy and doesnt produce any wealth.

You're saying there are maybe 70 million people unemployed in the euro area. That's a lot more than the official 17 million. I don't think that's realistic. But you're right in saying that they may be counting things that shouldn't be like part time jobs when people are underemployed. But public sector jobs aren't necessarily a burden on the economy. They can be but depends on how they are being used. For example many times they look like it because they are used as a stimulus to private companies and so don't show a profit. But that's not because they are always inefficient or a waste.

Not to mention that they only count you unemployed if you have applied for welfare, but after your welfare ends, you wont be counted unemployed anymore, yet you still dont have a job.

Most 20-30 year olds dont have a job, they live with their parents, yet they are not eligible for welfare since they got a "household income", but they are not counted as unemployed. I know this from experience because most of my neighbors are in this situation.

Yet they have big student debs, while they dont have a job, or they are finishing their 3rd worthless university.

It's a fucking deception going on right under your nose.

I suppose that depends on the country. Where are you from? And are you sure you aren't counted as unemployed if your welfare ends? Didn't know about that. Is that a common policy throughout the euro area?

[johnyj]

The government usually creates "hole digger jobs" as in: dig the hole morning and fill it up afternoon. And magically in the world of fairytales that is supposed to help the economy...  

This method works because government can always pay these hole diggers' salary with newly created fiat money. And because everyone accept fiat money as payment medium, these hole diggers could in turn spend their fiat money and they will become every business' big customer

So, as long as people want to make money, these hole diggers can help to distribute the printed money. The amazing thing is that people will always work more and produce more goods and services when they see more money, so inflation is never a concern when more money is entering economy in a controlled way

The whole system works because people believe the fiat money that hole diggers give them has real value, and this belief is almost unshakable

[wxa7115]

The government usually creates "hole digger jobs" as in: dig the hole morning and fill it up afternoon. And magically in the world of fairytales that is supposed to help the economy...  

This method works because government can always pay these hole diggers' salary with newly created fiat money. And because everyone accept fiat money as payment medium, these hole diggers could in turn spend their fiat money and they will become every business' big customer

So, as long as people want to make money, these hole diggers can help to distribute the printed money. The amazing thing is that people will always work more and produce more goods and services when they see more money, so inflation is never a concern when more money is entering economy in a controlled way

The whole system works because people believe the fiat money that hole diggers give them has real value, and this belief is almost unshakable

Yep its a horrible scam, you work on your worthless job (which doesnt help the economy) hard for a scam reward.

I start to think that they are not even stealing money from you since fiat currency is not even money, so theft doesn't happen.

Gold,silver and bitcoin is money, but fiat currency is not money, its just a worthless currency, that is due to ignorance, accepted by everybody.



Sadly when reality comes in, and this delusional fairytale economy gets blown away, people will be very disappointed and angry. And since the only person to be blamed is the person itself, yet people will still find others to blame, so another era of civil war and discrimination could happen.


Just think about it, when you work 22 days a month and at the end of month, your boss gives you a bag of air, you should demand from him to give your a real compensation of your work, and not a bag of air. Similarly its not the boss that is the guilty here, because he was stupid too to accept a bag of air as payment when he sold his product or service.

Thus if people (both worker and entrepreneur) would demand to be paid in real money, not in a sack of hot air, we could change the economy pretty fast.

I agree completely with this, currency is just a name for fake money and since you receive fake money then you do fake work.

This reminds me of the phrase… “We pretend to work, they pretend to pay us”(or something like that).

[RealBitcoin]

I agree completely with this, currency is just a name for fake money and since you receive fake money then you do fake work.

This reminds me of the phrase… “We pretend to work, they pretend to pay us”(or something like that).

It's something like this, man I saw this scene and I laughted that I almost fell on the floor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdAmYT3x480

This scene pretty much sums up the whole economy in 1 minute

[johnyj]

Thus if people (both worker and entrepreneur) would demand to be paid in real money, not in a sack of hot air, we could change the economy pretty fast.

When John Law first issued his fiat money, he applied real bills doctrine, later known as the "doctrine of the old Bank Directors of 1810: that so long as a bank issues its notes only in the discount of good bills, at not more than sixty days' date, it cannot go wrong in issuing as many as the public will receive from it."

Obviously today's fiat money system is a highly upgraded version of that practice, first they don't have real bill as backing any more, second those fiat money are not limited to validity of 60 days, but forever. It seems the general public are much more stupid than 200 years ago, thus larger scale of scam can be carried out without being noticed