Are we delusional?

[Greendragon]

Just watched this guy speaking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYJdOiLqSxE

[CEG5952]

People like him would really regret it and eat what they'll say about bitcoin. Bitcoin's future is bright. "The theory of greater fool" yes it is but as I always believe in this quote "Strike the iron while its hot".

[spiderbrain]

I look forward to bringing that link up again in a few years and having a good laugh.

[Cconvert2G36]

The CEO of Bitcoin committed suicide, I heard. All the monez was stolen by a guy wearing a magical tux.

[CEG5952]

I look forward to bringing that link up again in a few years and having a good laugh.

I can already see their faces in the future. They'd be like:

[TheRealistMassiah1]

Just think of it rationally and logically ... Bitcoin uses a base standard currency = USD / EUR / CNY .... now think of it, those currencies alone account for 80% or more of the worlds GDP with established economies and backing of those currencies with the IMF and in net imports and exports to account for their value. How ever Bitcoin is based on backless speculation of a realized "Value" ... How is this value determined?? a ledger? value in property? value in its source code? backed by debt? ... There is only one way to increase "bitcoins value" currently its low volume and an influx of increase of buyer side = short term DELTA of a sellers market instead of a "buyers" market... just think of it as wanting to buy candy and the candy maker was not expecting for an increase in 100% of volume so he has to increase the price to decrease the volume. This is easy to manipulate when there are very small key players in the market. So to the question of delusional... it is up to you to understand the economics and viability of bitcoin. It is only valued as people pump real currency into it and this money is held by your Exchanges... Remember what happened when MT Gox? that is just a reminder.

Edit and addition to my post.
Jeffrey Robinson is quite correct about virtual and digital currency as the future path for currency as its more efficient and is the only measurable answer for the future. Example is Denmark, how ever it is not a "Crypto" system of money its more of a standardized system like using your debit card. This way they can deter fraud and account for various aspects of the system.

[RoadStress]

He is the delusional retard if he expects that a government will be able to mimic bitcoin in order to facilitate digital payments and digital cash!

[Cconvert2G36]

Just think of it rationally and logically ... Bitcoin uses a base standard currency = USD / EUR / CNY .... now think of it, those currencies alone account for 80% or more of the worlds GDP with established economies and backing of those currencies with the IMF and in net imports and exports to account for their value. How ever Bitcoin is based on backless speculation of a realized "Value" ... How is this value determined?? a ledger? value in property? value in its source code? backed by debt? ... There is only one way to increase "bitcoins value" currently its low volume and an influx of increase of buyer side = short term DELTA of a sellers market instead of a "buyers" market... just think of it as wanting to buy candy and the candy maker was not expecting for an increase in 100% of volume so he has to increase the price to decrease the volume. This is easy to manipulate when there are very small key players in the market. So to the question of delusional... it is up to you to understand the economics and viability of bitcoin. It is only valued as people pump real currency into it and this money is held by your Exchanges... Remember what happened when MT Gox? that is just a reminder.

Edit and addition to my post.
Jeffrey Robinson is quite correct about virtual and digital currency as the future path for currency as its more efficient and is the only measurable answer for the future. Example is Denmark, how ever it is not a "Crypto" system of money its more of a standardized system like using your debit card. This way they can deter fraud and account for various aspects of the system.

Wow, sounds revolutionary, and not already completely saturated. People who want a central party to "back" bitcoin (with the servitude of people's future labors), would best be advised to shun, stay in low load mutual funds, cash, and bonds plz.

[TheRealistMassiah1]

Just think of it rationally and logically ... Bitcoin uses a base standard currency = USD / EUR / CNY .... now think of it, those currencies alone account for 80% or more of the worlds GDP with established economies and backing of those currencies with the IMF and in net imports and exports to account for their value. How ever Bitcoin is based on backless speculation of a realized "Value" ... How is this value determined?? a ledger? value in property? value in its source code? backed by debt? ... There is only one way to increase "bitcoins value" currently its low volume and an influx of increase of buyer side = short term DELTA of a sellers market instead of a "buyers" market... just think of it as wanting to buy candy and the candy maker was not expecting for an increase in 100% of volume so he has to increase the price to decrease the volume. This is easy to manipulate when there are very small key players in the market. So to the question of delusional... it is up to you to understand the economics and viability of bitcoin. It is only valued as people pump real currency into it and this money is held by your Exchanges... Remember what happened when MT Gox? that is just a reminder.

Edit and addition to my post.
Jeffrey Robinson is quite correct about virtual and digital currency as the future path for currency as its more efficient and is the only measurable answer for the future. Example is Denmark, how ever it is not a "Crypto" system of money its more of a standardized system like using your debit card. This way they can deter fraud and account for various aspects of the system.

Wow, sounds revolutionary, and not already completely saturated. People who want a central party to "back" bitcoin (with the servitude of people's future labors), would best be advised to shun, stay in low load mutual funds, cash, and bonds plz.

LOL, I had a good laugh, Thanks Cconvert2G36 ...
The current question boils down to what purpose can a crypto coin serve that current currency/ banking has not already served?


Side note:  There are still lots of liabilities in crypto coins Eg. Lost Wallets, irreversible transactions, no insurance, Exchange defaults, liquidity etc..

[Cconvert2G36]

Just think of it rationally and logically ... Bitcoin uses a base standard currency = USD / EUR / CNY .... now think of it, those currencies alone account for 80% or more of the worlds GDP with established economies and backing of those currencies with the IMF and in net imports and exports to account for their value. How ever Bitcoin is based on backless speculation of a realized "Value" ... How is this value determined?? a ledger? value in property? value in its source code? backed by debt? ... There is only one way to increase "bitcoins value" currently its low volume and an influx of increase of buyer side = short term DELTA of a sellers market instead of a "buyers" market... just think of it as wanting to buy candy and the candy maker was not expecting for an increase in 100% of volume so he has to increase the price to decrease the volume. This is easy to manipulate when there are very small key players in the market. So to the question of delusional... it is up to you to understand the economics and viability of bitcoin. It is only valued as people pump real currency into it and this money is held by your Exchanges... Remember what happened when MT Gox? that is just a reminder.

Edit and addition to my post.
Jeffrey Robinson is quite correct about virtual and digital currency as the future path for currency as its more efficient and is the only measurable answer for the future. Example is Denmark, how ever it is not a "Crypto" system of money its more of a standardized system like using your debit card. This way they can deter fraud and account for various aspects of the system.

Wow, sounds revolutionary, and not already completely saturated. People who want a central party to "back" bitcoin (with the servitude of people's future labors), would best be advised to shun, stay in low load mutual funds, cash, and bonds plz.

LOL, I had a good laugh, Thanks Cconvert2G36 ...
The current question boils down to what purpose can a crypto coin serve that current currency/ banking has not already served?


Side note:  There are still lots of liabilities in crypto coins Eg. Lost Wallets, irreversible transactions, no insurance, Exchange defaults, liquidity etc..

It has inflation that approaches zero, vs approaching infinity. QED

The liabilities you name are commensurate with its status in the global financial market, i.e. tiny, illiquid, volatile, and unforgiving. Scale and services will rise to meet this challenge, and/or the burden will be on the holder of the keys, as it always has been.

[TheRealistMassiah1]

Just think of it rationally and logically ... Bitcoin uses a base standard currency = USD / EUR / CNY .... now think of it, those currencies alone account for 80% or more of the worlds GDP with established economies and backing of those currencies with the IMF and in net imports and exports to account for their value. How ever Bitcoin is based on backless speculation of a realized "Value" ... How is this value determined?? a ledger? value in property? value in its source code? backed by debt? ... There is only one way to increase "bitcoins value" currently its low volume and an influx of increase of buyer side = short term DELTA of a sellers market instead of a "buyers" market... just think of it as wanting to buy candy and the candy maker was not expecting for an increase in 100% of volume so he has to increase the price to decrease the volume. This is easy to manipulate when there are very small key players in the market. So to the question of delusional... it is up to you to understand the economics and viability of bitcoin. It is only valued as people pump real currency into it and this money is held by your Exchanges... Remember what happened when MT Gox? that is just a reminder.

Edit and addition to my post.
Jeffrey Robinson is quite correct about virtual and digital currency as the future path for currency as its more efficient and is the only measurable answer for the future. Example is Denmark, how ever it is not a "Crypto" system of money its more of a standardized system like using your debit card. This way they can deter fraud and account for various aspects of the system.

Wow, sounds revolutionary, and not already completely saturated. People who want a central party to "back" bitcoin (with the servitude of people's future labors), would best be advised to shun, stay in low load mutual funds, cash, and bonds plz.

LOL, I had a good laugh, Thanks Cconvert2G36 ...
The current question boils down to what purpose can a crypto coin serve that current currency/ banking has not already served?


Side note:  There are still lots of liabilities in crypto coins Eg. Lost Wallets, irreversible transactions, no insurance, Exchange defaults, liquidity etc..

It has inflation that approaches zero, vs approaching infinity. QED

The liabilities you name are commensurate with its status in the global financial market, i.e. tiny, illiquid, volatile, and unforgiving. Scale and services will rise to meet this challenge, and/or the burden will be on the holder of the keys, as it always has been.

I don't know if you have the appropriate idea of inflation vs deflation and the usability of currency, but ill use a case example. Lets just say by 2025 bitcoin reaches 95% of all of its coins into the market, Lets put this figurative number at 20,000,000 coins... Then lets just say every year per annum (year over year) approximately 5% of coins are lost  (currently as of 2015 30% of all bitcoins are "lost").... so by year 2025 there would only be approximately 20-40% viable coins left(4,000,000-8,000,000) ... Okay and then lets account for the halvings as well. At this point lets just say there are "active bitcoin holders" of 100% increase every year lets just say by year 2025 that is a total 250,000,000 active bitcoin holders (not accounting for empty wallets that number could be in the "billions") ... so if we calculate everything people would have to be accounting their bitcoins in satoshi's how would that work out as a viable solution for economical trade. Will everyone have to be a millionaire to even purchase 1 bitcoin?


addition to post:
my brain went on a tangent and forgot to give case example for inflation of the base currencies of USD / EUR / CNY .... currency for inflation on the high end for USD = 3-4% inflation , EURO = 1-2% , CNY = 3-4% ... (These values are greatly optimistic in inflation) ... so 1 dollar in 2025 would still be valued at approximately 80ish cents but you have to remember standard of living and minimum wage increases as a whole, as well as gdp should in the case it doesn't then natural deflation or stagnation occurs.

[Cconvert2G36]

An owner of 1 btc holds 100,000,000 satoshis. An explicitly and provably deflationary currency may have problems of its own, but unit measurement need not be one of them. For every price increase, some of the early hoarders pull the ripcord, this distributes the coin in the fairest way possible.

 

[podyx]

What else is he proposing as digital currency/payments?

Paypal...?

Anyway, this seems like one of those guys who think the price should've gone from $0.01 to $5million overnight. Rome was built in a day and so on.

[TheRealistMassiah1]

What else is he proposing as digital currency/payments?

Paypal...?

Anyway, this seems like one of those guys who think the price should've gone from $0.01 to $5million overnight. Rome was built in a day and so on.

Was that directed at me? I am just simply stating case and scenarios of the viability of scale. Also the author presented in that youtube vid has a knowledgeable answer to how he thinks the way of "virtual currencies" will go, never mentioning "cryptocurrencies" because he thinks those will be phased out, just a thought that  I think that should be pointed out.

[Fiat_Hodler]

All I know is that paypal and western union are terrible.

That is enough for me to know bitcoin will succeed.

[TheRealistMassiah1]

All I know is that paypal and western union are terrible.

That is enough for me to know bitcoin will succeed.

How are they terrible? The fees?, and how are those 2 companies an example of how bitcoin will succeed?


Side note: The reason for virtual currency(like in Denmark) is to essentially weed out those type of "wiring exchange houses" so you can send money like via venmo , where debit card to debit card transfers = 0 fees and practically "instantaneous", with bitcoin you have to go into another country that recognizes bitcoin, and then exchange it for their currency and itll be a different value than your home country(sometimes by losing money on the exchange), while if you were to wire transfer your money it would cost a base fee of 45$ to wire it and then if you have a card that waives international exchange fees = way less in cost than bitcoin and more secure.

extra side note: i guess unless you are extra anarchist type, that doesn't like taxes or government to hide your dealings welp, not much of an answer or excuse there i guess...

[JimboToronto]

Am I the only one here who thinks the guy in the video sounds like a carnival barker?

The word "shill" comes to mind.

He also speaks of regulation as if it were a good thing and ignores the decentralized ability of Bitcoin to resist control.

Did he really refer to the Winklevoss brothers as "kids"?  

LOL What a joke.

[TheRealistMassiah1]

Am I the only one here who thinks the guy in the video sounds like a carnival barker?

The word "shill" comes to mind.

He also speaks of regulation as if it were a good thing and ignores the decentralized ability of Bitcoin to resist control.

Did he really refer to the Winklevoss brothers as "kids"?  

LOL What a joke.

I have no clue what you are trying to point out?? ... out of all the points within bitcoin you point out regulation? ... you do realize to be recognized as a currency it has to be regulated right (who wants to utilize a system where the price can fluctuate so widely?).. you also didn't point out how bitcoin pricing works, money has to go into the system to give bitcoin a value. so bitcoin is more of an "account" where you hope that the value of 1 bitcoin stays or becomes greater than the value that was there when you originally purchased 1 bitcoin. The reason why you have money in your pocket is that you know when you use that 1 dollar to buy a soda it'll still be worth a soda , what if the bitcoin could no longer buy that soda?

[Fiat_Hodler]

All I know is that paypal and western union are terrible.

That is enough for me to know bitcoin will succeed.

How are they terrible? The fees?, and how are those 2 companies an example of how bitcoin will succeed?

WU = Fees

Paypal = (3% fees arent that bad) They do 180 day balance freezes. No reasons necessarily supplied. They can also shut your account down. Just google it. Plenty of people are regularly screwed by them.

[TheRealistMassiah1]

All I know is that paypal and western union are terrible.

That is enough for me to know bitcoin will succeed.

How are they terrible? The fees?, and how are those 2 companies an example of how bitcoin will succeed?

WU = Fees

Paypal = (3% fees arent that bad) They do 180 day balance freezes. No reasons necessarily supplied. They can also shut your account down. Just google it. Plenty of people are regularly screwed by them.

(including my sidenote that was left out)
Side note: The reason for virtual currency(like in Denmark) is to essentially weed out those type of "wiring exchange houses" so you can send money like via venmo , where debit card to debit card transfers = 0 fees and practically "instantaneous", with bitcoin you have to go into another country that recognizes bitcoin, and then exchange it for their currency and itll be a different value than your home country(sometimes by losing money on the exchange), while if you were to wire transfer your money it would cost a base fee of 45$ to wire it and then if you have a card that waives international exchange fees = way less in cost than bitcoin and more secure.

extra side note: i guess unless you are extra anarchist type, that doesn't like taxes or government to hide your dealings welp, not much of an answer or excuse there i guess...
_____________________________________


Why did you leave out my Side note , it was the most essential part to helping you understand the value of other companies that provide a near peer 2 peer solution in hind sight of western union and paypal, also paypal has set up those flags to prevent money laundering and fraud, if you are a business or a consumer that has identified themselves as such what do you have to worry about, heck you can transfer 10's of thousand to even hundreds of thousands and they wouldn't bat an eye because they are making money by you transferring that money. It's also a lot more liquid in terms of steps to obtaining that money.


Extra tangent:
Bitcoin exchanges now a days require some form of identification and freezes your accounts when withdrawing a certain amount to your bank account so your reasoning is kind of flawed..

additional tangent: Bitcoins have fees as well =/