Bitcoin transaction Times SUCK

[Hopalong]

Still better than like 3-6 months for credit cards, and 1-5 days for banks. Grow up.

My credit card takes less than 5 seconds and have no fee at all. Bank transfer is instant to accounts in the same bank with no fee and less than 1 workday to any account in other banks with no fee.

Dont compare bank with paypal and other obscure metodes that most people dont use.

[ranochigo]

The most recent one had 3 outputs, but my other wallet has only 1 to 2 usually still with the same times.

Yes I use a variety of different coins on a weekly basis actually, I run a stake mining pool and deal with 11 to 15 different coins thru-out the week including LTC Bitcoin DOGE which are used for payment and deposits, and the 10 wallets we are running as well. Bitcoin has by far the absolute slowest transaction times compared to all the others I use.

If you are using only 0.0001BTC transaction fee, that wouldn't be enough for the network load as of now if your transaction size >1kb. I believe majority of the spam transactions pay around 0.0001BTC/KB and anything less than that, you would be expecting a slower confirmation time. Even though alt coin advertises faster speeds, their one confirmation is less secure than Bitcoin's one confirmation. Consider accepting 0 conf transactions if they have enough fees, no competing transactions, well propagated and confirmed input. I don't see much risk in that considering that it is far easier to chargeback credit cards and paypal over a larger timeframe.

Still better than like 3-6 months for credit cards, and 1-5 days for banks. Grow up.

My credit card takes less than 5 seconds and have no fee at all. Bank transfer is instant to accounts in the same bank with no fee and less than 1 workday to any account in other banks with no fee.

Dont compare bank with paypal and other obscure metodes that most people dont use.

They can still be chargedback over a long time compared to Bitcoin.

[Kprawn]

It's public knowledge that there is a backlog, due to this attack... and people just increase the fees for higher priority transfers during this time.. Why even bother with borderline minimum fees, in a situation like this?

If your customers demand instant payments, just shift them over to AsMoney or Xapo.. {Those services provide for instant payment}

We are all playing into the hands of the people doing this... If their point is to prove that the block size needs to be increased, we just counter that by using 3rd party service providers. They would soon back off, when they realize they are wasting their money.

The same goes for miners, if they are doing it to increase the transaction rewards... just use other services and cancel out these incentives.  

[BillyBones]

EDIT: oh and yes before the bitcoin lovers even go there, I pay a 10,000 Satoshi transaction fee for High Priority on all of my personal transactions I send. So lets not try the pay a bigger fee for faster transaction times.

Thank you for this information, I was in thought that paying higher fees might get through the faster transactions, talking about my transactions with the default transactions fee, it takes 20 minutes for confirmation between LocalBitcoin and Bit-x, sometimes I logged out from PC and come back to see the confirmations status.

[Amph]

Still better than like 3-6 months for credit cards, and 1-5 days for banks. Grow up.

My credit card takes less than 5 seconds and have no fee at all. Bank transfer is instant to accounts in the same bank with no fee and less than 1 workday to any account in other banks with no fee.

Dont compare bank with paypal and other obscure metodes that most people dont use.

you think that there is no fee, but they are actually playing with your money all the time, then they cover your need with the money of another that he don't need in that exact moment

[deliciousowl]

My credit card takes less than 5 seconds and have no fee at all. Bank transfer is instant to accounts in the same bank with no fee and less than 1 workday to any account in other banks with no fee.

Dont compare bank with paypal and other obscure metodes that most people dont use.

It seems like 5 seconds and no fee, but credit cards can be charged-back for months. Merchants have huge troubles with this, and there is an entire industry profiting from trying to help them prevent this. Here's a quote from Wikipedia:

Chargeback fraud, also known as friendly fraud, occurs when a consumer makes an online shopping purchase with their own credit card, and then requests a chargeback from the issuing bank after receiving the purchased goods or service. In 2013, LexisNexis reported that merchants pay up to US$2.79 for every $1 lost in fraudulent transactions.

1. The reason it seems like 5 seconds is because you don't realize that the money is only sent, but not confirmed. That's like a Bitcoin transaction 1 second after you send it. Sure, it was sent. But that doesn't mean it's there permanently... Make sense? It's still in limbo and can be reversed.

2. The reason it seems like no fee at all, is because the MERCHANT pays the fee (1 - 10%) and because the BANK pays the fee and transfers the costs onto you in other ways.

Are you in the U.S.? Or where? In Europe it takes up to 5 work days to transfer from one country to another, even if they are only 30 miles apart. And as you said, only on work days... These are also not 100% confirmed (in the sense of Bitcoin) because the bank can freeze, or reverse the payment for a week or more. Bank transfers can also take anywhere up to months to fully confirm.

They deal entirely in IOU's, and banks and CCs are not a push-only system. It's a push-pull system of legal obligations, IOUs, and arbitrary data. Meanwhile they are investing and playing with your money, making money off it while you wait. Look at what happened to Greece...

There is nothing that confirms as quickly as Bitcoin, nor is there anything else that has such immutable certainty.  There are only things that send faster... But in that case SPV and 0-conf is enough!

It may seem conveniently 'instant', but really, it's not.

Such arguments really make me furious. It reminds me of the Louis CK bit:

Imitating a moaning passenger the comedian whines, “‘And then, we get on the plane and they made us sit there on the runway, for 40 minutes. We had to sit there.’ Oh? Really? What happened next? Did you fly through the air, incredibly, like a bird? Did you partake in the miracle of human flight, you non-contributing zero?” He continues, “People, like, they say there’s delays on flights. Delays? Really? New York to California in five hours. That used to take 30 years. Plus, you would die on the way there.”

[Hopalong]

Still better than like 3-6 months for credit cards, and 1-5 days for banks. Grow up.

My credit card takes less than 5 seconds and have no fee at all. Bank transfer is instant to accounts in the same bank with no fee and less than 1 workday to any account in other banks with no fee.

Dont compare bank with paypal and other obscure metodes that most people dont use.

you think that there is no fee, but they are actually playing with your money all the time, then they cover your need with the money of another that he don't need in that exact moment

Sorry i forgot my tinfoil hat today...

When i deposit money in the bank i dont write my name on them and expect to get the same money back. I know they mix up my money with other deposit.

When i say i dont pay fee i mean that i never pay anything to send or recive money. How they do it is not my concern. My only concern is to force them to contiue their practice with changing bank whenever they charge me for anything i dont want to pay.

[deliciousowl]

Sorry i forgot my tinfoil hat today...

When i deposit money in the bank i dont write my name on them and expect to get the same money back. I know they mix up my money with other deposit.

When i say i dont pay fee i mean that i never pay anything to send or recive money. How they do it is not my concern. My only concern is to force them to contiue their practice with changing bank whenever they charge me for anything i dont want to pay.

Please read my post above, and keep your tinfoil hat off. My guess is that you've never researched how exactly banks work, nor worked in that particular industry. I have close ties with people who owned and managed their own multi-national banks, and trust me, it's not as simple or happy as you think.

They don't mix your money with anything. It doesn't EXIST. If everyone tried to withdraw at the same time, most people wouldn't get any. Again.... look at Greece. This is going on right in front of your eyes.

Also if I may ask, which bank do you use that doesn't charge any fees at all?

[Xialla]

deliciousowl you are simply right, but point is, that average Joe don't give a shit about this, he don't even know about those 6 months period or about entire industry behind...really.

he had his fancy card and he simply remember PIN and knows, that whole operation while dealing with merchant took literally seconds..and when using bitcoin (for example sending bitcoin to some service, which require at least 1 or 3 confirmations), he have to wait and this doesn't make any sense to him, because mail is also delivered instantly..try to imagine the situation, without your knowledge and without technical background, which you obviously had, try it from Joe's perspective and you will somehow maybe understands, how discomfort this waiting is..

[deliciousowl]

deliciousowl you are simply right, but point is, that average Joe don't give a shit about this, he don't even know about those 6 months period or about entire industry behind...really.

If every average Joe understood this, and knew about it, there would be riots in the streets worse than anything we've seen before. And the only banks left would be highly competitive online banking companies, who would bend over backwards to kiss our asses and integrate Bitcoin.

But yes, it's uncomfortable. But in the end, that's all about psychology and perceived time. For example if you pre-load a website and serve elements individually people will be amazed at how fast its loading... when in fact it takes the same time but is allocated differently.

The moral of the day is that people don't mind getting fucked in the ass by the industry, as long as they're nice and lubed up while shutting their eyes to the the skeletons underneath the bed.

[Hopalong]

Sorry i forgot my tinfoil hat today...

When i deposit money in the bank i dont write my name on them and expect to get the same money back. I know they mix up my money with other deposit.

When i say i dont pay fee i mean that i never pay anything to send or recive money. How they do it is not my concern. My only concern is to force them to contiue their practice with changing bank whenever they charge me for anything i dont want to pay.

Please read my post above, and keep your tinfoil hat off. My guess is that you've never researched how exactly banks work, nor worked in that particular industry. I have close ties with people who owned and managed their own multi-national banks, and trust me, it's not as simple or happy as you think.

They don't mix your money with anything. It doesn't EXIST. If everyone tried to withdraw at the same time, most people wouldn't get any. Again.... look at Greece. This is going on right in front of your eyes.

Also if I may ask, which bank do you use that doesn't charge any fees at all?

As a user i dont need to know everything. I need to know that it works. That it.

If you read trough the posts on this forum about this "test" and the fork on the 4. of july you will see a lot of people questioning if bitcoin work and are safe. This is people on the inside of the bitcoin sphere.

How do you think people from the outside see this?

[deliciousowl]

As a user i dont need to know everything. I need to know that it works. That it.

Please tell me which bank you use that doesn't have fees!!!

Also, please convince the people in Greece that they don't need to know everything, or where their money is. (They can't withdraw more than $70 from the ATM per day, and usually they are empty...) And ALL THEIR BANKS ARE CLOSED, ALL BANKS. Even the stock market, even Paypal, even Western Union, etc.

Please convince the Australians whose pension accounts were emptied that it works, and that's it:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/canberras-640m-bank-account-raid/story-fn59niix-1226750044335

THE government has ripped more than $640 million out of Australians' bank balances and life insurance policies after a budget-boosting policy shift by Labor ruled any account untouched for three years fair game.

Please convince merchants that paying 2-10% of their profits (WHICH THEY REFLECT IN THE PRICE THAT YOU PAY) for CC fees is fair. They have to raise the prices to compensate for chargeback fraud and higher fees. Your price for that product, be it Pizza or shoes or whatever... will be up to 50% higher as a result...

Also maybe convince Backpage that everything 'works' and they don't need to know anything, after the banking system, VISA and Mastercard cut off all of their payment methods: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/07/09/backpage-free-adult-services-ads-mastercard-visa/29931651/

It works for now... but will it work tomorrow... Did you read my post about confirmation times? The bank and credit cards can reverse your payments for up to 6 months. Bitcoin is irreversible.

Fact and perception are two separate horses.

[randy8777]

to me it is not really a problem yet. when i need to get 3 confirmations when i make a deposit in my exchange account, i do something else and check after 30 minutes how it is. some times it has 3 confirmations within 30 minutes, and other times only 1 or not even 1. you can't do much about it.

[deliciousowl]

to me it is not really a problem yet. when i need to get 3 confirmations when i make a deposit in my exchange account, i do something else and check after 30 minutes how it is. some times it has 3 confirmations within 30 minutes, and other times only 1 or not even 1. you can't do much about it.

It's only a problem for people who insist that every 10 cent or $1 transaction has to be hard-coded into the blockchain. If you want your transactions to confirm faster, pay higher fees and transfer larger amounts. Bitcoin is not for micro-payments, and frankly I'm tired of that buzzword.

Using an immutable ledger that solves the Byzantine Generals problem for the first time in history to transfer 10 cents, and then complaining about the confirmation time, is just depressing..  

"Yeah it frees me from the tyranny and whim of the banksters, but why can't it be faster!??!" - The ADHD generation

Man I bet some people would willingly board a train to Auschwitz because it's faster than walking away.

P.S. Help expand the SPV or 0-confirmations infrastructure, or stop using Bitcoin until it's more understandable. Don't tell devs what to do unless you are a dev as well and can express it in code. If you are confused, then Bitcoin is not for you. Leave and leave it alone until it's more accessible to the general public.

[Mickeyb]

So I've just made a transaction with 0.00001 fee and it says confirmation within 6 blocks, medium priority. This is the first time this happened to me. Is this a new thing or what?

[Xialla]

Please tell me which bank you use that doesn't have fees!!!

sure, I'm using AirBank (https://www.airbank.cz/ -  http://www.ppf.eu/en/companies/air-bank) and yes, entire tarif is free, all operations are free, basically everything except cashing money from ATM which is not AirBank owned is free. Only exception is SEPA, but I told them that I will not pay stupid fee for it (they had feedback form, if you don't like fee, you just have to explain why and what) and they refund it to my acc. (yes, really)

I dunno, where are you from, but in Europe is pretty common, that banks had tariffs which are totally free. I had the acc here for 3 years and I paid fee twice (SEPA) and in both cases it was fully refunded..don't want to defend banks or something, just saying that fees are history and people here massively switching banks to zero fee ones. and even there is bloody competition..

[deliciousowl]

sure, I'm using AirBank (https://www.airbank.cz/ -  http://www.ppf.eu/en/companies/air-bank) and yes, entire tarif is free, all operations are free, basically everything except cashing money from ATM which is not AirBank owned is free. Only exception is SEPA, but I told them that I will not fee for it and they refund it to my acc. (yes, really)

I dunno, where are you from, but in Europe is pretty common, that banks had tariffs which are totally for free. I had the acc here for 3 years and I paid fee twice and in both cases it was fully refunded..don't want to defend banks or something, just saying that fees are history and people here massively switching banks to zero free ones..

Yeah, in stable economies with relatively friendly governments, it doesn't seem to be a problem. It all depends on how much you trust the bank you are using, and the government in your country.

In CZ maybe it's ok... in SK I wouldn't trust my bank with $10. They robbed my entire family for millions.

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" - Mike Tyson

[Xialla]

Yeah, in stable economies with relatively friendly governments, it doesn't seem to be a problem. It all depends on how much you trust the bank you are using, and the government in your country.

ahh sure, because of this, more than half of my savings are in bitcoin and I'm regularly buying bitcoin every month from each salary. I somehow trust the gov. but generally I don't trust current financial system as is designed and working these days..

a jsem rad, ze tu mam i kolegu v diskuzi, se kterym si muzu psat i cesky.) nekdy mam pocit, ze jsem tu sam..

[Amph]

Still better than like 3-6 months for credit cards, and 1-5 days for banks. Grow up.

My credit card takes less than 5 seconds and have no fee at all. Bank transfer is instant to accounts in the same bank with no fee and less than 1 workday to any account in other banks with no fee.

Dont compare bank with paypal and other obscure metodes that most people dont use.

you think that there is no fee, but they are actually playing with your money all the time, then they cover your need with the money of another that he don't need in that exact moment

Sorry i forgot my tinfoil hat today...

When i deposit money in the bank i dont write my name on them and expect to get the same money back. I know they mix up my money with other deposit.

When i say i dont pay fee i mean that i never pay anything to send or recive money. How they do it is not my concern. My only concern is to force them to contiue their practice with changing bank whenever they charge me for anything i dont want to pay.

but you pay for any withdrawal from atm right? or for any conversion right? well bitcoin has no heavy fee for any sort, there is no conversion when you use bitcoin, and the best thing is that you can actually decide your fee

[unamis76]

Transaction times are instant. I have no idea how one can improve on that. However, confirmations are not instant, and cannot be instant.