Bitcoin transaction Times SUCK

[Borisz]

BTC transaction time right now is more than hour on average. I think there is a problem and hope it will be solved  

i can't see how this is contemplated as a problem, when with fiat bank or paypal is the same

with the above services, that i mentioned you see your transaction processed immediately like bitcoin

but the true is that the money are not yet arrived to the recipient, only the order of it was recieved, which can be comparable to confirmation

this mean that bitcoin is anyway, miles ahead of any fiat system albeit it seems the contrary, in the last days

Bitcoin  brags and advertises FAST 10 minute transaction times (a transaction for basic users, is when they have access to the funds and can safely spend them NOT just when it hits the chain!)

Bitcoin brags and advertises low fees yet in order to have a nice transaction time you are asked to increase the fees. Which I have found does not actually lower the time it takes to actually allow the transaction to be safely spendable by the networks advice.

Bitcoin  is not (in my eyes) "miles ahead" of anything yet. For me, I see a lot of false advertising, inability to come thru with what they promise, a lot of back peddling to cover up thier false advertising, and very little ambition from the developers to actually fix problems and make their product more user friendly and easier adaptable.

At the end of the day it all comes down to the developers, and for the past 2 years they have done nothing but sit back and watch the time go by. They seem to worry more about the programmers and coders and forget they need regular people to be using their product as it is them who make transactions internationally every day not the programmer who can decipher RPC commands and understands C++

Tell us then. What should the developers do? There is nothing they can do to make CONFIRMATION times faster. Even if the block target time was reduced to 1 minute, due to the randomness of mining, there will still be outliers that take maybe an hour or two to mine. That is the nature of Bitcoin and ALL CRYPTOCURRENCIES.

Where is the false Advertising? The fees to send Bitcoin are significantly lower than the fees to send money using any other system. Look up their fees and you will see the difference.

Bitcoin is "miles ahead" of many other payment systems. Take credit cards or PayPal for example. They can reverse the transactions up to 180 days after the payment. Sure the money can be spent, but if it is reversed, sucks to be the guy that received. Bitcoin on the other hand, will make your transaction irreversible anywhere between a couple of seconds to a couple of days, much shorter than credit cards or paypal.

This chargeback thing again  I am a fan of bitcoin, but it is two different systems you are talking about that work based on different merits. Saying that we are miles ahead because we don't have chargebacks is not necessarily true.

...It also "sucks" to pre-order 50TH/s worth ASIC boards with 20'000$ worth of bitcoin just to realise they will never arrive and you got scammed. No chargeback, too bad for your 20'000$.

[turvarya]

BTC transaction time right now is more than hour on average. I think there is a problem and hope it will be solved  

i can't see how this is contemplated as a problem, when with fiat bank or paypal is the same

with the above services, that i mentioned you see your transaction processed immediately like bitcoin

but the true is that the money are not yet arrived to the recipient, only the order of it was recieved, which can be comparable to confirmation

this mean that bitcoin is anyway, miles ahead of any fiat system albeit it seems the contrary, in the last days

Bitcoin  brags and advertises FAST 10 minute transaction times (a transaction for basic users, is when they have access to the funds and can safely spend them NOT just when it hits the chain!)

Bitcoin brags and advertises low fees yet in order to have a nice transaction time you are asked to increase the fees. Which I have found does not actually lower the time it takes to actually allow the transaction to be safely spendable by the networks advice.

Bitcoin  is not (in my eyes) "miles ahead" of anything yet. For me, I see a lot of false advertising, inability to come thru with what they promise, a lot of back peddling to cover up thier false advertising, and very little ambition from the developers to actually fix problems and make their product more user friendly and easier adaptable.

At the end of the day it all comes down to the developers, and for the past 2 years they have done nothing but sit back and watch the time go by. They seem to worry more about the programmers and coders and forget they need regular people to be using their product as it is them who make transactions internationally every day not the programmer who can decipher RPC commands and understands C++

Tell us then. What should the developers do? There is nothing they can do to make CONFIRMATION times faster. Even if the block target time was reduced to 1 minute, due to the randomness of mining, there will still be outliers that take maybe an hour or two to mine. That is the nature of Bitcoin and ALL CRYPTOCURRENCIES.

Where is the false Advertising? The fees to send Bitcoin are significantly lower than the fees to send money using any other system. Look up their fees and you will see the difference.

Bitcoin is "miles ahead" of many other payment systems. Take credit cards or PayPal for example. They can reverse the transactions up to 180 days after the payment. Sure the money can be spent, but if it is reversed, sucks to be the guy that received. Bitcoin on the other hand, will make your transaction irreversible anywhere between a couple of seconds to a couple of days, much shorter than credit cards or paypal.

This chargeback thing again  I am a fan of bitcoin, but it is two different systems you are talking about that work based on different merits. Saying that we are miles ahead because we don't have chargebacks is not necessarily true.

...It also "sucks" to pre-order 50TH/s worth ASIC boards with 20'000$ worth of bitcoin just to realise they will never arrive and you got scammed. No chargeback, too bad for your 20'000$.

Oh and here is this whole, "chargebacks are not bad, because criminals always get caught"-thing again. "chargebacks are not bad, because not every transaction will be charged back".
A possible chargeback is good for the buyer and bad for the seller. The non-reversal-nature of Bitcoin is good for the receiver and bad for the sender.
Which system is the better one, depends on the side you are standing at.
If you are on the wrong side, you have to fill a lawsuit for justice to be served.

That's why in Bitcoin, there are things like escrow services, multisig and projects like Streamium.

[deliciousowl]

Bitcoin  is not (in my eyes) "miles ahead" of anything yet. For me, I see a lot of false advertising, inability to come thru with what they promise, a lot of back peddling to cover up thier false advertising, and very little ambition from the developers to actually fix problems and make their product more user friendly and easier adaptable.

At the end of the day it all comes down to the developers, and for the past 2 years they have done nothing but sit back and watch the time go by. They seem to worry more about the programmers and coders and forget they need regular people to be using their product as it is them who make transactions internationally every day not the programmer who can decipher RPC commands and understands C++

Well, obviously. It's in early development. The programmers are focusing on the parts that make it work, and great. And they are most certainly not providing "false advertising"... that would be random people from around the world. I can assure you the core devs are not advertising it.

It's a software that is still getting developed, and it's "miles ahead" of any centralized system. Simply because something like this (http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-07-14/banks-forgot-who-was-supposed-to-own-dell-shares) cannot happen.

Immutability is much more valuable than faster transactions. If you disagree... go work with a SQL database again...

It's open-source and there is no obligation to make it accessible to regular people. It needs to be perfect and polished, not cater to the lowest denominator. If you don't understand why the concept of immutability is miles ahead of anything else, then please don't use Bitcoin.

[Borisz]

BTC transaction time right now is more than hour on average. I think there is a problem and hope it will be solved  

i can't see how this is contemplated as a problem, when with fiat bank or paypal is the same

with the above services, that i mentioned you see your transaction processed immediately like bitcoin

but the true is that the money are not yet arrived to the recipient, only the order of it was recieved, which can be comparable to confirmation

this mean that bitcoin is anyway, miles ahead of any fiat system albeit it seems the contrary, in the last days

Bitcoin  brags and advertises FAST 10 minute transaction times (a transaction for basic users, is when they have access to the funds and can safely spend them NOT just when it hits the chain!)

Bitcoin brags and advertises low fees yet in order to have a nice transaction time you are asked to increase the fees. Which I have found does not actually lower the time it takes to actually allow the transaction to be safely spendable by the networks advice.

Bitcoin  is not (in my eyes) "miles ahead" of anything yet. For me, I see a lot of false advertising, inability to come thru with what they promise, a lot of back peddling to cover up thier false advertising, and very little ambition from the developers to actually fix problems and make their product more user friendly and easier adaptable.

At the end of the day it all comes down to the developers, and for the past 2 years they have done nothing but sit back and watch the time go by. They seem to worry more about the programmers and coders and forget they need regular people to be using their product as it is them who make transactions internationally every day not the programmer who can decipher RPC commands and understands C++

Tell us then. What should the developers do? There is nothing they can do to make CONFIRMATION times faster. Even if the block target time was reduced to 1 minute, due to the randomness of mining, there will still be outliers that take maybe an hour or two to mine. That is the nature of Bitcoin and ALL CRYPTOCURRENCIES.

Where is the false Advertising? The fees to send Bitcoin are significantly lower than the fees to send money using any other system. Look up their fees and you will see the difference.

Bitcoin is "miles ahead" of many other payment systems. Take credit cards or PayPal for example. They can reverse the transactions up to 180 days after the payment. Sure the money can be spent, but if it is reversed, sucks to be the guy that received. Bitcoin on the other hand, will make your transaction irreversible anywhere between a couple of seconds to a couple of days, much shorter than credit cards or paypal.

This chargeback thing again  I am a fan of bitcoin, but it is two different systems you are talking about that work based on different merits. Saying that we are miles ahead because we don't have chargebacks is not necessarily true.

...It also "sucks" to pre-order 50TH/s worth ASIC boards with 20'000$ worth of bitcoin just to realise they will never arrive and you got scammed. No chargeback, too bad for your 20'000$.

Oh and here is this whole, "chargebacks are not bad, because criminals always get caught"-thing again. "chargebacks are not bad, because not every transaction will be charged back".
A possible chargeback is good for the buyer and bad for the seller. The non-reversal-nature of Bitcoin is good for the receiver and bad for the sender.
Which system is the better one, depends on the side you are standing at.
If you are on the wrong side, you have to fill a lawsuit for justice to be served.

That's why in Bitcoin, there are things like escrow services, multisig and projects like Streamium.

You started seeing a bigger picture, keep it up.

Few thoughts on Escrow
It is/can be good yes and it is working (provided both parties trust the escrow service). However, the whole point of bitcoin was to remove the need for trust and base transactions on cryptographic proof. As a consequence chargebacks are not possible. Yet you need and want to introduce a middle man (escrow) whom you trust. Ironic isn't it? 

What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust,
allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted
third  party.

https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

[turvarya]

BTC transaction time right now is more than hour on average. I think there is a problem and hope it will be solved  

i can't see how this is contemplated as a problem, when with fiat bank or paypal is the same

with the above services, that i mentioned you see your transaction processed immediately like bitcoin

but the true is that the money are not yet arrived to the recipient, only the order of it was recieved, which can be comparable to confirmation

this mean that bitcoin is anyway, miles ahead of any fiat system albeit it seems the contrary, in the last days

Bitcoin  brags and advertises FAST 10 minute transaction times (a transaction for basic users, is when they have access to the funds and can safely spend them NOT just when it hits the chain!)

Bitcoin brags and advertises low fees yet in order to have a nice transaction time you are asked to increase the fees. Which I have found does not actually lower the time it takes to actually allow the transaction to be safely spendable by the networks advice.

Bitcoin  is not (in my eyes) "miles ahead" of anything yet. For me, I see a lot of false advertising, inability to come thru with what they promise, a lot of back peddling to cover up thier false advertising, and very little ambition from the developers to actually fix problems and make their product more user friendly and easier adaptable.

At the end of the day it all comes down to the developers, and for the past 2 years they have done nothing but sit back and watch the time go by. They seem to worry more about the programmers and coders and forget they need regular people to be using their product as it is them who make transactions internationally every day not the programmer who can decipher RPC commands and understands C++

Tell us then. What should the developers do? There is nothing they can do to make CONFIRMATION times faster. Even if the block target time was reduced to 1 minute, due to the randomness of mining, there will still be outliers that take maybe an hour or two to mine. That is the nature of Bitcoin and ALL CRYPTOCURRENCIES.

Where is the false Advertising? The fees to send Bitcoin are significantly lower than the fees to send money using any other system. Look up their fees and you will see the difference.

Bitcoin is "miles ahead" of many other payment systems. Take credit cards or PayPal for example. They can reverse the transactions up to 180 days after the payment. Sure the money can be spent, but if it is reversed, sucks to be the guy that received. Bitcoin on the other hand, will make your transaction irreversible anywhere between a couple of seconds to a couple of days, much shorter than credit cards or paypal.

This chargeback thing again  I am a fan of bitcoin, but it is two different systems you are talking about that work based on different merits. Saying that we are miles ahead because we don't have chargebacks is not necessarily true.

...It also "sucks" to pre-order 50TH/s worth ASIC boards with 20'000$ worth of bitcoin just to realise they will never arrive and you got scammed. No chargeback, too bad for your 20'000$.

Oh and here is this whole, "chargebacks are not bad, because criminals always get caught"-thing again. "chargebacks are not bad, because not every transaction will be charged back".
A possible chargeback is good for the buyer and bad for the seller. The non-reversal-nature of Bitcoin is good for the receiver and bad for the sender.
Which system is the better one, depends on the side you are standing at.
If you are on the wrong side, you have to fill a lawsuit for justice to be served.

That's why in Bitcoin, there are things like escrow services, multisig and projects like Streamium.

You started seeing a bigger picture, keep it up.

Few thoughts on Escrow
It is/can be good yes and it is working (provided both parties trust the escrow service). However, the whole point of bitcoin was to remove the need for trust and base transactions on cryptographic proof. As a consequence chargebacks are not possible. Yet you need and want to introduce a middle man (escrow) whom you trust. Ironic isn't it? 

What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust,
allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted
third  party.

https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

You obviously don't see the bigger picture, and mix things up.
The problem with the current system is, that if I send you money over a bank and we both aggree, that you should get this money, the bank can just decide, that you should not get this money. Happened here in Austria, when people wanted to send Euros to bitcoin.de
That is what Satoshi is talking about.

[aakashsangwan]

If would want your transaction to happen instantaneous and also to confirm within 5 minute,  then you can make the transaction fee from 10k Satoshi to 1BTC.
You will be making the pool owners lol.

[Xiaoxiao]

How can BTC handle any kind of real world traffic EVER?

[Meuh6879]

it can ... right now : http://btcaudio.tk/live/ or http://statoshi.info/dashboard/db/transactions


It's real traffic ............                  ^^

[spazzdla]

How can BTC handle any kind of real world traffic EVER?

Large blocks and off chain transactions.

[Amph]

If would want your transaction to happen instantaneous and also to confirm within 5 minute,  then you can make the transaction fee from 10k Satoshi to 1BTC.
You will be making the pool owners lol.

transaction are instantaneous, i can't see this problem, the problem is only with confirmation, which again it is only a problem with phisical shop and only for big amount, can't people wait 10 min for online shop? i think it's an excuse

[d4n13]

...  then you can make the transaction fee from 10k Satoshi to 1BTC.

I'll pull your transactions out of the pool for a lot less than 1 BTC

non-profit transaction rescue service

[aakashsangwan]

...  then you can make the transaction fee from 10k Satoshi to 1BTC.

I'll pull your transactions out of the pool for a lot less than 1 BTC

non-profit transaction rescue service

no thanks my friend.
I was helping the OP by suggesting him to increase the transaction amount from 10k satoshi to 1btc in order to reduce the confirmation time.
I am also having my transaction fee set at 10k satoshi.

[d4n13]

I was helping the OP by suggesting him to increase the transaction amount from 10k satoshi to 1btc in order to reduce the confirmation time.
I am also having my transaction fee set at 10k satoshi.

Sure... if the TX and priority are both low enough, eventually it will fall off the mempool.  Some pools are less persistent in their purge policies.  I'm working to get CPFP implemented in more wallets to allow them to "pull" transactions out of the mempool.  That's where the "profits" from the "non-profit" are going to.

Increasing fees only works if you have a reliable chance of respending the UTXO without your second being flagged as a duplicate transaction.  This "Send again with more fees" is called RBF, and someone else is already working at making it happen.  I'm just focused on raising support for CPFP since it doesn't seem to be getting as much attention and could be a good complement to RBF.

Anyway... there are some good "delete and resend" guides coming on line, so if that works, great...

[Derek492]

Switch to Mintcoin and enjoy 2 minute transactions. Transactions confirm in 30 seconds. 

[umaOuma]

If would want your transaction to happen instantaneous and also to confirm within 5 minute,  then you can make the transaction fee from 10k Satoshi to 1BTC.
You will be making the pool owners lol.

transaction are instantaneous, i can't see this problem, the problem is only with confirmation, which again it is only a problem with phisical shop and only for big amount, can't people wait 10 min for online shop? i think it's an excuse

Last week i was expecting a small payment in my wallet and it took more than 48 hours to get confirmed. I mean 48 hours?? The payment was small so there was no issues even if it got delayed but what if I am expecting a big payment and need to withdraw in emergency at that time can't afford to wait for 48 hours.

[shorena]

-snip-
Last week i was expecting a small payment in my wallet and it took more than 48 hours to get confirmed. I mean 48 hours?? The payment was small so there was no issues even if it got delayed but what if I am expecting a big payment and need to withdraw in emergency at that time can't afford to wait for 48 hours.

Did the TX have an appropriate fee considering the current circumstances?

[Cryddit]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1125214

The fees will increase until legitimate traffic is less than half the block size.

Anyone paying less fees will see transaction times that SUCK as you say. 

This is because someone is executing a Golden Ratio Attack.  They are making a profit on the so-called "Stress Test" and will continue it forever.  I have no idea how to stop it. This is serious.

[Gleb Gamow]

Really? Well in a month, I always receive and send an amount varying from 0.5-2BTC and I never had any longer confirmation time of 20 minutes.

Yea it is beginning to really get on my nerves, I have clients who needed a BTC withdraw form our site the other night for a time sensative trade, and it took almost an hour just for 1 confirm I was so angry. It makes me look bad HAHA. I sent ti out as soon as I saw the request but wow it took forever to confirm.

Are the payments from one output? Have you tried using other alt currencies such as Fastcoin which apparently has a confirmation of around 12 seconds or Litecoins (Which take a few a minutes)

Just saying but economy protest is one of the most effective methods of protest

The most recent one had 3 outputs, but my other wallet has only 1 to 2 usually still with the same times.

Yes I use a variety of different coins on a weekly basis actually, I run a stake mining pool and deal with 11 to 15 different coins thru-out the week including LTC Bitcoin DOGE which are used for payment and deposits, and the 10 wallets we are running as well. Bitcoin has by far the absolute slowest transaction times compared to all the others I use.

Let's be honest, Mr. Leroy Fodor. You just came here to hawk your snake oil. Ha Ha HAHA JAJAJA! Follow the first link in my sig to get up to speed folks; Click the second one for a good laugh, as in HAHA!

Leroy's timeline within 6 month period:

Massive solar power bitcoin mining operation burned to the grown in the Philippines.
Came to this forum and begged for coins because he was flat broke and Filipinos suck (his words).
Couple months later had the largest bitcoin mining farm in all the Philippines.

[EternalWingsofGod]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1125214

The fees will increase until legitimate traffic is less than half the block size.

Anyone paying less fees will see transaction times that SUCK as you say.  

This is because someone is executing a Golden Ratio Attack.  They are making a profit on the so-called "Stress Test" and will continue it forever.  I have no idea how to stop it. This is serious.

It seems that the OP (yourself) has edited the thread title, I was a bit interested in how the Golden Ratio Attack was executed and from what I can surmise it is a mining ROI through higher transaction fees reading through the comments in the other thread, in a sense that would work as Satoshi did plan on transaction fees at some point in time transitioning and replacing the reward for discovering blocks accelrating that process involves an increase in mining fees but in addition to the stable block rewards pools would have an incentive to keep the fees high, the issue would not be a concern usually but in the case of space limitations it does present a possible problem and issue.

Not a bad idea in any sense as it could have happened when Ghash.io was near 50% but it looks like Gmaxwell came in and did some math but the concept looks like it has feet in my opinion.
Especially if a consortium of pools decided to group together to perform and execute this attack at cost to maintain a new quo in which case the honest miners would still make more but through block discovery on average the attackers would discover the transactions and reward themselves in the long run.

_
Lets imagine your mine with half hashpower. Lets imagine that a block can contain 6000 transactions.  Attacker has 1/2 hashpower.  Offered load is 4000 tx/block.

Attacker crafts 2000/tx block at 1coin/tx fee level. Making the rest match him (plus episilon, which we'll disregard).

His average cost for spam is 1000 coin/block (2000 * 1-rate).
His average income is 2000 coin/block (4000 * rate).  (He doesn't get income from his spam, he saves its cost however; see prior line)
His net income is 1000 coins/block, on average.

Now consider the consolidation of other miners:
Their average cost for spam is 0.
Their average income is 3000 coin/block (6000 * (1-rate)).
Their net income is 3000 coin/block.

Both groups have 50% hashrate, so the non-attacking miner has a fee income of three times greater the attacking miner per unit hashrate!

Normalized for hashrate thats 2000 vs 6000.

[bitcoinmasterlord]

Really? Well in a month, I always receive and send an amount varying from 0.5-2BTC and I never had any longer confirmation time of 20 minutes.

Yea it is beginning to really get on my nerves, I have clients who needed a BTC withdraw form our site the other night for a time sensative trade, and it took almost an hour just for 1 confirm I was so angry. It makes me look bad HAHA. I sent ti out as soon as I saw the request but wow it took forever to confirm.

Are the payments from one output? Have you tried using other alt currencies such as Fastcoin which apparently has a confirmation of around 12 seconds or Litecoins (Which take a few a minutes)

Just saying but economy protest is one of the most effective methods of protest

The most recent one had 3 outputs, but my other wallet has only 1 to 2 usually still with the same times.

Yes I use a variety of different coins on a weekly basis actually, I run a stake mining pool and deal with 11 to 15 different coins thru-out the week including LTC Bitcoin DOGE which are used for payment and deposits, and the 10 wallets we are running as well. Bitcoin has by far the absolute slowest transaction times compared to all the others I use.

Your fee simply was too low for a transaction that you try when the bitcoin network is spammed since days. If you would have used the double value as fee then you surely wouldn't have had a problem. The thing is the spammers put in nice fees too and they create so big transactions that the blocks get full pretty fast.

So you simply need to pay more to get your transaction included faster. And maybe use 0.000201 or so since then you even have a slight advantage against users with 0.0002 Bitcoin as fee. Miners always use the best paying transactions first.