Ending debt slavery - This is why Bitcoin exists and it's begun.

[Zetacoin Express]

This statement from Varoufakis the now former Greek finance minister is brave and clearly illustrates what's really happening in the world.

The referendum of 5th July will stay in history as a unique moment when a small European nation rose up against debt-bondage.


Full Text
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/06/minister-no-more/

The referendum of 5th July will stay in history as a unique moment when a small European nation rose up against debt-bondage.

Like all struggles for democratic rights, so too this historic rejection of the Eurogroup’s 25th June ultimatum comes with a large price tag attached. It is, therefore, essential that the great capital bestowed upon our government by the splendid NO vote be invested immediately into a YES to a proper resolution – to an agreement that involves debt restructuring, less austerity, redistribution in favour of the needy, and real reforms.

Soon after the announcement of the referendum results, I was made aware of a certain preference by some Eurogroup participants, and assorted ‘partners’, for my… ‘absence’ from its meetings; an idea that the Prime Minister judged to be potentially helpful to him in reaching an agreement. For this reason I am leaving the Ministry of Finance today.

I consider it my duty to help Alexis Tsipras exploit, as he sees fit, the capital that the Greek people granted us through yesterday’s referendum.

And I shall wear the creditors’ loathing with pride.

We of the Left know how to act collectively with no care for the privileges of office. I shall support fully Prime Minister Tsipras, the new Minister of Finance, and our government.

The superhuman effort to honour the brave people of Greece, and the famous OXI (NO) that they granted to democrats the world over, is just beginning.

Would you look at that, the world does have some intelligent beings after all.

This is why Bitcoin was created.

[1715317633]

1715317633

[eerygarden]

Its a nice read but I see no signs of usuary being made illegal or abolished in the fiat world.
So its business as usual.

[OnkelPaul]

Would you look at that, the world does have some intelligent beings after all.

How intelligent this decision is remains to be seen.
Greece has been in financial trouble for a long time (it's not only their own responsibility, but to quite some part it is.)
Voting "Yes" or "No" in a referendum is not going to get them out of their financial problems in the short run. The main factor in finance is trust, and they lost almost all trust and credibility. Nobody will want to lend money (be it EUR, USD, RUB, CNY or BTC) to Greece if they know that they most likely won't get it back.
Switching to drachma or bitcoin as national currency will not make things better (except that with a new drachma, they could print their own money as needed, which is an economic strategy that is generally frowned upon in bitcoindom and does not change the debt situation, it just enables national economy to continue to work somewhat.)

I don't have any solution for the greek economy, and I refuse to believe anyone who claims that they have a solution.
One thing is certain: No real solution is possible without significant changes to the greek economy. Political noise without change will not lead to a working economy.

Onkel Paul

[Possum577]

Two points:

1) Is what the EU was doing to Greece really usary or corrupt? Was Greece forced to borrow money? Was the rate higher than market rates? Was Greece forced to pay back early? - if the answer is no, than it was Greece's choice to borrow that money and they should figure out a way to pay it back.

2) The act of borrowing and lending (and the slave like feeling it can cause to those who borrow and don't pay the debt back quickly) isn't a fiat problem, it's a human problem. People and Governments decide to go into debt because they need or want something that they can't pay for. The act of lending actually pushes progress forward because it allows people and Governments to expand their world, business, operations beyond their means. It's not always a bad thing - only when the amount borrowed exceeds what can be paid back.

Debt slavery will occur with Bitcoin because people will always have a need to borrow money.

[eerygarden]

Two points:

1) Is what the EU was doing to Greece really usary or corrupt? Was Greece forced to borrow money? Was the rate higher than market rates? Was Greece forced to pay back early? - if the answer is no, than it was Greece's choice to borrow that money and they should figure out a way to pay it back.

2) The act of borrowing and lending (and the slave like feeling it can cause to those who borrow and don't pay the debt back quickly) isn't a fiat problem, it's a human problem. People and Governments decide to go into debt because they need or want something that they can't pay for. The act of lending actually pushes progress forward because it allows people and Governments to expand their world, business, operations beyond their means. It's not always a bad thing - only when the amount borrowed exceeds what can be paid back.

Debt slavery will occur with Bitcoin because people will always have a need to borrow money.

1. Greece isn't a real thing. It is imaginary and only exists in the minds of man. Representatives of this imaginary thing also exists as being legitimate in the minds of many of men, but there is an argument for it being illegitimate. It is just a maths problem. (Edit: an unsolvable maths problem)

2. If shit was cheaper people could expand their worlds just as easily. How many years would it take if each man physically built his own house? All of his life? 100k for a house at the bottom of the market is unreasonable in my opinion but when I come to be an older man I would expect the inflation to be even greater for the prices to be paid by the currently unborn because no one wants to be at the shitty end of a ponzi scheme.

If bitcoin does reach critical mass it seems a good jump from those at the end of the ponzi of fiat to be an early adopter of something new. Man can still have a head start on the unborn as they have a head start on accumulating, and then history will probably repeat itself because deep down we are all dicks (sometimes).

[manselr]

Varoufakis has been told to leave to make the negotiations with Europe easier, because Lagarde Draghi and friends hate him. So I would stop looking for anything revolutionary or new to happen, we still have a long period of talking pretending and extending until we see some real shit hitting a big fan.

[darlidada]

Varoufakis also dislike Bitcoin because deflation and decentralization

Check his blog, he made 2 articles about it.

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2014/02/15/bitcoin-a-flawed-currency-blueprint-with-a-potentially-useful-application-for-the-eurozone/
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2013/04/22/bitcoin-and-the-dangerous-fantasy-of-apolitical-money/

[eerygarden]

Varoufakis has been told to leave to make the negotiations with Europe easier, because Lagarde Draghi and friends hate him. So I would stop looking for anything revolutionary or new to happen, we still have a long period of talking pretending and extending until we see some real shit hitting a big fan.

Have you got any insights as to what the shit may be? I'm thinking supermarket shelves being limited under the guise of capital controls affecting imports.

[johnyj]

It is quite complicated higher up there, what he said could mean totally different things, no one can easily understand how such a financial system works based on debt

But one thing is for sure, the world governments are not able to repay the loan due to less and less consumption in post IT era (more and more jobs will be replaced by automation and robots, thus the total spendable income of human will keep going down. They must either borrow more money to pay the debt or seek debt relief

[Hazir]

It is funny how everyone is silent about Iceland. As you may know couple years ago Iceland was in the same state as greece. They declared bankruptcy and decided that every previous debt is illegal.
Iceland did not paid anything since then and they are happily existing now. Greece could do the same as far as I know.

[rayhan]

Bitcoin exists to end your slavery. Not the kind of slavery where you're working your ass off and getting nothing for it , except whiplashes ofcourse. Well the slavery is more modern due to the current era. Anyway. Bitcoin gives you freedom to use your currency without any further involvement.

[n2004al]

This statement from Varoufakis the now former Greek finance minister is brave and clearly illustrates what's really happening in the world.

The referendum of 5th July will stay in history as a unique moment when a small European nation rose up against debt-bondage.


Full Text
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/06/minister-no-more/

The referendum of 5th July will stay in history as a unique moment when a small European nation rose up against debt-bondage.

Like all struggles for democratic rights, so too this historic rejection of the Eurogroup’s 25th June ultimatum comes with a large price tag attached. It is, therefore, essential that the great capital bestowed upon our government by the splendid NO vote be invested immediately into a YES to a proper resolution – to an agreement that involves debt restructuring, less austerity, redistribution in favour of the needy, and real reforms.

Soon after the announcement of the referendum results, I was made aware of a certain preference by some Eurogroup participants, and assorted ‘partners’, for my… ‘absence’ from its meetings; an idea that the Prime Minister judged to be potentially helpful to him in reaching an agreement. For this reason I am leaving the Ministry of Finance today.

I consider it my duty to help Alexis Tsipras exploit, as he sees fit, the capital that the Greek people granted us through yesterday’s referendum.

And I shall wear the creditors’ loathing with pride.

We of the Left know how to act collectively with no care for the privileges of office. I shall support fully Prime Minister Tsipras, the new Minister of Finance, and our government.

The superhuman effort to honour the brave people of Greece, and the famous OXI (NO) that they granted to democrats the world over, is just beginning.

Would you look at that, the world does have some intelligent beings after all.

This is why Bitcoin was created.

The most stupidity that an human being can do is to connect the "intelligence" of one speech or something like that of Varoufakis which have as a principal purpose of his life the excessive preoccupation with or admiration of oneself with the intelligence of Satoshi Nakamoto which it has created one of most wonderful invention of century and is so modest as to be disappeared and to not enjoy the deserved merits of its invention.

The narcissism of Varoufakis go over everything and first of all is showed with its behavior with all the European leaders in all they meetings. Even he is a poor debtor. No other merits is known as a foreign minister. But he want world recognition. So must be unique in its words with them. Such he was. For something which a shame for its country. To not get back the money taken from the others.

Satoshi Nakamoto has created something that has passionate all the world and find followers and enthusiast every new day which pass. And yet he remain in silence and in anonymity. Who can imagine the honors that he will and can receive from everyone if will be shown? Yet him remain hidden.

Can everyone who will read this post the stupidity of this comparison?

And then the other shame. The title of "the speech" of Varoufakis with capital letters. The glory of something dirty and shameful. Glory to one people that vote to not give back the money to the owners. Money that made them rich and doing "la bella vita" without working and without doing nothing.

I have no other words for this thread.

[johnyj]

This statement from Varoufakis the now former Greek finance minister is brave and clearly illustrates what's really happening in the world.

The referendum of 5th July will stay in history as a unique moment when a small European nation rose up against debt-bondage.


Full Text
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/06/minister-no-more/

The referendum of 5th July will stay in history as a unique moment when a small European nation rose up against debt-bondage.

Like all struggles for democratic rights, so too this historic rejection of the Eurogroup’s 25th June ultimatum comes with a large price tag attached. It is, therefore, essential that the great capital bestowed upon our government by the splendid NO vote be invested immediately into a YES to a proper resolution – to an agreement that involves debt restructuring, less austerity, redistribution in favour of the needy, and real reforms.

Soon after the announcement of the referendum results, I was made aware of a certain preference by some Eurogroup participants, and assorted ‘partners’, for my… ‘absence’ from its meetings; an idea that the Prime Minister judged to be potentially helpful to him in reaching an agreement. For this reason I am leaving the Ministry of Finance today.

I consider it my duty to help Alexis Tsipras exploit, as he sees fit, the capital that the Greek people granted us through yesterday’s referendum.

And I shall wear the creditors’ loathing with pride.

We of the Left know how to act collectively with no care for the privileges of office. I shall support fully Prime Minister Tsipras, the new Minister of Finance, and our government.

The superhuman effort to honour the brave people of Greece, and the famous OXI (NO) that they granted to democrats the world over, is just beginning.

Would you look at that, the world does have some intelligent beings after all.

This is why Bitcoin was created.

The most stupidity that an human being can do is to connect the "intelligence" of one speech or something like that of Varoufakis which have as a principal purpose of his life the excessive preoccupation with or admiration of oneself with the intelligence of Satoshi Nakamoto which it has created one of most wonderful invention of century and is so modest as to be disappeared and to not enjoy the deserved merits of its invention.

The narcissism of Varoufakis go over everything and first of all is showed with its behavior with all the European leaders in all they meetings. Even he is a poor debtor. No other merits is known as a foreign minister. But he want world recognition. So must be unique in its words with them. Such he was. For something which a shame for its country. To not get back the money taken from the others.

Satoshi Nakamoto has created something that has passionate all the world and find followers and enthusiast every new day which pass. And yet he remain in silence and in anonymity. Who can imagine the honors that he will and can receive from everyone if will be shown? Yet him remain hidden.

Can everyone who will read this post the stupidity of this comparison?

And then the other shame. The title of "the speech" of Varoufakis with capital letters. The glory of something dirty and shameful. Glory to one people that vote to not give back the money to the owners. Money that made them rich and doing "la bella vita" without working and without doing nothing.

I have no other words for this thread.

If you borrow real money that is created by work/resource, then it is honorable to return it in time, that is for sure. But if you borrow some paper money that is created out of nothing, then clever people will try to return as little as possible, because once they spend that borrowed paper successfully, they have successfully dumped it to the next fool who exchange something valuable for nothing. The game is over, it does not hurt anyone if they don't return those paper that is created from thin air. Those who still return paper money is either too stupid to understand how fiat money works or voluntarily to work for the money printers for free

[NorrisK]

This statement from Varoufakis the now former Greek finance minister is brave and clearly illustrates what's really happening in the world.

The referendum of 5th July will stay in history as a unique moment when a small European nation rose up against debt-bondage.


Full Text
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/06/minister-no-more/

The referendum of 5th July will stay in history as a unique moment when a small European nation rose up against debt-bondage.

Like all struggles for democratic rights, so too this historic rejection of the Eurogroup’s 25th June ultimatum comes with a large price tag attached. It is, therefore, essential that the great capital bestowed upon our government by the splendid NO vote be invested immediately into a YES to a proper resolution – to an agreement that involves debt restructuring, less austerity, redistribution in favour of the needy, and real reforms.

Soon after the announcement of the referendum results, I was made aware of a certain preference by some Eurogroup participants, and assorted ‘partners’, for my… ‘absence’ from its meetings; an idea that the Prime Minister judged to be potentially helpful to him in reaching an agreement. For this reason I am leaving the Ministry of Finance today.

I consider it my duty to help Alexis Tsipras exploit, as he sees fit, the capital that the Greek people granted us through yesterday’s referendum.

And I shall wear the creditors’ loathing with pride.

We of the Left know how to act collectively with no care for the privileges of office. I shall support fully Prime Minister Tsipras, the new Minister of Finance, and our government.

The superhuman effort to honour the brave people of Greece, and the famous OXI (NO) that they granted to democrats the world over, is just beginning.

Would you look at that, the world does have some intelligent beings after all.

This is why Bitcoin was created.

The most stupidity that an human being can do is to connect the "intelligence" of one speech or something like that of Varoufakis which have as a principal purpose of his life the excessive preoccupation with or admiration of oneself with the intelligence of Satoshi Nakamoto which it has created one of most wonderful invention of century and is so modest as to be disappeared and to not enjoy the deserved merits of its invention.

The narcissism of Varoufakis go over everything and first of all is showed with its behavior with all the European leaders in all they meetings. Even he is a poor debtor. No other merits is known as a foreign minister. But he want world recognition. So must be unique in its words with them. Such he was. For something which a shame for its country. To not get back the money taken from the others.

Satoshi Nakamoto has created something that has passionate all the world and find followers and enthusiast every new day which pass. And yet he remain in silence and in anonymity. Who can imagine the honors that he will and can receive from everyone if will be shown? Yet him remain hidden.

Can everyone who will read this post the stupidity of this comparison?

And then the other shame. The title of "the speech" of Varoufakis with capital letters. The glory of something dirty and shameful. Glory to one people that vote to not give back the money to the owners. Money that made them rich and doing "la bella vita" without working and without doing nothing.

I have no other words for this thread.

If you borrow real money that is created by work/resource, then it is honorable to return it in time, that is for sure. But if you borrow some paper money that is created out of nothing, then clever people will try to return as little as possible, because once they spend that borrowed paper successfully, they have successfully dumped it to the next fool who exchange something valuable for nothing. The game is over, it does not hurt anyone if they don't return those paper that is created from thin air. Those who still return paper money is either too stupid to understand how fiat money works or voluntarily to work for the money printers for free

You seem to forget that the value of the paper money is somehow created. The person that has the paper money to spend, provided a service, like building a road, helping a business out, whatever, in return he gets an IOU that can be handed out to more people than just the person he provided the service for.

The problem is indeed, that 1. more paper enters than service is provided. 2. more money is spent than service is provided.

[johnyj]

You seem to forget that the value of the paper money is somehow created. The person that has the paper money to spend, provided a service, like building a road, helping a business out, whatever, in return he gets an IOU that can be handed out to more people than just the person he provided the service for.

The problem is indeed, that 1. more paper enters than service is provided. 2. more money is spent than service is provided.

The difference lies in how the money is created. If it is created by similar production effort that equal to the exchanged product/service, then its fair trade. If it is created as IOU (a promise out of thin air), then it is a scam: you can keep promising without producing anything, as long as you successfully make anyone else believe its value and use it as payment medium

[TexasHuck]

This still holds true.  Ending debt slavery.... MAN WE NEED THIS!!!!

[iamTom123]

Would you look at that, the world does have some intelligent beings after all.

How intelligent this decision is remains to be seen. Greece has been in financial trouble for a long time (it's not only their own responsibility, but to quite some part it is.) Voting "Yes" or "No" in a referendum is not going to get them out of their financial problems in the short run. The main factor in finance is trust, and they lost almost all trust and credibility. Nobody will want to lend money (be it EUR, USD, RUB, CNY or BTC) to Greece if they know that they most likely won't get it back.
Switching to drachma or bitcoin as national currency will not make things better (except that with a new drachma, they could print their own money as needed, which is an economic strategy that is generally frowned upon in bitcoindom and does not change the debt situation, it just enables national economy to continue to work somewhat.)

I don't have any solution for the greek economy, and I refuse to believe anyone who claims that they have a solution.
One thing is certain: No real solution is possible without significant changes to the greek economy. Political noise without change will not lead to a working economy.

Onkel Paul

Bitcoin will never the solution to an economy mired in so many mistakes of the past and whose fruits of wrong decisions are right now haunting them. Yes, Bitcoin can be of help but I don't think it is the real solution. Bitcoin will not pay any nation's debt. Bitcoin can not give a leader the needed political will to solve problems. Bitcoin is not the savior the country is looking for...the people should look it up themselves analyze the mistakes and unite as to what to do next.

The government has to learn to fix their gargantuan problems and slowly build the kind of confidence and trust needed for an economy to grow again. And they should accept responsibility and must renounce policies that created the present environment. Easy words and I know that in a gloomy political and economic climate those are not really easy to accomplish.

[beerlover]

This still holds true.  Ending debt slavery.... MAN WE NEED THIS!!!!

I am very much positive regarding this that Bitcoin will one day eliminate the Debt Slavery. This could be one of the reasons of introducing Bitcoin apart from helping out the investors in making a lot of money from it.

[Beerwizzard]

Ending debt slavery - This is why Bitcoin exists and it's begun.

It doesent seem ike the bitcoin i a solution for debts that you or your country don't want to pay. Creating a new kind of money won't solve your problems.
But anyway i'm curious how do you think the bitcoin can solve the debt crisis?

[erre]

Ending debt slavery - This is why Bitcoin exists and it's begun.

It doesent seem ike the bitcoin i a solution for debts that you or your country don't want to pay. Creating a new kind of money won't solve your problems.
But anyway i'm curious how do you think the bitcoin can solve the debt crisis?

Fist of all, you can't lend mre money tha you don't actually have.
This alone would be a big vantage when compared to fiat