Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says

[Wilikon]

“Criminal law is not the appropriate means to preserve a social taboo,” the German Ethics Council said in a statement. “The fundamental right of adult siblings to sexual self-determination is to be weighed more heavily than the abstract idea of protection of the family.”


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11119062/Incest-a-fundamental-right-German-committee-says.html


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From that statement the very existence of the word "taboo" should be banned, so are the rights of a new born, created in purpose to be a freak of nature, to have the rest of his life questioned.

Is polygamy still a taboo in Germany?

[stallion]

Well this topic is sort of fragile to talk about. Somewhere we shout out that love is above all. Love wins.But then we don't support when it comes to people indulging with their bloodline siblings. Because the whole idea is very disturbing , i don't support it. Because i've never grown up in an environment which was supportive of this.

[Wilikon]

Well this topic is sort of fragile to talk about. Somewhere we shout out that love is above all. Love wins.But then we don't support when it comes to people indulging with their bloodline siblings. Because the whole idea is very disturbing , i don't support it. Because i've never grown up in an environment which was supportive of this.

If incest is a human right, should a father have sex with his daughter or a son with his mother?

I find this german position disturbing to say the least. Maybe I am too old for this century...

[miki77miki]

I'm split on this issue, on one hand having a father have sex with her daughter and the daughter giving birth would most likely cause serious birth defects in the child. But at the same time as long as two human beings are consenting and are of legal age, why not? There is the people that are extremely supportive of gay couples yelling that two human beings should be able to love each other, unless it is incest,

[Wilikon]

I'm split on this issue, on one hand having a father have sex with her daughter and the daughter giving birth would most likely cause serious birth defects in the child. But at the same time as long as two human beings are consenting and are of legal age, why not? There is the people that are extremely supportive of gay couples yelling that two human beings should be able to love each other, unless it is incest,

Consenting age and incest are the last taboos to be fought in the future, until we find another "good cause", another "good fight"...

Laws and acceptance change.

[Lauda]

I'm not sure what to make of this. Maybe this is morally wrong, but should it be legal or not? Now if you take into consideration that humans should be allowed to love whoever they want, should this not be a right?
I can't imagine myself doing this, there is no way. I think that a father/daughter, mother/son kind of interaction would be worst at best. I'd hate to see their children suffer defects.

Update: ObscureBean, I totally agree with your argument. You have stated a problem that this will cause.

[TheBlueEyedBitcoinDragon]

The problem with incest (apart from the genetics issues) is power imbalance and abuse. Fathers have authority and power over their daughters until they're 18 years of age (by law), would it be considered child abuse if a father primed his daughter to have an active sexual relationship with him by her late teens (age of consent)? Seducing their child all the way into adulthood... it's unethical and immoral, should it be illegal? Should governmental resources be spent preventing/prosecuting these cases? I dont know. Apart from that, I think it's easy for an authority figure to coerce a young adult into sexual acts, given the right circumstances. And then, at the end of the spectrum, there's downright sexual abuse (the duggar family comes to mind).
But ultimately, I think it's wrong for the government to walk up to two consenting adults and imprison them because of sexual acts in private. If cousins, siblings, etc. want to engage in sexual acts, whatever. When it comes to parents, uncles/aunts... I dont know, that's a gray area.

[Wilikon]

The problem with incest (apart from the genetics issues) is power imbalance and abuse. Fathers have authority and power over their daughters until they're 18 years of age (by law), would it be considered child abuse if a father primed his daughter to have an active sexual relationship with him by her late teens (age of consent)? Seducing their child all the way into adulthood... it's unethical and immoral, should it be illegal? Should governmental resources be spent preventing/prosecuting these cases? I dont know. Apart from that, I think it's easy for an authority figure to coerce a young adult into sexual acts, given the right circumstances. And then, at the end of the spectrum, there's downright sexual abuse (the duggar family comes to mind).
But ultimately, I think it's wrong for the government to walk up to two consenting adults and imprison them because of sexual acts in private. If cousins, siblings, etc. want to engage in sexual acts, whatever. When it comes to parents, uncles/aunts... I dont know, that's a gray area.

If we turn to nature as an example, do we have example of great apes, whales, dolphins having sex with father/mother etc? And if nature tells us it is all good to have sex with whatever, how come anthropophagy is a taboo between all consenting adults (if one does not want to live anymore)


As I said the word "taboo" becomes meaningless from that german decision.

[bryant.coleman]

There will always be brainwashed progressive idiots, who will interpret mental diseases such as homosexuality, beastiality, pedophilia, trans-sexuality, and incest as signs of progress. Homosexuality is also legal in most of the Western nations, and in due course of time, the other mental diseases will be legalized as well.

[jaysabi]

There will always be brainwashed progressive idiots, who will interpret mental diseases such as homosexuality, beastiality, pedophilia, trans-sexuality, and incest as signs of progress. Homosexuality is also legal in most of the Western nations, and in due course of time, the other mental diseases will be legalized as well.

Aren't there some clouds outside you can go yell at for awhile instead of subjecting all of us to your hateful tirades all the time?

[TheBlueEyedBitcoinDragon]

If we turn to nature as an example, do we have example of great apes, whales, dolphins having sex with father/mother etc? And if nature tells us it is all good to have sex with whatever, how come anthropophagy is a taboo between all consenting adults (if one does not want to live anymore)


As I said the word "taboo" becomes meaningless from that german decision.

I wouldnt want to turn to nature for guidance for what should be legal. Murder, rape, theft, they're all found in abundance in the animal kingdom. What I want to have as a measuring stick is "how much damage/benefit does something do?". I the best way to legislate is to find an issue, answer that question, and propose a solution, measuring it with that same question.

What's illegal, immoral, unethical, and what's taboo are different groups that all overlap at different points. And it's every generation's challenge to figure out what should be in each of those categories.

[BillyBones]

Now a days everyone wants to live with freedom, and they want to lead their life as they wish then why all the people stuck to taboo on polygamy, it is an individual wish that they are free to do whatever they need, other than being cruel and vicious to others.

[criptix]

i think here is a misunderstanding:

legal in germany:

family members having an incestious relationship (we are talking about adults not underage/pedo stuff)

illegal in germany:

if one of the two above mentioned are getting pregnant and get a child


the crux of the law is that you can not ban or criminalize love.


@willikon

if you have time google homosexuality in nature (regarding animals not humans) 

[Wilikon]

i think here is a misunderstanding:

legal in germany:

family members having an incestious relationship (we are talking about adults not underage/pedo stuff)

illegal in germany:

if one of the two above mentioned are getting pregnant and get a child


the crux of the law is that you can not ban or criminalize love.


@willikon

if you have time google homosexuality in nature (regarding animals not humans) 

Is a father penetrating the daughter his watched grow up in front of his own eyes next to his other daughters and sons a natural act or does it become natural because the german law says it is? Isn't that the crux of the problem?

Will germany force an abortion on the daughter even if the law cannot ban love? They love each other. Having a child is the most natural thing, and a human right. If their love is a human right why send them to jail for having a child? It is immoral to have a son impregnated his own mother, but legal to have sex with her if he uses a condom?


This law makes the word "taboo" meaningless.

[CEG5952]

i think here is a misunderstanding:

legal in germany:

family members having an incestious relationship (we are talking about adults not underage/pedo stuff)

illegal in germany:

if one of the two above mentioned are getting pregnant and get a child


the crux of the law is that you can not ban or criminalize love.


@willikon

if you have time google homosexuality in nature (regarding animals not humans) 

Is a father penetrating the daughter his watched grow up in front of his own eyes next to his other daughters and sons a natural act or does it become natural because the german law says it is? Isn't that the crux of the problem?

Will germany force an abortion on the daughter even if the law cannot ban love? They love each other. Having a child is the most natural thing, and a human right. If their love is a human right why send them to jail for having a child? It is immoral to have a son impregnated his own mother, but legal to have sex with her if he uses a condom?


This law makes the word "taboo" meaningless.

Wow this is just f*ked up man. Incest makes me shiver down to the very deep of my bones.

A daughter being impregnated by his father or a mother being impregnated by her son is a natural thing if both will make love (or in other terms, have sex) and if that happens, abortion would be the number one choice BASED on what the other guy said. do they allow abortion in Germany? And my number one question is 'is it really normal in Germany to have this kind of relationship?"

[criptix]

no it is not common and i actually made a mistake.
it is already illegal to have sex with each other.

incest was a pretty big thing in the german media 5 years or so ago because of a couple of siblings had an incestious child.
the father was sent to jail and they went to the federal court which stated with a 7-1 vote that the criminalization of incest is constitutional.

there was a lot of discussion at that time but nothing happened until now it seems.


btw. i think it is mostly or only cases of siblings/parent+child not knowing each other and meeting later by coincidence or something like that.

cant imagine anything else without thinking that it counts as rape or abuse.

[Scambag]

I’d say that allowing same-sex marriage no more justified accepting incest than allowing different sex-marriage.If some says “if we allow unrelated same sex couples to marry, then it follows we must allow closely related people to marry” this seems exactly analogous to saying “if we allow unrelated different sex couples to marry, then it follows that we must allow closely related people to marry.” To be specific, allowing non-incestuous marriage of same or different sex people does not seem to warrant incestuous marriage. After all, the prohibition against incestuous marriage is that the people are too closely related. This applies whether they are same sex or not.

[Wilikon]

no it is not common and i actually made a mistake.
it is already illegal to have sex with each other.

incest was a pretty big thing in the german media 5 years or so ago because of a couple of siblings had an incestious child.
the father was sent to jail and they went to the federal court which stated with a 7-1 vote that the criminalization of incest is constitutional.

there was a lot of discussion at that time but nothing happened until now it seems.


btw. i think it is mostly or only cases of siblings/parent+child not knowing each other and meeting later by coincidence or something like that.

cant imagine anything else without thinking that it counts as rape or abuse.

Thank you Jesus! Finally some sanity here. Obviously not knowing who you are dating is totally different from knowingly start a incestuous relationship. It should not matter if the law tells you you can love whoever you want. As long as people feel sick to there stomack.

case in point:

Wow this is just f*ked up man. Incest makes me shiver down to the very deep of my bones.

^^ This is a natural reaction. I felt it while writing that stuff down... Not every single bit of social behavior can be rationalized to be a natural thing, unless you are a psychopath.

[CEG5952]

no it is not common and i actually made a mistake.
it is already illegal to have sex with each other.

incest was a pretty big thing in the german media 5 years or so ago because of a couple of siblings had an incestious child.
the father was sent to jail and they went to the federal court which stated with a 7-1 vote that the criminalization of incest is constitutional.

there was a lot of discussion at that time but nothing happened until now it seems.


btw. i think it is mostly or only cases of siblings/parent+child not knowing each other and meeting later by coincidence or something like that.

cant imagine anything else without thinking that it counts as rape or abuse.

Thank you Jesus! Finally some sanity here. Obviously not knowing who you are dating is totally different from knowingly start a incestuous relationship. It should not matter if the law tells you you can love whoever you want. As long as people feel sick to there stomack.

case in point:

Wow this is just f*ked up man. Incest makes me shiver down to the very deep of my bones.

^^ This is a natural reaction. I felt it while writing that stuff down... Not every single bit of social behavior can be rationalized to be a natural thing, unless you are a psychopath.

I've had my cut of this incest thing before. But my case is way too different that on Germany. I didn't know that the girl I'm dating for 2 months is my first degree cousin on my mother's side and after we knew what we're in, I really felt the guilt in my gut, shaking my head thinking of the horrible things we did when we were still dating.

Incest is just messed up. I can't even watch a video of a clear foreplay with incest theme. I've also seen some cases of Incest happening in my country with an incentious child. Majority of their children have abnormalities due to the bloodline (?)

[Trifixion713]

Maybe I am too old for this century...

I'm starting to feel this way more and more every day as I read madness like this.