Nefario GLBSE

[Littleshop]

A lot of confusion here.  How many shares did Goat buy, at what price, and did he sell them?

[kjj]

Nefario didnt scam the people Goat sold the shares to for 10btc. Goat scammed them.

This seems to be an unfounded accusation.  Do you have some evidence that he acted in less than good faith?

If Goat had inside information that the Nefario would not honor his word, but that information wasn't also available to the people he sold them to, I could see it.  But your dislike of profit doesn't seem sufficient.

They were scam trades because Goat had no agreement that he could on-sell those shares. Even real glbse shareholders cant sell their shares to non members.Goat is calling Nefario a scammer because Nefario wont let him make 10,000% profit. Can you see how insane that is

I'm not upset that the GLBSE stock is now locked and that I can't sell it. I am upset that I was told I had real GLBSE stock and was part owner of GLBSE and then Nefario is here to steal my property.

I would like the GLBSE stock to be honored. Nefario can not change the deal months later and take my property. That is clearly scamming.

I don't think you are going to win this one.  He made a mistake by promising something that wasn't his to give.  Suck it up and be a man, either accept the buyback offer and make a profit on the deal, or keep them with the knowledge that they may vanish some day (I hope not, as I posted before) and will probably never be worth anything.

I'm sorry that you thought that you were part owner of the exchange, but you weren't, and it wasn't a scam, just an honest mistake.

[Nefario]

Do you have a citation for the pricing?  I haven't seen anything to suggest that Goat purchased at the IPO price and then sold for a profit.  It sounds more like he purchased them for 10 BTC each, but I don't think he's actually said that explicitly.

Goat never stated or even implied he bought shares for 10 BTC ea.  He did however sell fake shares he knew were worthless for 10 BTC to unsuspecting fools.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109660.msg1212459#msg1212459

Claiming that I sold an asset I knew to be fake is silly. Nefario said he would make right on the asset and many of us trusted him. Theymos even said he could trade his own stock.

Now what Nefario wants to do is a forced sale. He want to force me to give up an asset cuz he claims he can no longer do what he said.

This is clearly theft and there is no protection for property rights. They fact that most of you think his actions are okay here is worrying.

You can not just take stuff from people... That is a crime...

According to our bylaws Theymos has gotten the permission of other GLBSE shareholders to do that, and it depends on who he is selling to, which also requires other GLBSE shareholders permission.

There is an offer to sell your fake asset to us for 0.12BTC, it's a pretty good offer, I suggest anyone who has this fake asset to take it.

You can not just take stuff from people... That is a crime...

You only had property under two conditions:
1) GLBSE shareholders have agreed to honor this. They have not.
2) That you followed our bylaws in how the asset could be bought and sold. you did not.

GLBSE is not your property.

[stochastic]

Do you have a citation for the pricing?  I haven't seen anything to suggest that Goat purchased at the IPO price and then sold for a profit.  It sounds more like he purchased them for 10 BTC each, but I don't think he's actually said that explicitly.

Goat never stated or even implied he bought shares for 10 BTC ea.  He did however sell fake shares he knew were worthless for 10 BTC to unsuspecting fools.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109660.msg1212459#msg1212459

Claiming that I sold an asset I knew to be fake is silly. Nefario said he would make right on the asset and many of us trusted him. Theymos even said he could trade his own stock.

Now what Nefario wants to do is a forced sale. He want to force me to give up an asset cuz he claims he can no longer do what he said.

This is clearly theft and there is no protection for property rights. They fact that most of you think his actions are okay here is worrying.

You can not just take stuff from people... That is a crime...

According to our bylaws Theymos has gotten the permission of other GLBSE shareholders to do that, and it depends on who he is selling to, which also requires other GLBSE shareholders permission.

There is an offer to sell your fake asset to us for 0.12BTC, it's a pretty good offer, I suggest anyone who has this fake asset to take it.

You can not just take stuff from people... That is a crime...

You only had property under two conditions:
1) GLBSE shareholders have agreed to honor this. They have not.
2) That you followed our bylaws in how the asset could be bought and sold. you did not.

GLBSE is not your property.

I know the GLBSE shares were started as a scam, but if you actually did say you would honor those shares as real shares of GLBSE but you needed authorization before giving out any more shares by your agreement with other shareholders, you are still liable.  The other owners maybe be able to keep goat from any ownership, but you would be liable for his losses for his perceived ownership.  You might be able to get away with it if you did not really organize the business legally before all this mess happened.  You should refrain from discussing any of this in public anymore and not say anything until instructed by your lawyer.

I actually saw GLBSE shares for sale and was looking into buying them as well, but then I saw the price was at 10BTC.  I did not buy because I thought it was overpriced.  Glad I didn't.

[Nefario]

Do you have a citation for the pricing?  I haven't seen anything to suggest that Goat purchased at the IPO price and then sold for a profit.  It sounds more like he purchased them for 10 BTC each, but I don't think he's actually said that explicitly.

Goat never stated or even implied he bought shares for 10 BTC ea.  He did however sell fake shares he knew were worthless for 10 BTC to unsuspecting fools.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109660.msg1212459#msg1212459

Claiming that I sold an asset I knew to be fake is silly. Nefario said he would make right on the asset and many of us trusted him. Theymos even said he could trade his own stock.

Now what Nefario wants to do is a forced sale. He want to force me to give up an asset cuz he claims he can no longer do what he said.

This is clearly theft and there is no protection for property rights. They fact that most of you think his actions are okay here is worrying.

You can not just take stuff from people... That is a crime...

According to our bylaws Theymos has gotten the permission of other GLBSE shareholders to do that, and it depends on who he is selling to, which also requires other GLBSE shareholders permission.

There is an offer to sell your fake asset to us for 0.12BTC, it's a pretty good offer, I suggest anyone who has this fake asset to take it.

You can not just take stuff from people... That is a crime...

You only had property under two conditions:
1) GLBSE shareholders have agreed to honor this. They have not.
2) That you followed our bylaws in how the asset could be bought and sold. you did not.

GLBSE is not your property.

If you do not honor your agreement with me that is one thing, if you force sell my asset that is theft. I do not agree to your .12 BTC price.

We'll see what the lawyer says.

[LoupGaroux]

Goat actually bought all of his "many" shares after the asset was declared fraudulent. If he wants to claim anything it should be with the criminal element that originally listed the asset. Nefario took the extraordinary step of blocking the asset and delisting it to prevent any trade in a worthless item.

perception is empty. Anyone's "perceived" value doesn't amount to a hill of beans in terms of legal standing. What Goatse bought was fake shares created by a criminal. Whatever his profit motive or ownership goal in those shares was negated when they were identified as fake. That he held them and clearly tried to list them for sale without disclosing any of the tainted history indicated that this is perhaps another case where Goatse has been caught in lies and deceptive practices, and is making loud noises to divert attention from his attempted sale of fraudulent shares.

In fact, I would call for Nefario to compare IP addresses with the original scammer who created GLBSE Fake, and the IP addresses Goatse has used to create his spectrum of efforts on the different GLBSE markets. Wonder if there is any corollary there? Could this just be a desparate endgame to play out for a few more suckers on the 30 BTC somebody has already stolen? I would certainly look into it if I was a legitimate owner of GLBSE, I sure wouldn't want to let a viper into the clubhouse.

Oh, and Goatse? The terms for GLBSE ownership have been publicly posted and available for well over a year that I am aware of. Certainly any businessman worth his slat would have done the due diligence of learning about a company he invested in PRIOR to buying those shares, wouldn't you agree? Or is just plain ignorance going to be your defense this time around?

[LoupGaroux]

No slander sonny, just a valid question. You were very active listing assets when it was free and unregulated to do so. This issue came up during a weekend, which was coincidentally when you tended to create your ventures. The language in the contract documents was startlingly similar to the language used in your asset listings.

I just suggest that those with access to the data may want to think about a little comparison to learn why some very vocal children are crying for so much attention.

Your insistence on oblique shifts in discussion do nothing to strengthen your position. Nefario never claimed they were "valid" shares. He claimed that there would be a way of honoring them. Without any stated method for doing so, and with the clear stated and obvious proviso that honoring them was an accommodation for the error in not controlling the name of the asset prior to its criminal implementation. And demanding access to the codicils of an investment group which have been available for over a year is silly. Do your homework before you shoot off at the mouth.

And claiming I listed the asset is churlish and baseless. As Nefario can clear up for you, I was very actively engaged with him at that very time looking for scammers, like yourself, who were destroying the first version of the market. In fact... now that I recall, wasn't Peter Lambert a big fan of yours? And didn't he actively coach you on asset creation? And wasn't that right around the time GLBSE Fake was created, and then the LIF family of funds turned out to be just as fake as the pass-through you ran for pirate?

Are you absolutely certain you want to open up that kettle of fish, rice boy?

[Bitcoin Oz]

Goat actually bought all of his "many" shares after the asset was declared fraudulent. If he wants to claim anything it should be with the criminal element that originally listed the asset. Nefario took the extraordinary step of blocking the asset and delisting it to prevent any trade in a worthless item.

perception is empty. Anyone's "perceived" value doesn't amount to a hill of beans in terms of legal standing. What Goatse bought was fake shares created by a criminal. Whatever his profit motive or ownership goal in those shares was negated when they were identified as fake. That he held them and clearly tried to list them for sale without disclosing any of the tainted history indicated that this is perhaps another case where Goatse has been caught in lies and deceptive practices, and is making loud noises to divert attention from his attempted sale of fraudulent shares.

In fact, I would call for Nefario to compare IP addresses with the original scammer who created GLBSE Fake, and the IP addresses Goatse has used to create his spectrum of efforts on the different GLBSE markets. Wonder if there is any corollary there? Could this just be a desparate endgame to play out for a few more suckers on the 30 BTC somebody has already stolen? I would certainly look into it if I was a legitimate owner of GLBSE, I sure wouldn't want to let a viper into the clubhouse.

Oh, and Goatse? The terms for GLBSE ownership have been publicly posted and available for well over a year that I am aware of. Certainly any businessman worth his slat would have done the due diligence of learning about a company he invested in PRIOR to buying those shares, wouldn't you agree? Or is just plain ignorance going to be your defense this time around?

Nefario said they were valid. I bought them after Nefario said they were valid. I talked to him about this. Others including Theymos do not doubt this. Nefario even claims he said it...

Saying I was the one to list the GLBSE is silly and petty. As far as I know you were the one to do it. See how easy it is to slander with no evidence?

In any event the forced take over of my property is illegal. Deal with it...

If they are valid you broke the glbse bylaws by selling them. Do you not understand this ?

[Luke-Jr]

If they are valid you broke the glbse bylaws by selling them. Do you not understand this ?

Ignoring all the real problems for a moment... there is nothing binding about the GLBSE bylaws by default. I presume the bylaws forbid transfer of shares to anyone who doesn't contractually accept the bylaws, but that obviously wasn't the case here.

[Bitcoin Oz]

No slander sonny, just a valid question. You were very active listing assets when it was free and unregulated to do so. This issue came up during a weekend, which was coincidentally when you tended to create your ventures. The language in the contract documents was startlingly similar to the language used in your asset listings.

I just suggest that those with access to the data may want to think about a little comparison to learn why some very vocal children are crying for so much attention.

Your insistence on oblique shifts in discussion do nothing to strengthen your position. Nefario never claimed they were "valid" shares. He claimed that there would be a way of honoring them. Without any stated method for doing so, and with the clear stated and obvious proviso that honoring them was an accommodation for the error in not controlling the name of the asset prior to its criminal implementation. And demanding access to the codicils of an investment group which have been available for over a year is silly. Do your homework before you shoot off at the mouth.

And claiming I listed the asset is churlish and baseless. As Nefario can clear up for you, I was very actively engaged with him at that very time looking for scammers, like yourself, who were destroying the first version of the market. In fact... now that I recall, wasn't Peter Lambert a big fan of yours? And didn't he actively coach you on asset creation? And wasn't that right around the time GLBSE Fake was created, and then the LIF family of funds turned out to be just as fake as the pass-through you ran for pirate?

Are you absolutely certain you want to open up that kettle of fish, rice boy?

Thats an interesting line of thought.

[Akka]

OMG. Not this again.

Goat, don't you have any feeling for what in morally wrong or right?

Lets assume for a moment you claims where right (which the seem to be not), that doesn't mean you should stick to your claims ant any costs.

That's exactly the same kind of behavior that the people have that sue a coffeehouse because their coffee is to hat and there was no warning.

...

Oh, I know get it. The whole thread was ironic. Good acting Goad. You fooled me.

[Akka]

You may not do anything legally wrong here.

But  you proof again that it is very dangerous to do business with you.

You show that if business doesn't work out the way you expected you will search for every possible loophole to screw you business partner.

Showing this kind of behavior may be the deathblow to your already damaged reputation.

[flower1024]

You may not do anything legally wrong here.

But  you proof again that it is very dangerous to do business with you.

You show that if business doesn't work out the way you expected you will search for every possible loophole to screw you business partner.

Showing this kind of behavior may be the deathblow to your already damaged reputation.

?
goat always did what he said (ok, sometimes he does things and does not tell: but he never broke contract)

on the other side nefario (sometimes) does things because he THINKS thats the right thing to do - and sometimes i think otherwise.

as goat offers securities/investments i think he can do whatever he wants as long as he honors his contracts (what he does).

nefario as the owner of the biggest bitcoin exchange should think very wisely before he acts (examples are DMC, publicate IDs, forcing existing listings to provide id, forbid IPO's listings after taken the fee and so on).

[Akka]

You may not do anything legally wrong here.

But  you proof again that it is very dangerous to do business with you.

You show that if business doesn't work out the way you expected you will search for every possible loophole to screw you business partner.

Showing this kind of behavior may be the deathblow to your already damaged reputation.

?
goat always did what he said (ok, sometimes he does things and does not tell: but he never broke contract)

on the other side nefario (sometimes) does things because he THINKS thats the right thing to do - and sometimes i think otherwise.

as goat offers securities/investments i think he can do whatever he wants as long as he honors his contracts (what he does).

nefario as the owner of the biggest bitcoin exchange should think very wisely before he acts (examples are DMC, publicate IDs, forcing existing listings to provide id, forbid IPO's listings after taken the fee and so on).

Please do not interned extra content into my posts.

I didn't mean that Goat doesn't honor his contract. I mean the opposite. Goat takes contacts and even things said to a level where it just isn't reasonable by common sense anymore.

Just see this thread, or the thread where he tries to get shares on bitcoin magazine.

That's all I meant. I'm still confident that goat will honor all his contracts. I would be carefully if I deal directly with him, or if he would be shareholder of my business, though.

[server]

Oh drama... solve this please.

Nefario is not a scammer. (rediculous)

I also bought GLBSE stocks before V2 was introduced, why was this stock available for such a long time if it was not legit ?

GLBSE allowed this scam to happen so GLBSE is responsible.

[Akka]

[sarcasm]Of course I don't believe in property, things can not be owned, they can only allow you to use them for some time.[/sarcasm]

Why you don't have any shares on real GLBSE has been stated over and over in this thread. I'm not going to repeat it.

By no I'm sure that you just don't understand what my problem is here.

I got the feeling that you absolutely don't understand the difference between law and common sense.

Don't get me wrong goat. I think you are a highly intelligent person. But I get the feeling that you have a huge lack in emotional intelligence.


Edit:

After reviewing, I recognized that this sounds much more offensive that I intended it to. Lets say it was due to my lacking skill in the English language.

[Vandroiy]

Goat, can you please add additional info to the OP? It's important what exactly Nefario said, as is a rough idea about face value and volume of the real and extra GLBSE stocks then and now.

I'm all in favor of people sticking to their word, but not if that leads to unreasonable claims under scammy circumstances. Nefario already said he'd pay some sort of compensation, you say it's too small, so how about we look at the compiled numbers and statements? I can't make heads or tails from it as is.

[Akka]

Goat, can you please add additional info to the OP? It's important what exactly Nefario said, as is a rough idea about face value and volume of the real and extra GLBSE stocks then and now.

I'm all in favor of people sticking to their word, but not if that leads to unreasonable claims under scammy circumstances. Nefario already said he'd pay some sort of compensation, you say it's too small, so how about we look at the compiled numbers and statements? I can't make heads or tails from it as is.

I operated for months with the assumption that I was a part owner of GLBSE and would eventually get more stock either given to me or I would be able to buy it.

What I am upset with is the forced sale of my asset even if others see it as worthless. I do not want to sell I should not be forced.

If Nefario does not want to hold his word that is fine but he should not take what I own.

If all you want is to keep you worthless fake GLBSE shares and Nefario wants to force buy them you indeed have a point, IMO.

My understanding was that you wanted a ridiculous price  or ownership in GLBSE for them.

If that's not the case, than please accept my apology.

[phungus]

Not saying it's true or anything, but I've noticed that nicknames seem to speak a lot about people...


ne·far·i·ous

Definition of NEFARIOUS
: flagrantly wicked or impious : evil
— ne·far·i·ous·ly adverb

Examples of NEFARIOUS

    a nefarious scheme to cheat people out of their money

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nefarious




It is so hard to trust anyone in this community at all. You really have to think about long-term implications of "what can go wrong". Everyone seems to be so willing to rush into deals with each other, then are quick to yell "Lawyer Up, dude" when there is some disagreement.

This is exactly what is wrong with the world right now. No personal responsibility.

-p

[Bitcoin Oz]

Just how much do you think GLBSE will be worth when people know you own part of it ?