Fundraising: Dedicated servers for Electrum servers (block size issue)

[BadAss.Sx]

While the conversation is on going to raise the block size I want to propose something. When the block size is going to be raised in the future, it will be harder to maintain an Electrum node cause of the resources it will need. I am willing to buy 2 dedicated servers for this, but i would like to ask a small fee from my Electrum server users.
        
I need 4BTC for one year per server to hang up the server in a data centre for the bandwidth (directly to the AMS-IX backbone). If anyone is willing to give me a small fee so I can pay the annual bill I'll promise to maintain the Electrum servers after they have raised the block size to 8MB or 20MB. Many recent Electrum servers will stop, unless the developers of Electrum Server are going to rewrite the code. If that happens, i will use the servers to maintain several Electrum servers without logging.
        
You can send your donation to:
        
1MAQCfCc8QYZgwC9zo3JKCKigrNKwTwkb3
        
The address will be frozen in my wallet, so all donations stays there until i can pay the annual bill.

The funds can be checked on https://blockchain.info/address/1MAQCfCc8QYZgwC9zo3JKCKigrNKwTwkb3

[1714721805]

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[1714721805]

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[1714721805]

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[ColderThanIce]

Why do you need 4 BTC to maintain two nodes a single node for a year? It would be much cheaper to rent out a VPS for ~ $8 USD to $10 USD per month that would have something like 100 GB of HDD space, and 10TB of traffic on a 1Gbps link. Plus, unless you have an escrow hold the funds I doubt anyone will be interested in donating to you, since you have very little trust.

[BadAss.Sx]

Did you read? When the block size get raised to 8MB or 20MB it will be to hard for just a VPS to maintain an Electrum Server because of the resources it is going to need. And 100GB HDD space is nothing for an Electrum Server. You have to maintain the full BTC blockchain and Electrum database which is also 20GB. When more tx are need to processed in the future your VPS will run out of resources (i/O errors for instance, CPU issues and even memory issues). Your 10USD per month VPS will collapse and eventually people will stop maintaining an Electrum Server for free. Which is bad, because Electrum clients needs them.

4BTC (or maybe less when BTC price is going up) per year to get directly connected to the AMS-IX backbone is a normal price. I'm willing to buy the servers at my own cost, all i ask is if Electrum users wants to donate for the bandwidth price so we can all keep enjoying Electrum servers in the future.

[unamis76]

Many Electrum servers have been run throughout the years with little to no donations. Some are repurposed full nodes... Others make them on purpose to serve Electrum clients.

I understand the need for 99% uptime and high performance Electrum servers to exist. I don't think most of the ones that are already serving the network will cease to exist out of the blue, and the block size might increase, but that doesn't mean the blockchain will have full 8mb blocks constantly. Why are you requesting funds to deploy something that won't be needed in the near future and that has no prediction on when will it be needed?

Let block size increase and let them start being bigger and bigger... And then we'll all talk

[BadAss.Sx]

Please understand that it eats resources....and with 8MB blocks with 56tx/s it is going to eat a lot more resources then it does now with 7tx/s. 56tx/s is only an 8MB block while the proposal is to upgrade the blocks every year (!) until 20MB. That is 140tx/s and affects the system resources. Your VPS host will kick you right away of the server or your Electrum Server will stop working. When Electrum server does not get its resources it needs to proces the blocks it will start lagging and lagging....a simple VPS like we have them running on now will not keep up.

Read this http://www.reddit.com/r/Electrum/comments/38qi2m/20_mb_blocks_the_end_of_electrum/

[unamis76]

Please understand that it eats resources....and with 8MB blocks with 56tx/s it is going to eat a lot of resources then it does now with 7tx/s. 56tx/s is only an 8MB block while the proposal is to upgrade the blocks every year (!). When Electrum server does not get its resources it needs to proces the blocks it will start lagging and lagging....a simple VPS like we have them running on now will not keep up.

Read this http://www.reddit.com/r/Electrum/comments/38qi2m/20_mb_blocks_the_end_of_electrum/

I am aware of the current block size discussions and I know perfectly well the kinds of resources a full node/supernode/Electrum node consumes.

To start off, the block size change hasn't been made yet, and even if the client accepting bigger blocks is released right now it will require full consensus of the network, and even then the change might not be immediate, as you may know.

When the change does materialize blocks will not be immediately full (not all blocks have 1mb in size as of now), but they will gradually increase their size with the rising adoption of Bitcoin (we sure do hope the adoption rates increase in the next few years!)

Meanwhile, while these changes occur, storage, RAM and bandwidth get cheaper; this results in cheaper and better VPS services.

Yes, running a node is hard. Yes, running a node is costly. Yes, running a node will probably be more costly if Bitcoin really picks up. Yes, requesting a compensation to use high performance nodes might be required (although I still think running a node of whatever kind should mainly be a community service based on the blockchain and the currency's value). But it's very premature to request funds that will be used in an uncertain future. It may take a few months for block to fill up... or it can take 10 years. the problem exists, but it's still premature to talk about raising the bar way higher.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but this is my opinion. I hope I made my point clear It's premature to trust Electrum node owners with funds for upgrades.

EDIT:: as an alternative, you can try and get a deal with an escrow for storing the donation coins for an uncertain amount of time. There may be escrow services willing to help on something like that.

[BadAss.Sx]

I appreciate your opinion, don't worry and my hope is still that they rewrite the code to become quicker. If that happens i can divide the server into more electrum nodes.

And i'm not after the BTC's. But i don't like the fact that it is premature to trust Electrum node owners. We are doing this for you all and as long it isn't cost you anything, you trust us. But when we ask for a donation we are all of a sudden not trustable anymore. I find that strange, but hey, that's my opinion

FTR, i am the node supplier for SuperNET, NXT and BTCD devs. They are all extremely happy with my service. My BadAss escrow service has never let anyone down or ripped any penny. Latest escrow i had was in my possession for almost a year. Like i said, i am not after peoples money. I just want to offer good services.

[unamis76]

I appreciate your opinion, don't worry and my hope is still that they rewrite the code to become quicker. If that happens i can divide the server into more electrum nodes.

And i'm not after the BTC's. But i don't like the fact that it is premature to trust Electrum node owners. We are doing this for you all and as long it isn't cost you anything, you trust us. But when we ask for a donation we are all of a sudden not trustable anymore. I find that strange, but hey, that's my opinion

FTR, i am the node supplier for SuperNET, NXT and BTCD devs. They are all extremely happy with my service. My BadAss escrow service has never let anyone down or ripped any penny. Latest escrow i had was in my possession for almost a year. Like i said, i am not after peoples money. I just want to offer good services.

Optimizations are always welcome. Let's hope they come, one day.

Electrum nodes are not trustable. When one connects to a server, you don't know who is on the other side. Although as far as I know, exploits can't simply be transmitted on an Electrum connection, the person in charge of the server can spy on data sent and received and be aware of the addresses an IP uses. If one uses Electrum, those risks should be accepted.

I know you guys do this for free, from your own good will, and that you are worried of not being able to keep up with user's demands in a way that doesn't put your finances on the red, and that people will realise we need to have better Electrum servers when it's already too late. But I'd still postpone this issue at least until the moment when block size issues are solved.

That being said, thank you for being concerned about the Electrum server community. I hope when the time is right, all server operators have the same consideration you do for his users.

[ColderThanIce]

And i'm not after the BTC's. But i don't like the fact that it is premature to trust Electrum node owners. We are doing this for you all and as long it isn't cost you anything, you trust us. But when we ask for a donation we are all of a sudden not trustable anymore. I find that strange, but hey, that's my opinion

FTR, i am the node supplier for SuperNET, NXT and BTCD devs. They are all extremely happy with my service. My BadAss escrow service has never let anyone down or ripped any penny. Latest escrow i had was in my possession for almost a year. Like i said, i am not after peoples money. I just want to offer good services.

I don't think people have a problem when service operators ask for a donation for running their service, that's fine. However asking for 4 BTC (with very little reputation on this site) to run a single Electrum node for a year seems a little absurd. There's no way that I could see it costing $1100 to maintain a single Electrum node in the next few years. Like unamis mentioned, hardware prices are going down, and the bitcoin network is growing at a gradual rate. When new block sizes are implemented, the network won't instantly be full of 8MB blocks every ten minutes, rather blocks 1.2 to 2 MB in size, and gradually grow from there in the next couple of years. So an inexpensive VPS shouldn't start lagging while running an Electrum node for at least the next year or so, as long as bitcoin adoption continues its current pattern. I could see upkeep for a full Electrum node costing something like $20 or $30 per month, but not $1100 per year (~$92 per month).

[niki25]

So, whats your opinion of what will be happening if the blocksize is raised with electrum client?.
Do you think electrum gonna rewrite the code?.
I was aware of it, since some days ago when a friend of mine told me that electrum could support up to 2.5mb blocksizes

[BadAss.Sx]

Don't think the client needs a recode...the server needs one...python will slow all things down when the block size is going to be bigger.

[btcash]

Users are not going to donate enought to keep the server running with 8 mb blocks.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Electrum/comments/38qi2m/20_mb_blocks_the_end_of_electrum/

The only solution is a subscription model. E.g. paying 12 cents a year should be ok for every user.

[BadAss.Sx]

Look, i'm not doing this fundraising just for the BTC. I'm doing this to ensure the future of Electrum and to let people be aware for the problems when the block size gets raised in the future. A simple VPS can't handle the load anymore.

The other reason is that i have two dedicated servers here at home which i want to use for the Electrum network. They were for SuperNET, but atm they can manage it with 2 servers. So i want to hang them in a decent datacenter with a direct connection to the AMS-IX backbone. So i can supply decent BadAss Electrum servers for the user. Anonymous that is, because that is the whole point behind my Electrum nodes.

That people are critical about my fundraising is no problem at all....i will show you all that i can be trusted. I will show invoices of the datacenter and if there is some btc left i will put it in the server (bigger HDD's for instance). Not a single penny will go into my pocket.