USPS DOES NOT INSURE BULLION!

[Maniac479]

If you are paying extra for insurance on bullion shipped via USPS, you are wasting your money. That's because the USPS DOES NOT INSURE BULLION. I have seen people advertise bullion on here and say that you can insure it, when it looks like they're shipping USPS. Experienced bullion traders know this. It's on the USPS website somewhere in the fine print.

To me, saying that you can "pay extra" for insurance on bullion shipped via USPS borders on scam. I am assuming that people advertising this simply aren't aware that the USPS doesn't insure bullion. If they are aware of that, it's simply a scam that lets them off the hook if the shipment is lost. They could say "You shoulda bought insurance!" Also traditionally if a shipment is lost in transit it is the seller's duty to make it right.

That's why I ship FedEx. Yes FedEx is more expensive but INSURANCE IS INCLUDED in the shipping price.

http://www.bonanza.com/booths/SolidSilver

We take bitcoin!  

[RandomQ]

Insurance for loss or damage to insured, registered, or COD mail within the amount covered by the fee paid or within the indemnity limits for Express Mail as explained in 4.2 is payable for the following:

g. Fair market value of stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value, as determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors newsletters and trade papers.

o. Except for Registered Mail, the maximum indemnity for negotiable items (defined as instruments that can be converted to cash without resort to forgery), currency, or bullion, is $15.00.

[DeathAndTaxes]

USPS will insure bullion, $100,000 bearer bonds, even bags of cash (yes literally USPS will insure a bag of cash being shipped) but ..... IT MUST BE SHIPPED REGISTERED MAIL.  This requires taking the item to the post office with package unsealed, and declaring contents, and USPS worker will seal it in your sight.  There will exist an unbroken chain of custody from every employee who has transfers ownership of the package (i.e. USPS knows exactly who to arrest when the item goes missing).

[Maniac479]

I repeat, USPS DOES NOT INSURE BULLION. Period.

They don't make a big deal about not insuring bullion. If you try to insure bullion, they will take your money. However if your bullion is lost, you are in for an unpleasant surprise.

I am not even going to try to find where on their website they say this, but it is there. You really have to dig but it's there. Your average Post Office employee doesn't know this. However in the event your bullion is lost and you are assigned an investigator, the investigator will know!

[RandomQ]

I repeat, USPS DOES NOT INSURE BULLION. Period.

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/609.htm

Section 4.1 o

Gotta read the fine print, and I agree with D&T sorry your wrong.[/s]

Quoted Express Mail...whoops...Close but no Cigar for me...

[DeathAndTaxes]

I repeat, USPS DOES NOT INSURE BULLION. Period.

AHEM. 

http://faq.usps.com/eCustomer/iq/usps/request.do?create=kb:USPSFAQ&view()=c%5Bc_usps04233%5D&varset(source)=sourceType:embedded#Can

You must declare the full value of the mailpiece when presenting it for mailing. Registered Mail may be sent without postal insurance only if the item has no value. Postal insurance is available in values of $0.01 to $25,000.00. The declared value of an item can be determined using the table below:

Jewelry, Gems, Precious Metals - Market value

You can repeat false statements as much as you want but it doesn't magically make it true.

[DeathAndTaxes]

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/609.htm

Section 4.1 o

Gotta read the fine print, and I agree with D&T sorry your wrong.

You got to read the RIGHT print.  That is for express mail.  USPS doesn't insure gold, jewelry, cash, or other negotiable assets (even giftcards) unless shipped by REGISTERED MAIL.

Quoting the regs for Express mail to "debunk" a statement about Registered mail is well silly.

Per the same link:

Insurance for loss or damage to insured, registered, or COD mail within the amount covered by the fee paid or within the indemnity limits for Express Mail as explained in 4.2 is payable for the following:
a. Actual value of lost articles at the time and place of mailing (see 4.1n. for bulk insured articles).

...

g. Fair market value of stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value, as determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors newsletters and trade papers.

...

o. Except for Registered Mail, the maximum indemnity for negotiable items (defined as instruments that can be converted to cash without resort to forgery), currency, or bullion, is $15.00.

[Maniac479]

Go ahead and insure bullion with the USPS. No skin off my nose! 

[DeathAndTaxes]

Go ahead and insure bullion with the USPS. No skin off my nose! 

Well APMEX shipped me $20,000 in silver by ..... insured Registered mail. <GASP>. Seeing as they are the world's largest precious metals dealer I think they AND the USPS regs hold more weight then your claim backed my nothing.  No cite, no reference, no expert opinion. 

If shipping by anything other than Registered Mail you would be correct.  That is why registered mail exists.

[Maniac479]

Big players like APMEX buy their own insurance from insurance companies. Yeah sure they have a guy that takes stuff down to their local post office...   Besides your $20k is peanuts to APMEX. They let the janitor sweep that much off the shipping floor at closing time and put it in his pockets. lol

I would find the USPS web page where they say they don't insure bullion, but I've already done it plenty of times on other forums. It's buried on an obscure page somewhere and it's not easy to find. I should bookmark it, but I don't feel the need to prove the point another time. Like I said, go ahead and insure bullion with USPS. It's no skin off my nose!

Your link does make it seem like they insure bullion. However, it doesn't say "bullion". It says "gems, jewelry, and precious metals". Is it possible that they make a distinction between bullion and precious metal? I think what they mean here is jewelry. To determine the value of a piece of jewelry you would have to add the value of the gems to the value of the "precious metal" in the piece. This doesn't say bullion which is what I'm talking about. 

[SaltySpitoon]

"Sending gold bullion from one person to another requires a certain process. Since FedEx and UPS do not offer insurance or allow gold or jewelry, it is best to ship gold bullion via the US Postal Service. Keeping this in mind, sending and insuring a package of gold bullion through the mail is hardly any different than sending any other priority mail package. If the value of the gold is over $25,000, it will need to be send via Registered Mail."

[Maniac479]

"Sending gold bullion from one person to another requires a certain process. Since FedEx and UPS do not offer insurance or allow gold or jewelry, it is best to ship gold bullion via the US Postal Service. Keeping this in mind, sending and insuring a package of gold bullion through the mail is hardly any different than sending any other priority mail package. If the value of the gold is over $25,000, it will need to be send via Registered Mail."

You got that from the USPS website? So now the USPS is telling us what FedEx does? Not likely.

[SaltySpitoon]

Sorry, Wikipedia isn't that reliable, lets go with this one

"Limit on money (cash) insurable through the mail

Money (currency / cash) that is sent through the mail can be insured with the following limits:

    Except for Registered Mail, the maximum indemnity for negotiable items (defined as instruments that can be converted to cash without resort to forgery), currency, or bullion, is $15.00
    For Registered Mail™, cash can be insured up to $25,000. For amounts over $25,000, the full value must be declared but the maximum insured value is $25,000

    When a claim is filed, money is replaced at the insured value as indicated above only:

        After evidence of value is shown (if the actual value was less than the insured amount, then only the actual value is paid)
            Important: If you are sending a significant amount of cash, you need to verify with your local office what is considered valid evidence of value before mailing the item. You should also verify that it is packaged securely enough to protect a high value item from being harmed during regular mail processing.
        After the claim process is complete

"
http://faq.usps.com/eCustomer/iq/usps/request.do?create=kb:USPSFAQ&view%28%29=c[c_usps04231]&varset%28source%29=sourceType:embedded

[Maniac479]

Anyone that walks into their local post office and says "Hey guys, I'm sending a bundle of cash and/or bullion here, did I wrap it OK?" probably doesn't have the highest IQ around, if you get my drift.

 

Sorry, Wikipedia isn't that reliable, lets go with this one

"Limit on money (cash) insurable through the mail

Money (currency / cash) that is sent through the mail can be insured with the following limits:

    Except for Registered Mail, the maximum indemnity for negotiable items (defined as instruments that can be converted to cash without resort to forgery), currency, or bullion, is $15.00
    For Registered Mail™, cash can be insured up to $25,000. For amounts over $25,000, the full value must be declared but the maximum insured value is $25,000

    When a claim is filed, money is replaced at the insured value as indicated above only:

        After evidence of value is shown (if the actual value was less than the insured amount, then only the actual value is paid)
            Important: If you are sending a significant amount of cash, you need to verify with your local office what is considered valid evidence of value before mailing the item. You should also verify that it is packaged securely enough to protect a high value item from being harmed during regular mail processing.
        After the claim process is complete

"
http://faq.usps.com/eCustomer/iq/usps/request.do?create=kb:USPSFAQ&view%28%29=c[c_usps04231]&varset%28source%29=sourceType:embedded

[SaltySpitoon]

Anyone that walks into their local post office and says "Hey guys, I'm sending a bundle of cash and/or bullion here, did I wrap it OK?" probably doesn't have the highest IQ around, if you get my drift.

 
bove only:

"Hey, I'm shipping 10 Oz of Silver bullion, I need this insured"
"Alright, we will insure that up to $345"
"Thanks"

I don't know, doesn't seem too stupid to me.

[Coinabul]

This is we have specialized insurance plans to make sure metals get to our customers safely.

Just my two cents

[casascius]

You can insure bullion.  Send it registered mail.  It is a no-brainer.  It's like a few bucks more than regular insured mail, like, I'm talking single digit dollars.  It does not have to be over $25000.  In fact that is more likely the maximum amount per shipment, if it were more you'd have to break it into individual shipments worth less.  I send larger Casascius Coin orders via registered mail all the time and prefer it.

FedEx as a policy doesn't ship currency.  How do I know?  MemoryDealers told me that FedEx actually returned packages declared as "bitcoins" because it was against their policy to ship... "they don't ship currency".

[Maniac479]

Look, it's all good until a package gets lost. It doesn't happen very often, but it does happen. I've heard this all before on forums dedicated to bullion. The "send it registered mail" thing always comes up. But- if it's lost, they won't pay. I've seen it happen. Because: THE USPS DOESN'T INSURE BULLION. Professional bullion dealers buy insurance plans from insurance companies. Small fries send USPS and cross their fingers. Me, I ship FedEx, and I've never had any problems. I used to ship USPS and nothing ever got lost, but there came a point when I heard too many USPS horror stories. The thing is, one lost package sent via USPS can really eat into your profit margin and/or bottom line.

Anyway, let's not forget that the USPS is The United States Government.
If you don't trust their fiat, how can you trust their post office? 

[SaltySpitoon]

Look, it's all good until a package gets lost. It doesn't happen very often, but it does happen. I've heard this all before on forums dedicated to bullion. The "send it registered mail" thing always comes up. But- if it's lost, they won't pay. I've seen it happen. Because: THE USPS DOESN'T INSURE BULLION. Professional bullion dealers buy insurance plans from insurance companies. Small fries send USPS and cross their fingers. Me, I ship FedEx, and I've never had any problems. I used to ship USPS and nothing ever got lost, but there came a point when I heard too many USPS horror stories. The thing is, one lost package sent via USPS can really eat into your profit margin and/or bottom line.

Anyway, let's not forget that the USPS is The United States Government.
If you don't trust their fiat, how can you trust their post office?  

I'm confused, I thought we established that USPS does insure bullion? Feel free to use Fedex I guess, you are free to your personal opinion, but saying that USPS doesn't insure Bullion is a lie.

http://faq.usps.com/eCustomer/iq/usps/request.do?create=kb:USPSFAQ&view%28%29=c[c_usps04231]&varset%28source%29=sourceType:embedded

- Direct from the USPS website where they say they do insure Bullion

and I believe your response was

Anyone that walks into their local post office and says "Hey guys, I'm sending a bundle of cash and/or bullion here, did I wrap it OK?" probably doesn't have the highest IQ around, if you get my drift.

 

As your acknowledgement that they do insure bullion, but you don't think its a good idea.

[Maniac479]

Look Spitoon, insure your bullion with the USPS. Fine with me, and go ahead and call me a liar. Just don't ask me what I think of your Litecoin silver scheme.