A thought...

[lorylore]

We should not compare bitcoin with VISA  (or Mastercard) because they are two different things.... However it is really interesting to see that 'someone' is spending 6-7 k dollars (in btc) per day to make this thing.

Like i stated days ago, it's quite possible that this is an orchestrated attack, and not "stress test" , and it's being done by same people that are pumping litecoin beyond any reason.
The idea is probably to make bitcoin as slow as it can get with all the spam, to promote litecoin's faster block time, and it's immunity to this current attack.
They are spending money, but they will make it worth their while in the upcoming dump, which will probably happen at the same time when they stop spamming the blockchain.

@op, bitcoin as it is today, couldn't process 1% of global adoption,and if situations like this one continue to happen, there is no future for bitcoin, that's for sure.

cheers

I'd like to see Litecoin banned completely off this forum.

Litecoin is like other altcoin and has it sector (sub-forum) here.
So no need LiteCoin to be banned

[dothebeats]

that's the point of this test, because bitcoin can't handle this, and we can't reach mainstream with the current TX limit, mainstream is far worse than just 150 tx per second, far far worse, the tx spam that you're seeing right now is nothing in comaprison, a big joke....

take a look at the TX volume of Visa for example, this is what we call mainstream

BTC will never EVER have the same TX volume as Visa. Why? because BTC will be a token for the largest financial ledger of the world. ppl wont use BTC to buy coffee. They use it to buy a house, pay tuition or simply hedge against other financial vehicle

Hmm last time I remember Roger Ver ordered a coffee in Starbucks with the help of bitcoin. Bitcoin CAN be used to buy almost anything that fiat money can buy provided that there will be merchants ready to accept bitcoin as a form of payment. Take note that bitcoin is also divisible, so even if bitcoin reach a ludicrous amount, say $10,000 a piece, you can still divide it and get a $100 out of it to pay for your coffee or meal or almost anything.

[spazzdla]

that's the point of this test, because bitcoin can't handle this, and we can't reach mainstream with the current TX limit, mainstream is far worse than just 150 tx per second, far far worse, the tx spam that you're seeing right now is nothing in comaprison, a big joke....

take a look at the TX volume of Visa for example, this is what we call mainstream

BTC will never EVER have the same TX volume as Visa. Why? because BTC will be a token for the largest financial ledger of the world. ppl wont use BTC to buy coffee. They use it to buy a house, pay tuition or simply hedge against other financial vehicle

Hmm last time I remember Roger Ver ordered a coffee in Starbucks with the help of bitcoin. Bitcoin CAN be used to buy almost anything that fiat money can buy provided that there will be merchants ready to accept bitcoin as a form of payment. Take note that bitcoin is also divisible, so even if bitcoin reach a ludicrous amount, say $10,000 a piece, you can still divide it and get a $100 out of it to pay for your coffee or meal or almost anything.

At a max of 7 transactions per second... it won't be used for buying coffee by the average person...

There is heavy debating going on about what to do...


I don't think the interent backbone will advance fast enough to follow gavin's doubling plan, it's a decent plan though, however I think inncorrect.

[pedrog]

At a max of 7 transactions per second... it won't be used for buying coffee by the average person...

There is heavy debating going on about what to do...


I don't think the interent backbone will advance fast enough to follow gavin's doubling plan, it's a decent plan though, however I think inncorrect.

It can be used for everyday purchases like buying coffee, but you need to use off-chain transactions, it would be like using Paypal, but you fund your account with bitcoin.

Imagine in your particular area there are a lot of merchants using Coinbase, you can set up a Coinbase account just for your everyday purchases, same thing with Xapo, you can still have your own wallet for purchases at merchants who do not use these kind of services.

[MarketNeutral]

that's the point of this test, because bitcoin can't handle this, and we can't reach mainstream with the current TX limit, mainstream is far worse than just 150 tx per second, far far worse, the tx spam that you're seeing right now is nothing in comaprison, a big joke....

take a look at the TX volume of Visa for example, this is what we call mainstream

BTC will never EVER have the same TX volume as Visa. Why? because BTC will be a token for the largest financial ledger of the world. ppl wont use BTC to buy coffee. They use it to buy a house, pay tuition or simply hedge against other financial vehicle

I mostly agree. I foresee bitcoin being the premier high-price, crypto-ledger-currency of the future. Buying a new yacht or paying for boarding school? Use bitcoin. Hedging your gold and platinum positions? Use bitcoin. Buying a pack of gum? Use something else.

Visa or Mastercard is a very different system with very different goals and very different vulnerabilities.

[ransomer]

We should not compare bitcoin with VISA  (or Mastercard) because they are two different things.... However it is really interesting to see that 'someone' is spending 6-7 k dollars (in btc) per day to make this thing.

Like i stated days ago, it's quite possible that this is an orchestrated attack, and not "stress test" , and it's being done by same people that are pumping litecoin beyond any reason.
The idea is probably to make bitcoin as slow as it can get with all the spam, to promote litecoin's faster block time, and it's immunity to this current attack.
They are spending money, but they will make it worth their while in the upcoming dump, which will probably happen at the same time when they stop spamming the blockchain.

@op, bitcoin as it is today, couldn't process 1% of global adoption,and if situations like this one continue to happen, there is no future for bitcoin, that's for sure.

cheers

I'd like to see Litecoin banned completely off this forum.

Why?

You think litecoin rose in the weeks up to the attack because rumours of an attack spread that this attack would expose the weakness of bitcoin and that some people would seek to litecoin?

[jeffthebaker]

When bitcoin is actually "mainstream" and the volumes of transactions that we are seeing today, is becoming a normal thing, how will the network handle it?


on a side note, does anyone know when the attack will stop? any estimates

The only plausible solution to combat large numbers of transaction is a blocksize increase. Down the road, if the general population has access to Bitcoin, 1 MB blocks will not suffice. Everyone knows this, and the current debate about is primarily in regards to when the blocksize should be increased, rather than if.

[MarketNeutral]

Cui bono?
 

[Quantus]

A large amount of the transactions on the network are spam in my humble opinion. If you cut out all the transactions under 5 cents that's like 90% of the traffic. (even before the attack)

As Bitcoin grows in popularity the network will naturally over time adjust the cutoff limits (minimum fees) so in times of heavy load micro transactions (less then 1 cent) will be "put on the back burner" till higher priority transactions with higher fees use the network and then when things calm down the smaller transactions will be validated.

I say let the market miners decide the minimum transaction fee rate.  If it gos above 50 cents will have consensus for a small 2MB block increase.

The only risk right now is decoupling of the network (mico forks) because of propagation lag; this would only get worse right now if we increased the block size.

I, for one, welcome our new mining cartel overloads.

A possible fix would be to add optional code into our network nodes to change the minimum fee required per transaction size for propagation based on the current size of the mempool. The best part is its optional and dose not require a hard fork. As the mempool size increases the minium fees necessary for propagation threw the network would rise accordingly. A simple sliding scale GUI could be added to all Full node clients for easy adjustment or be hard coded but configurable by only more tech savvy people.

[IIOII]

A large amount of the transactions on the network are spam in my humble opinion. If you cut out all the transactions under 5 cents that's like 90% of the traffic. (even before the attack)

I agree. Even with the current blocksize limit there enough room to grow if the dust is driven out.

I say let the market miners decide the minimum transaction fee rate.  If it gos above 50 cents will have consensus for a small 2MB block increase.

The only risk right now is decoupling of the network (mico forks) because of propagation lag; this would only get worse right now if we increased the block size.

I, for one, welcome our new mining cartel overloads.

A possible fix would be to add optional code into our network nodes to change the minimum fee required per transaction size for propagation based on the current size of the mempool. The best part is its optional and dose not require a hard fork. As the mempool size increases the minium fees necessary for propagation threw the network would rise accordingly. A simple sliding scale GUI could be added to all Full node clients for easy adjustment or be hard coded but configurable by only more tech savvy people.

I like your suggestions. Unfortunately the crowd is blindly following Gavin's toxic plan. Hopefully the more sane developers will prevail and a hard-fork will be prevented because that would be bad for everyone.

We need a healthy fee market with enough pressure to drive spam out. For the dust-lovers there will be alternative solutions. It's idiotic to risk the security of the whole system just to accommodate the obscure needs of one-candy-at-a-time-purchasers.

[ransomer]

A large amount of the transactions on the network are spam in my humble opinion. If you cut out all the transactions under 5 cents that's like 90% of the traffic. (even before the attack)

As Bitcoin grows in popularity the network will naturally over time adjust the cutoff limits (minimum fees) so in times of heavy load micro transactions (less then 1 cent) will be "put on the back burner" till higher priority transactions with higher fees use the network and then when things calm down the smaller transactions will be validated.

I say let the market miners decide the minimum transaction fee rate.  If it gos above 50 cents will have consensus for a small 2MB block increase.

The only risk right now is decoupling of the network (mico forks) because of propagation lag; this would only get worse right now if we increased the block size.

I, for one, welcome our new mining cartel overloads.

A possible fix would be to add optional code into our network nodes to change the minimum fee required per transaction size for propagation based on the current size of the mempool. The best part is its optional and dose not require a hard fork. As the mempool size increases the minium fees necessary for propagation threw the network would rise accordingly. A simple sliding scale GUI could be added to all Full node clients for easy adjustment or be hard coded but configurable by only more tech savvy people.

Remember that new people will want to move satoshis back and forth between online wallets and try to make paper wallets, try to get other software wallets to see how they work etc. This will involve many tiny transactions before they are reasonably familiar with how it all works.

[cellard]

BTC will never EVER have the same TX volume as Visa. Why? because BTC will be a token for the largest financial ledger of the world. ppl wont use BTC to buy coffee. They use it to buy a house, pay tuition or simply hedge against other financial vehicle

You are assuming a lot of things. In the future people may get tired of government control and they may start using it. Also you aren't considering that it will be all over the world. All over the world transactions could easily match Visa's. And trust me it will scale up to anything that's needed.

I tend to agree on meono on this one.
I belive that bitcoin will be the backbone of cryptocurrency system... bitcoin will in the future only be used to move large amound of funds between different entities. I think for everyday transaction for the normal people then will other digital currencies fill out that demand.

It only takes a couple of big infraestructures with lots of operations per second like NASDAQ to move their shit over the blockchain and we'll soon have bigger volume than VISA.
The ultimate bitcoin's goal is to surpass everyone and become the #1 global payment method, everything else is not enough. And it can be done and will be done. All other altcoins will always be shitcoins unless they have a very special feature.

[BrianM]

I find that drawing extremly interesting, where did you get it from?

I like that the block reward is plottet on the top axis.
I don't think we will reach visa-volume in transaction... but one should never say never.
I am sure that many people in 2009 never thought that there would be a bitcoin ticker at the US stock exhange.