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Author Topic: [ASICMining.B] ASIC Investments - Establishing my Investment Firm, Part 1  (Read 4771 times)
Korbman (OP)
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September 23, 2012, 03:21:32 PM
Last edit: October 24, 2012, 02:25:23 PM by Korbman
 #1

We've moved to: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119628.0

Hi all! I’ve been working on creating my new Fund, which was completed in August (though hasn’t been posted yet), but I figured it’s time for a brief presentation  Smiley

Also, as a result of the GLBSE fiasco, I'll be moving my fund to another exchange. At this time, I'm currently looking for suggestions on where to move it to.

In a one sentence summary, here’s the overarching idea: Establishment of my Investment Firm.

To reach this goal, I’ve split my idea into two parts.
Part 1) Creation of a Note fund to raise capital for ASIC Equipment.
Part 2) Creation of a Stock IPO to raise capital to establish my company in a small office to hold server equipment (for the pool) and possibly the mining equipment raised by the Notes. The parent company to the online moniker “ASIC Investments” is Korb and Co. Investments, LLC. This LLC is the ‘real world’ company that deals not only in bitcoins, but eventually normal investments as well (and for accounting and tax purposes).

Each requires a substantial amount of work, but the most important part here is the equipment, so I focused my work on the Notes to start. The equipment will allow for a revenue stream until my Stock release, as well as other investment opportunities outside of bitcoin, comes to fruition.

But first, a bit about me.
My name is Andrew Korb, and I currently live in South Burlington, Vermont.
I’m a 23 year old, 2011 college graduate with a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration (and soon to be working on my second degree in Computer Science, with a long term goal of Information Systems Management).

I currently work as a Systems Administrator for a small consulting company called Open Approach, Inc based in Bristol, Vermont, though I work out of Burlington (and we don’t have a website yet). We oversee the deployment and expansion of servers and networks for small businesses (under 500 employees), coupled with standard Help Desk support.

Financial Management and Investing has been a long time hobby of mine (over a decade now). During college I came up with my Investment Firm ‘Korb and Co. Investments’ with a friend of mine with the idea of someday having the capital to establish the company and make meaningful investments. Though the idea has fallen by the wayside for him, it still flourishes in me.

Creation of these funds is a way to help me realize these dreams (or at the very least, put me on the right path), so I’m 100% vested in the success of this venture. I want to do anything I can to make it a ‘Win-Win’ situation for everyone involved.

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September 23, 2012, 03:22:30 PM
Last edit: October 17, 2012, 11:47:27 PM by Korbman
 #2

Note Details:
With the upcoming Butterfly Labs ASIC rigs (set to be launched October 2012), Hashes / sec will begin to make the transition from GH/s to TH/s for typical miners over the next 12 months. Basic devices are set to start out at 4.5GH/s, while full mining rigs will go up to an astounding 1.5TH/s.

I'm looking to make a purchase of 5 BFL SC "Mini-Rigs" (highest end @ 1.5TH/s apiece). At the current price of $30,247USD each ($29,899 + $348 shipping), purchasing 5 rigs amounts to $151,235USD, which is a substantial goal to meet under some of the best financial circumstances.

To reach my equipment requirements, I am looking to issue 50,000 Notes, priced at 1BTC apiece with a buyback period starting at in March 2013 (Five [5] months after rigs are released to market, Three [3] after assumed arrival time) and extending to December 31st, 2013 (based on funds available).

Each Note will have a Coupon Rate of 1% per month until March 2013, during which the rate will increase to 2%, until October when it goes to 4%. In December 2013, the Rate will increase one last time to 6% to pay back the final Note holders.

The starting buyback price will be 1.10BTC for the first 6 months (March - September 2013), 1.15BTC for 3 months (September - November 2013), and 1.20BTC for the last month. This would mean a 15 month holding (October 1st, 2012 to December 31st, 2013). The largest Note Holders will receive the most ROI as their holdings will last the longest.

This is all possible as a result of 32% (calculated as the most efficient percent) of all remaining Notes being purchased back during the Buyback Period per month. For example, if all 50,000 Notes are in the market during March, then 16,000 Notes will be purchased back, followed by 10,880 during April, and so on. This will continue until December 2013 when all remain Notes will be purchased back with maximum Coupon Rates and Buyback price.

If substantial funds remain during the final 3 months of 2013, up to 75% of all profit will go to current Note holders in the form of a further increased Coupon Rate and Buyback price. The other 25% will be reinvested in the company.

Assuming the Bitcoin market stays in stable state during the next 12 months after the transition from GPU to ASIC mining and the reward split in December 2012, mining at 7.5TH/s is set to have a payback period of around 6-8 months. This includes accounting for a substantial difficulty increase (1250%), a total network hash rate of 250TH/s, and 25BTC per block. Realistically, the hash rate will start off around 150TH/s and increase to 300TH/s over 12 months.


Note Info:
Ticker Symbol: ASICMining.B
Company: ASIC Investments (under parent company Korb and Co. Investments, LLC)
Notes to be sold: 50,000
Price (ea.): 1BTC
Monetary Goal to Raise: $375,000 [Any extra funds beyond equipment needs are used for Early Buybacks]

Blog, Twitter, Forum, and Email
Email: ASICInvestments@gmail.com
Website: korbman.webs.com
Twitter: A_Korb (though admittedly I barely ever use twitter)
Blog: korbman.webs.com
Google Docs Accounting Info: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhnW49twNMNbdEpXb2VyU3NGYS1VQ2dJUmVtaWlMOHc
Forum Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112232.0



Basic Contract Information:
My fund offers Note holders exposure to the underlying equipment investments for Korb and Co. Investments, LLC, herein known as the ‘Parent Company’, currently in development.

Each Note has an initial value of 1BTC, currently backed 10% by funds held by the Parent Company. Current Coupon Rate is set for 1% every last day of the month until the start of the Buyback Period (March 1st, 2013). Upon that time, the Coupon Rate will double to 2%, 4%, and eventually to 6% during the last month of Buybacks.

Initial fund offering is currently established for October 1st, 2012 at 12:00EST (GMT-5). Orders for the BFL SC "Mini-Rig" will be placed during the next two (2) months until December 31st, 2012. Funds left over from any "Rig" not purchased by January 1st, 2013 will be issued as Early Buybacks.

March 1st, 2013 starts the initial Buyback Period, where Notes will be repurchased for 1.10BTC apiece, and otherwise equivalent to a 10% return on investment (ROI) for holding the Note for Six (6) Months. Starting September 1st, 2013, Buybacks will increase to 1.15BTC, equivalent to a 15% ROI for an 11 month holding period. Lastly, starting December 1st, 2013 repurchases will be increased to 1.20BTC to reward Note Holders with a 20% ROI for a 15 Month holding.

Profit gained (up to 75%) during the Buyback Period (March 1st, 2013 - December 31st, 2013) will lead to increased Coupon Rates and Buyback prices.

The Issuer reserves the right to buy back any outstanding Notes at a price equal to 1.005 times the Initial (Par) Value before the Buyback Period begins, stated as “Early Buybacks”.

The Issuer reserves the right to extend and/or otherwise modify the Buyback period and ROI after reevaluating current market conditions, block difficulty, BFL SC "Mini-Rig" 'received' dates, and general feasibility.

The Issuer also reserves the right to modify the Coupon Rate to accurately reflect market conditions, income, and profitability. This rate can be modified higher or lower to correctly compete with other market values for similar Stocks, Bonds, and/or Notes.

In the unlikely event that Butterfly Labs is unable to fulfill their orders or is otherwise not accepting purchases, the Issuer reserves the right to Buyback any outstanding Notes at 97.5% Par Value to cover expenses and fees.

These are nonvoting Notes.
The Issuer will strive to achieve the promises made in this document to the best of their human ability.

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September 23, 2012, 03:23:15 PM
Last edit: October 17, 2012, 11:46:03 PM by Korbman
 #3

Risks and Compensation for Investors:
The object here is for me to pay my investors first. They put their hard earned (or mined) money with me, so the least I can do is pay them back in the most efficient manner.
Profits – Investors receive the first cut of any profits. Substantial profits as a result of the equipment will result in increased Buyback and Coupon Rate percentages.
Adjustments – The financial state of the company will be adjusted in the event that our Monetary Goal is not reached for the purchase of Five [5] BFL SC “Mini-Rigs”. Meaning, if I can’t afford 5, then I’ll buy as many as I can that still results in a stable financial sheet over the course of 15 months (October 1st, 2012 to December 31st, 2013).
Fund Failure – In the event that not enough money is raised for any purchases [or if the IPO is no longer feasible given extraordinary circumstances], I plan on buying back Notes at a rate 1.005x the Par Value (initial purchase price).
Transparency – All investors will have access to financial statements and documents regarding the progress of the Parent Company and Notes over the course of the asset’s lifetime.
Risk – All investors, whether in the actual New York Stock Exchange or the guy lending you $20, assume a certain degree of risk. As proprietor of the Notes, it is my job to try and minimize risk. As the investor, it is your job to understand the risks you take.

QA:
I freely admit that I am basing these questions off of Friedcat’s post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0). I thought they were well written and addressed many of the questions a typical investor might have, so why not use them as well Smiley

Q: Wait, what? What’s a “Note”?
A: A Note is similar to a Bond in that they both pertain to taking on debt for company purchases. A Bond is typically used to finance a large corporate purchase, has a maturity date of over 10 years, and is typically underwritten by an investment bank.

A Note, on the other hand, has a maturity date greater than one year but less than 10, does not need to be underwritten when under $1.5 million in requested funding, and does not need to be registered by the SEC (here in the US) when designed as a Secured Promissory Note. For this reason, a Note is much more aptly applied to my fund compared to a Bond or a Bill (secured debt with a maturity date established for less than one year).


Q: Really? Another Mining Equipment Note? Why…
A:  I’m not entirely sure why there is so much resentment towards these sort of Notes. A stock is issued to help grow a company; a Note is issued to help with purchases for said company, particularly for equipment.
 
In all honestly, mining equipment is the easiest way for me to build capital for my firm. Though my revenue stream would be based around block difficulty and BTC/USD value, it will still prove to be relatively stable over the coming year or two. I wrote an analysis on the feasibility of ASIC devices after a mass switch from FPGA, difficulty spike, and reward split, and as it turns out my idea is still quite profitable.

Remember, I’m not trying to be a “one trick pony” here. The object is to build my firm. Once that is set, profits from mining will be folded over into dividends for stock holders.

Q: An investment firm, eh? What do you plan on investing in?
A: There are actually a ton of ideas flowing through my head when asked this. My favorite investments are in technology, clean energy, and property/land. I plan on creating various investment portfolios over time that deal with all of these. I plan on creating portfolios that deal with things like microfinance (through companies such as Kiva [kiva.org], or Lending Club [lendingclub.com]). You name it, if it looks like a solid long term investment, then I will consider it.

In other words, the ‘Too Long; Didn’t Read’ version is:
•   Portfolio Management
•   Venture Capital
•   Microfinance
•   Property Management

Q: Is your company actually real?
A: As a matter of fact, all of the paperwork has been filed and approved, so Korb and Co. Investments, LLC is quite real!

To that end, I am also currently abiding by all United States Federal and Vermont State laws (where I live). I have also spoken to a public finance lawyer and a business attorney regarding my plans. In short, there shouldn’t be any issue with gathering virtual funds to cover mining equipment costs. This is because A) I’m working 100% in bitcoins (which do not meet the SEC’s definition of a security under current government regulations), B) I’m creating a secured Note to finance the company equipment, and C) my total funds are under $1.5 million. As a result, I shouldn’t run into any problems with the SEC or FINRA because a Secured Note at this value does not need to be registered by the SEC or underwritten by an investment bank.

Q: What about a Securities and Exchange Commission crackdown and regulation change? How would your company and fund react?
A: In the event of a SEC crackdown, I would have a 30 day grace period (soon to be extended under the JOBS Act) to file for a Regulation A exemption. To qualify as an Investment Company, I would need to have more than just “Investments” in my company name. I would also need an investment business plan and I would need to file regulation paperwork to the SEC and to FINRA. If I don’t qualify for Regulation A, I would need to file for a Regulation D.504 exemption instead, which would allow for my existing fund to continue because of its small size.

Q: Any other company owners?
A: Nope! I’m the sole owner. This means I have the flexibility to make all of the decisions. If any investors have a particular idea or request, I’d be happy to hear them out!

Q: Why should I trust you?
A: Trust isn’t given, it’s earned. I hope that by letting my investors in on the entire business plan, letting them know who I am, and letting them see what I am doing, they’ll see that is in an actual investment. I want to establish myself as a reputable Financial Manager, and I can’t do that if I go around scamming people Smiley

Q: Are you qualified to run a fund?
A: Technically anyone can run a fund, regardless of experience. I’d like to think I’m a bit ahead of the curve because of my investing background and business familiarity.

Q: Why start your fund before ASICs are on the market and tested?
A: The object is to have funds available and preorders in before the devices are released to market. This way, we can get our Rigs and start mining earlier than others. Otherwise, the Buyback period would need to be extended to compensate for the later delivery dates.
As for whether or not the ASIC Rigs will perform as promised, I trust that they would. Butterfly Labs has proven with their FPGA devices that the specs promised were also delivered. I don’t see why they would lie about their new ASIC products. Plus, imagine the outrage when $150,000 of equipment doesn’t do what it was promised to do!

Q: Why not look toward borrowing money for this venture?
A: I’m pretty sure most lenders would laugh at me while I described making money through mining bitcoins  Undecided ..Not to mention the extensive process, fees, and APR would lead to an infeasible project…and all the process of explaining what a “Bitcoin” is!

Q: What is your fundraising target?
A: In USD, it would be around $375,000, which is equal to raising all 50,000 Notes at a market rate of $7.50. This would more than cover the cost of equipment and electricity, pay initial Coupon Rates until mining is fully underway, and have enough left over for Buybacks before the March 2013 ‘official’ buyback period.

Q: Why 50,000 Notes at 1BTC each?
A: Sort of an arbitrary number I suppose, but I knew that I wanted more than enough funds by the end of the sale to cover all costs. Not to mention I like working with Integers, so 1BTC each kept things steady.

Q: $150,000 in ASIC assets is quite substantial. How will you secure it?
A: One of the perks of working as a SysAdmin is getting to know people who work in datacenters. The equipment would be run and stored in the center for a monthly price (to be determined, since I'm still shopping around). Under most datacenters, equipment is insured against theft, fires, floods, and/or any other destruction. If anything happens, the insurance would cover the cost of replacing the equipment.

Q: So for each 1BTC I invest, what sort of return am I looking at?
A: That all depends if your Notes are bought back 100% before the initial Buyback period, or if you make it all the way to December 31st, 2013.
Minimum: You’re looking at Five [5] months of 1% coupon earnings before the Initial Buyback, plus the 1.10BTC March buyback. So that would leave you a return of 15% (1.15BTC on a 1BTC investment…remember, this isn’t compounding so the math is pretty straightforward).
Maximum: For a 15 month holding, you will have received Five [5] months of 1% coupons, Seven [7] months of 2% coupons, Two [2] months of 4% coupons, One [1] month of 6% coupons, and a final buyback of 1.20BTC. This would mean a 53% return, or 1.53BTC per 1BTC invested.
Average: For the average investor, you have a 50% chance of making between the minimum (15%) and 19% (by April 2013 or so 30,155BTCs will be bought back out of the 50,000), which is still relatively substantial. The largest investors will undoubted last the longest.

It is key to remember, however, that this is all calculated under the best circumstances. If Butterfly Labs isn’t able to deliver their products (or is substantially late like the FPGAs), then I will modify the Buyback timeframe to reflect such instances. The same goes for Coupon Rates and actual hashing rates. If the difficulty absolutely skyrockets past even my predicted ‘worst case scenario’, then the Coupon Rate and Buyback costs will reflect as much.

I will work my financials to ensure that both my investors and I are in a mutual ‘win-win’ situation. The object is for everyone to make money, especially those who invested with me. I strive to take care of them first.

Q: How can I contact you with questions?
A:  Either via my email [ASICInvestments@gmail.com], through the forum PM system, or directly on this thread.

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September 23, 2012, 03:45:03 PM
Last edit: October 17, 2012, 11:46:14 PM by Korbman
 #4

[Reserved - Future Company Documentation, Links]

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September 24, 2012, 02:46:23 PM
Last edit: October 17, 2012, 11:46:25 PM by Korbman
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September 30, 2012, 09:28:34 PM
Last edit: October 21, 2012, 06:09:36 PM by Korbman
 #6

[Reserved - Updates]


UPDATES
September 30th, 2012
  • As a result of the new BFL product specs, 5 Rigs comes out to a nice 7.5TH/s. Company financial information has been updated with the latest data and proves to be quite a bit more profitable than previously predicted. If the products are proven to work as currently shown, this will lead to increased Coupon Rates and Buybacks over the Hashing period.
  • Current contract and details will be modified with the latest BFL information after being approved by Nefario and launched (I'm not trying to confuse people with a variety of different documents). Updates will be marked clearly so the community knows what was changed.
  • Awaiting a reply from Nefario on the status of the IPO. Last we talked, the current details and contract (noted above) were being submitted to the board for review. If all goes well, I'll update here!
END


October 6th, 2012
With the news of GLBSE's insolvency due to severe mismanagement and legal implications, I will be looking to move my IPO to a new exchange. There are a number of possibilities, but the top two choices thus far are MPEx and #Assets-OTC (both of which I'm signed up for).
I am, however, hoping a number developers and investors work with Burnsides to create a "BTC-Global" exchange to mimic the current "LTC-Global" litecoin exchange. The code seems solid, and it's a lot easier to navigate and work with compared to MPEx.

Also, I revised the title to get rid of that disgusting [GLBSE] tag...makes me sick Tongue

I will make a note in this thread's comments section asking for suggestions.
END


October 15th, 2012
  • Completely overhauled my fund. Updated original fund details, contract, and more QA info, as well as introductory paragraph.
  • Currently creating four [4] formal documents for use with the fund and my company. These documents include a formally constructed Business Plan, General Agreement Contract, Letter of Intent, and Secured Promissory Note (which details the fund Notes themselves). I'll update the "Company Docs" section with Google Docs links when all are completed.
  • Looking for a promissing Exchange people would be willing to go to for investments. MPEx seems out of the question, given the sketchy website and high costs associated with starting up. Currently looking into Cryptostocks and Havelock Investments. Community input is appreciated.
END


October 21th, 2012
New thread created to represent the company and Fund! -- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119628.0

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October 01, 2012, 03:31:32 AM
 #7

Im glad these are more like traditional bonds not tied to mh/s which constantly drops. Good luck.  Smiley

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October 02, 2012, 02:58:03 PM
Last edit: October 17, 2012, 11:46:43 PM by Korbman
 #8

Im glad these are more like traditional bonds not tied to mh/s which constantly drops. Good luck.  Smiley

Thanks! I'm hoping it's received well compared to other mining bonds because, well, it's an actual bond. It's not for MH/s or GH/s, it's a loan to purchase company equipment. Smiley

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October 02, 2012, 03:13:08 PM
 #9

Hey Korb, what about the exchange rate changes?

Will you lower the number of bonds?

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October 02, 2012, 03:43:09 PM
Last edit: October 17, 2012, 11:46:51 PM by Korbman
 #10

Hey Korb, what about the exchange rate changes?

Will you lower the number of bonds?

Actually, exchange rates don't really need to factor into this because everything can be done in Bitcoins, which is the beauty of it. The only thing the exchange rate changes is the price of the Mini Rigs in coins (right now, each is about 2500 BTC, which is a really good deal). Everything mined with the rigs is already in BTC, and is easily transferred back to the investors. Taking the exchanges out of the equation actually eliminates a lot of variance and uncertainty.

As for 50,000 bonds, you're correct in thinking that's quite a bit of capital. If everything works out, I won't need that much by a long shot, which is why I established an 'Early Buyback' clause (I purchase bonds I don't need back before March 2013 at 1.005x the Par [original] Value).

Overall, I've estimated that only about 10% of all bonds would be converted into USD, which would be used for real world transactions to cover storing the Rigs in a datacenter, bandwidth, insurance, and any maintenance. I won't know the final details until a) the IPO passes the GLBSE board, b) I know how many bonds were purchased, and c) I have the rigs ordered.

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October 02, 2012, 04:00:14 PM
 #11

Actually, exchange rates don't really need to factor into this because everything can be done in Bitcoins, which is the beauty of it. The only thing the exchange rate changes is the price of the Mini Rigs in coins (right now, each is about 2500 BTC, which is a really good deal). Everything mined with the rigs is already in BTC, and is easily transferred back to the investors. Taking the exchanges out of the equation actually eliminates a lot of variance and uncertainty.

I haven't tried to order mining equipment in BTC but does BFL or other vendors adjust their prices in BTC to match an increasing USD-BTC exchange rate? If they don't do it, they what is the reason to not just exchange the BTCs you get into $$$ and buy with $$$? For the same amount of BTCs you might get 6 rigs instead of 5. I've noticed that your financials list $350,000 as the monetary goal. At the current rate, this goal can be achieved by issuing about 30,000 bonds.

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October 02, 2012, 04:39:17 PM
Last edit: October 17, 2012, 11:46:59 PM by Korbman
 #12

I haven't tried to order mining equipment in BTC but does BFL or other vendors adjust their prices in BTC to match an increasing USD-BTC exchange rate? If they don't do it, they what is the reason to not just exchange the BTCs you get into $$$ and buy with $$$? For the same amount of BTCs you might get 6 rigs instead of 5. I've noticed that your financials list $350,000 as the monetary goal. At the current rate, this goal can be achieved by issuing about 30,000 bonds.

BFL uses BitPay to instantly convert received BTC to USD. So, let's say I want to buy a rig right now with BTCs. Butterfly Labs would redirect me to their BitPay site. At current rates, a rig is $30,247 ($29,899 + $348 s/h). BitPay would charge me 2398.7470 Bitcoins.


BFL doesn't have to deal with BTC at all...they just get the cash from BitPay after converting at current market rates.

To that end, converting back and forth between normal currency and BTC has a number of limitations. Aside from fees (which would add up quite quickly), Mt. Gox has a monthly withdrawal limitation of $50,000 (I'm verified there). Even if I sat on $50k cash, there comes the problem of moving it (which incurs more fees) and is a very very easy way to quickly gather government suspicion.

The ease and simplicity of working solely in BTC makes this venture not only profitable for everyone involved, but a lot less complex as well.

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October 02, 2012, 04:42:45 PM
 #13

BFL uses BitPay to instantly convert received BTC to USD.

Got it. Thanks for the screenshot.

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October 04, 2012, 05:05:34 AM
 #14

Im glad these are more like traditional bonds not tied to mh/s which constantly drops. Good luck.  Smiley

Thanks! I'm hoping it's received well compared to other mining bonds because, well, it's an actual bond. It's not for MH/s or GH/s, it's a loan to purchase company equipment. Smiley

Personally I dont think the "bonds" on glbse should be called that since they lose your principal and are mostly perpetual.

When is the IPO ? Might be a good place to park some excess coin for a few months.

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October 04, 2012, 01:36:21 PM
Last edit: October 17, 2012, 11:47:48 PM by Korbman
 #15

Personally I dont think the "bonds" on glbse should be called that since they lose your principal and are mostly perpetual.

When is the IPO ? Might be a good place to park some excess coin for a few months.

If all went perfectly, the IPO was September 1st (I had everything submitted and paid for during the last week in August). Then Nefario froze all IPOs as they worked on GLBSE, so I reworked everything for October 1st.
In a PM back on Sept. 25th, Nefario noted he would be submitting the contract for review so he could pass the IPO...but no one has heard from him (or ColdHardMetal) since over last week.

I guess at this point it's just "play it by ear" Sad

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October 04, 2012, 01:51:41 PM
 #16

So you want to start an official business (LLC), which means you would have to do accounting in USD?
 (Which regulation would apply for a small business? Cash or accrual accounting / double bookkeeping? )

There has to be a substiantial amount of net equitiy before you can raise USD liquidity through BTC bonds/debt,
because you have to do currency transaction adjustments, to reflect the liabilities in BTC,
which may lead to unforeseen expenses, resulting in a negative net equity?

Precisely, but the business would be (initially) supported by revenue that I've converted from BTC (so about 5,000BTC over 12 months, just as an estimate for now). So out of that revenue each month comes all of my real-world business expenses, such as equipment insurance, office/datacenter rent, electricity, bandwidth, and anything else I can't think of.
The remainder after all this would be taxed as income at either a Single-Member LLC tax rate (essentially the profit is recorded on my personal tax documents and I'm taxed as such), or I can elect to have it taxed as a Corporation (which is more likely, since as an LLC under $50,000 profit my rate would only be 15%).

The tricky part (which I think you touched on) is noting a the depreciation of the mining equipment in USD when it was purchased in BTC. Other than that, as long as I maintain a clear boundary between the BTC world and the USD world, the accounting should be pretty straightforward.

Of course, this is all based on my experience with Financial and Managerial accounting...I'm going to consult with a CPA when this gets off the ground.

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October 04, 2012, 04:54:11 PM
Last edit: October 17, 2012, 11:47:59 PM by Korbman
 #17

Depreciation should be pretty straight forward, because the conversion from BTC to USD is already done, and those assets will be listed with their USD value, (how else would you be able to file your income report for taxation)

The time frame is more interesting. Do you think 3 years will work?

You're exactly right, and I thought about that after my reply but didn't update it. The equipment would be taken at purchased value and probably depreciated at the same rate as normal computer/server hardware.

For the time frame, 12-24 months should be all that's needed. Why come up with 3 years?


Though your liabilities (BONDs) will be in USD too.
I fear the following scenario:

Dec-1st:
Total capital: 30,000 USD
Liabilites through bonds: 2,000 BTC @ 10.00 USD/BTC spotprice = 20,000 USD
Net equity: 10,000 USD

Now lets assume you were able to generate a net income of 1,000 USD for that month (before CTA)
then on Dec-31:
Total capital: 31,000 USD
Now the spotprice has changed and may be 16.00 USD/BTC

Liabilities through bonds: 2,000 BTC @ 16.00 USD/BTC = 32,000 USD
Meaning there would be an additional expense as a currency translation adjustment with 12,000 USD.

Net equity: (1,000) USD

Does GAAP differ here?
Unless bond-holders waive, wouldn't that mean, that the LLC would be insolvent.

What is the main reason for those bonds? Do you want to leverage the shareholders capital, or do you want to offer investors an instrument with garantueed payback?

Unfortunately I'm not entirely sure I'm following here. Are you referring to the revenue converted from BTC to USD, which would technically need to be converted back to BTC at a later date?

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October 04, 2012, 05:03:53 PM
 #18

@moincoin

All the investments are made in BTC, all revenue will come as BTCs, all net profits payments made are in BTC therefore the exchange rate is irrelevant.

However, part of the revenue will have to be converted into USD to cover monthly expenses that can't be paid in BTC. The exchange rate will only play the role of how big that percentage is thus dictating the actual net profit values compared with total revenue.

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October 04, 2012, 09:52:51 PM
Last edit: October 17, 2012, 11:48:15 PM by Korbman
 #19

I thought of three years, because Moore's law until now has been 24 months (number of transistors doubles ~24 months), and this will most likely change to 36 months soon for the most recent technologies.
Due to frequency increases accouring at the same time, computing power roughly has doubled every 18 months.

Bitcoin ASICs are currently based on conservative node sizes, therefore I think we could see a doubling of hashing power every 18 months, for some years at least.
Therefore after 36 months computing power should have quadrupled.

In relation this means, there would be only 25 % of bitcoin production capacity left (if difficulty increases accordingly), compared to the beginning. This will most probably not allow any additional economically reasonable generation of bitcoins, leaving the Hardware worthless as a production asset.

You bring up a good point. Ideally I would participate in BFL's trade-in programs for future generations of ASIC devices (they've already hinted at this) in order to keep up with the change in technology.

Aside from generating blocks, mining equipment generates revenue through network transaction fees. If my plan works out, I would seek to maintain my position as one of the top miners, not only now, but in the future as well. This would mean that even though we'll eventually reach the point where each block generates 0 new coins (or fractions close enough to 0) I should theoretically still be able to turn a profit through network transaction fees only. But this is many years away, so it's 100% speculation at this point.


@bobitza
When you use BTC to balance assets that would make things easier.
Though you may have to do extraordinary depreciation on mining-hardware, when new mining hardware is available for a substiantial lower price e. g. due to USD/BTC price rise.

We want to have accounting in BTC, as BTC are our common value, not USD, not EUR.
But he has to provide accounting in USD for taxation purposes.

Right on track here. Once everything is rolling, there would be two sets of accounting information. One is done 100% in BTC to show revenue generated by the equipment and my expenses paying back bondholders / Coupon Rates. The other done in USD for tax purposes.

You can easily value your assets in USD, but what is with liabilites in BTC
If BTC/USD price jumps you will have to book a massive expense for currency translation adjustments, because you need more USD to pay the bonds back.
This may lead to a insolvency.

If BTC/USD will fall, this should be no problem.
Bonds are now less worth in USD, this will give you a revenue from currency translation adjustments.

Currency translation adjustments on mining revenue shouldn't be a problem.

Ah I understand now...and I actually think I mislead you (or any other readers) before when I noted I'd be creating revenue for my company via Bonds. Though this is technically true to begin with, it is far from the 5,000 BTC I estimated for 12 months.

Here's more or less how it would work over 12 months: Out of, say, those "5,000 BTC", 90% (4500) would be generated from mining and converted to USD. The remaining 10% (500) comes from the Bonds at the very beginning to get everything started (initial payments to datacenter, office rent, etc etc). Those 500 coins are currently backed 100% by me, so should anything happen I can cover the Bondholders. This helps to limit liability and avoid issues with the exchange rate. Naturally, this is just a guess as to what I'll need. The numbers I chose where just for an easy example.

Doing this stuff is passion of mine, so I'd hate to see it go insolvent Cheesy

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October 07, 2012, 02:27:50 AM
 #20

Just posted an update to my thread, noting:
Quote
October 6th, 2012
With the news of GLBSE's insolvency due to severe mismanagement and legal implications, I will be looking to move my IPO to a new exchange. There are a number of possibilities, but the top two choices thus far are MPEx and #Assets-OTC (both of which I'm signed up for).
I am, however, hoping a number developers and investors work with Burnsides to create a "BTC-Global" exchange to mimic the current "LTC-Global" litecoin exchange. The code seems solid, and it's a lot easier to navigate and work with compared to MPEx.

I will update this thread's comments asking for suggestions.
END


Obviously this has been the shittiest news I've heard all week, but instead of dwelling on it and screaming at Nefario for being an asshole and terrible businessman, I'm looking to make progress...or at least create a plan of sorts.

I'm looking from input from users and potential investors: Are there any security exchanges you feel comfortable investing on?

I'm not too keen on MPEx, but if it'll help this get off the ground and gather momentum then I'll do what I can.

I've also setup myself on #Assets-OTC. There isn't any trading, which would mean you could "buy shares" via #Bitcoin-OTC instead. Through this method, however, I could much more easily account for bondholders since I'd have their username, bitcoin address, email (if provided), and number of Bonds purchased. The problem here, unfortunately, is generating investors.

Other than that, I'm giving my full support to Burnsides to create a BTC alternative to his Litecoin securities exchange. Hopefully something will come of that!

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