What about those bitcoins that are LOST?

[Jhacker]

The question I have is if it is completely reasonable for BTC to reach $1 million (and I believe it is), why is the price so low? Banks, institutions, investors, hedge funds, venture capital, etc. should be buying up BTC like there's no tomorrow. I guess they just think it's still too risky? But plenty of businesses are already accepting and using BTC. We are long past proof of concept. The only possible tweaks that still need to occur are in security (exchanges & business, not the network itself) and ease of use.

My guess would be that your theory is spot on. We talk about super high values for bitcoin, but banks and hedge funds are very rational actors and are far more interested in a sure fire 2% bond than an extremely risky unknown currency asset. As much as I believe in bitcoin I would not vote to include it in a managed portfolio if I were on the board. Perhaps I could be convinced to go 0.1%, but anything else could be argued to be a failure of fiduciary responsibility. If it tanks, the whole board could be sued for this.

Hmm... you'd think though that some of the less risk averse guys like VCs or say a Donald Trump would see an obvious opportunity here. Buy  up a substantial amount of bitcoins - say 4 million, which is a fifth of the total. It would cost Trump $1 billion out of his $10 billion. As long as bitcoin continues to be adopted, this will eventually be worth an astronomical amount. Huge risk, huge reward, but you'd think there would be some bored billionaires out there who would be VERY interested.

[1714514453]

1714514453

[1714514453]

1714514453

[b-trading]

And I mean really, really lost.
A lot of people can't remember their passwords after 4 minutes since they set it up.
But apart this, there's several ways bitcoins can get lost, like in example if you have a wallet on a USB key and this breaks and you have no cold backup.

This will inevitably bring, in the future, to less than those 21 million cap.
And they WILL keep going down.

Is there a plan to reintegrate them?

you need not worry about the future when the 21 million cap is reached because it is far far away.

also the price of bitcoin will determine whether the amount of available bitcoin is enough or not, besides there is not just 21 mil BTC there is much more because you have to consider every digit after the point too. i mean 1 satoshi (1e-8BTC) is usable and have value.

additionally 1 satoshi can be broken down into smaller units if needs be, with a simple change in the code.

If 1 satoshi can be broke  down, my question is how many the maximum it can be broken, what i mean is how many the maximum digit of the point behind 1 satoshi if we really need to do that ( adding digit point)

[dodgecharger]

it seems to be a very difficult thing to verify/determine with certainty. Because Bitcoin is divisible into much smaller units, I don't think that "lost Bitcoin" will really be at the forefront of Bitcoin-related issues any time soon.

[bitllionaire]

it seems to be a very difficult thing to verify/determine with certainty. Because Bitcoin is divisible into much smaller units, I don't think that "lost Bitcoin" will really be at the forefront of Bitcoin-related issues any time soon.

Only way to determine it,it's by means of news or reports from people who lost it

[CoinCidental]

it seems to be a very difficult thing to verify/determine with certainty. Because Bitcoin is divisible into much smaller units, I don't think that "lost Bitcoin" will really be at the forefront of Bitcoin-related issues any time soon.

Only way to determine it,it's by means of news or reports from people who lost it

When I found out about BTC a few years ago I started buying Because I knew the potential as soon as I saw it

I told a few friends about it and a couple of them bought a few, they lost Interst in it and didn't bother to keep their wallets safe or backed up

They didn't have much but those few  BTC are surely lost because there is no copy of the wallet file and they don't know the password either so even if they had it they couldn't use the coins - double fucked for lack of a better word

They had to watch the epic rise to $1200+ knowing they had coins that cost between $6-10.....im sure there have been much larger losses and thefts but these are just a couple I know personally

[pooya87]

And I mean really, really lost.
A lot of people can't remember their passwords after 4 minutes since they set it up.
But apart this, there's several ways bitcoins can get lost, like in example if you have a wallet on a USB key and this breaks and you have no cold backup.

This will inevitably bring, in the future, to less than those 21 million cap.
And they WILL keep going down.

Is there a plan to reintegrate them?

you need not worry about the future when the 21 million cap is reached because it is far far away.

also the price of bitcoin will determine whether the amount of available bitcoin is enough or not, besides there is not just 21 mil BTC there is much more because you have to consider every digit after the point too. i mean 1 satoshi (1e-8BTC) is usable and have value.

additionally 1 satoshi can be broken down into smaller units if needs be, with a simple change in the code.

If 1 satoshi can be broke  down, my question is how many the maximum it can be broken, what i mean is how many the maximum digit of the point behind 1 satoshi if we really need to do that ( adding digit point)

your question is so technical and i am not exactly an expert in computer language or programming but i think it depends on the variable that you are using , for example decimal can hold 28-29 significant digits with range of (-7.9 x 10^28 to 7.9 x 10^28) / (10^0 to ^28) in c#
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/364x0z75.aspx

but i guess you can deal with any number that requires more digits in a different way like breaking it down into smaller parts and then deal with it.

[zebedee]

i don't know if this is what he meant or even this was in his mind when he posted the top comment but there is an address that only eats bitcoins and in fact destroys them:
https://blockchain.info/address/1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE

this address is without private keys so if you send to that address the coins will be lost forever!

Not true at all.  That address is almost certain, like any address, to have quadrillions upon quadrillions of private keys that can spend from it.

Your problem is to find just one.  Go!

[zebedee]

Exactly the address i was thinking about, thank you Herbert2020 
Now when you say this address has no private keys what do you mean.
Was this address created without private keys? (If even possible)
Or were the private keys just destroyed to this address, if so who did and or approved this?

creating an address with that many custom characters (BitcoinEaterAddressDontSend) is impossible.

So I'm imagining the existence of that address?  Please don't pontificate on things you don't understand.

[smith coins]

If we lost the private key it is near to impossible to bet that will find it in future to try changing the letters.

[jacktheking]

i don't know if this is what he meant or even this was in his mind when he posted the top comment but there is an address that only eats bitcoins and in fact destroys them:
https://blockchain.info/address/1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE

this address is without private keys so if you send to that address the coins will be lost forever!

Not true at all.  That address is almost certain, like any address, to have quadrillions upon quadrillions of private keys that can spend from it.

Your problem is to find just one.  Go!

Yes. It's possible for people to find a private key that is associate with the Bitcoin address (1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE).

Let me try to brute-force the private key using Vanitygen on my ~350 Kkey/s computer..

http://imgs.us/image/sj

Alright. More than ... Human lifetime to get it.

[Bitware]

And I mean really, really lost.
A lot of people can't remember their passwords after 4 minutes since they set it up.
But apart this, there's several ways bitcoins can get lost, like in example if you have a wallet on a USB key and this breaks and you have no cold backup.

This will inevitably bring, in the future, to less than those 21 million cap.
And they WILL keep going down.

Is there a plan to reintegrate them?

Define "really lost".

Prove they are "really lost" coins.

If you can do that, then we can talk about regenerating them.

HINT: No one can prove coins are lost or stolen. All they can do is claim they are lost or stolen.

This is the real world where even the best people lie, cheat and steal.

Forget about the alleged "lost" coins. Worst case scenario is they make the rest of the coins worth more.

[Mickeyb]

Is there a plan to reintegrate them?

No reason to do it.
But majority can change consensus rules any time.

Yes, lost coins are lost coins. Nothing you can do about it. Bitcoin is divisible to 8 places so there is plenty for everyone. Why we wouldn't be talking in satoshis term one day, not in Bitcoin terms. 1 satoshi can be worth $1 and everybody would be happy.

Because of this above, I don't think there will be consensus rules about changing the final supply. I wouldn't like that the total supply changes.

Now what will future bring us, that nobody knows!

[GODLIKE]

And I mean really, really lost.
A lot of people can't remember their passwords after 4 minutes since they set it up.
But apart this, there's several ways bitcoins can get lost, like in example if you have a wallet on a USB key and this breaks and you have no cold backup.

This will inevitably bring, in the future, to less than those 21 million cap.
And they WILL keep going down.

Is there a plan to reintegrate them?

I myself am responsible for atleast 5-10BTC out floating in wallets that are basically unrecoverable, some was just deleting the wallet or throwing out the old computer with BTC wallet that still had some on it (at the time a couple BTC was basically worthless and i didnt see any reason to keep it) another way i lost lil over 2BTC was when i bought some from ATM and had them sent to my phone wallet (which was not backed up) then the phone got left on side of highway while changing a tire since i used my phone for flashlight (those were actually worth keeping) but ya if just me 1 user of BTC has contributed that amount im sure the combined amounts of "lost" BTC will be high and are unrecoverable...

Perfect example of why lost btc should never be replaced, although JLynn171 has unfortunally lost his phone with 2btc on it nobody can prove that someone else didn't pick up the phone and swipe the btc to there own cold wallet.
Sure the coins could be marked but they could move.

What about if in the future somebody will make a service that will couple up a ledger with the Bitcoin ledger, and in the first ledger an IDENTITY is stored: name, sirname, born date, etc, and ONE Bitcoin address, that certifies that THAT PERSON is owner of THAT BITCOIN ADDRESS?
This WILL probably built up on the infrastructure by somebody, I am sure

[GODLIKE]

Is there a plan to reintegrate them?

No reason to do it.
But majority can change consensus rules any time.

Yes, lost coins are lost coins. Nothing you can do about it. Bitcoin is divisible to 8 places so there is plenty for everyone. Why we wouldn't be talking in satoshis term one day, not in Bitcoin terms. 1 satoshi can be worth $1 and everybody would be happy.

I don't think so, and that's exactly why I opened the thread.
If the whole world will ideally begin to use Bitcoins, there won't be enough for everyday use.
1 satoshi will end up worth 100$ or so, and you can't really go shopping with that smallest coin.
I repeat: it's NOT an actual problem, but it MAY become in the future, even more when we consider that with time, Bitcoins are lost inevitably in different ways.
So the count is not even on 21 millions, but less.

[GODLIKE]

And I mean really, really lost.
A lot of people can't remember their passwords after 4 minutes since they set it up.
But apart this, there's several ways bitcoins can get lost, like in example if you have a wallet on a USB key and this breaks and you have no cold backup.

This will inevitably bring, in the future, to less than those 21 million cap.
And they WILL keep going down.

Is there a plan to reintegrate them?

you need not worry about the future when the 21 million cap is reached because it is far far away.

also the price of bitcoin will determine whether the amount of available bitcoin is enough or not, besides there is not just 21 mil BTC there is much more because you have to consider every digit after the point too. i mean 1 satoshi (1e-8BTC) is usable and have value.

additionally 1 satoshi can be broken down into smaller units if needs be, with a simple change in the code.

I agree with this: it's not an actual problem. It may become a problem in the future.
But if what you say is true, that also Satoshis can be divided, then there is no problem at all, I guess.
But I've never read anything about this, are you sure this can be done?

yes i am sure about this.
you can read the bitcoin wiki page for more information on bitcoin divisibility .

in short, bitcoin is has infinite divisibility, which means even if because of massive loss of bitcoin private keys (wallets or whatever) only one bitcoin is left it can be divided into enough parts so that everyone can use it without anything happening to bitcoin

actually your question is answered in much details on bitcoin wiki you can read it there!
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#Won.27t_loss_of_wallets_and_the_finite_amount_of_Bitcoins_create_excessive_deflation.2C_destroying_Bitcoin.3F

the keyword to search is

Code:

bitcoin infinitely divisible

It's interesting... having the chance to add granularity by one zero or two will surely come in handy in the future.

[Mickeyb]

Is there a plan to reintegrate them?

No reason to do it.
But majority can change consensus rules any time.

Yes, lost coins are lost coins. Nothing you can do about it. Bitcoin is divisible to 8 places so there is plenty for everyone. Why we wouldn't be talking in satoshis term one day, not in Bitcoin terms. 1 satoshi can be worth $1 and everybody would be happy.

I don't think so, and that's exactly why I opened the thread.
If the whole world will ideally begin to use Bitcoins, there won't be enough for everyday use.
1 satoshi will end up worth 100$ or so, and you can't really go shopping with that smallest coin.
I repeat: it's NOT an actual problem, but it MAY become in the future, even more when we consider that with time, Bitcoins are lost inevitably in different ways.
So the count is not even on 21 millions, but less.

My friend, let's just hope that we will encounter a problem like this in the future, that's all I can say!

[GODLIKE]

Is there a plan to reintegrate them?

No reason to do it.
But majority can change consensus rules any time.

Yes, lost coins are lost coins. Nothing you can do about it. Bitcoin is divisible to 8 places so there is plenty for everyone. Why we wouldn't be talking in satoshis term one day, not in Bitcoin terms. 1 satoshi can be worth $1 and everybody would be happy.

I don't think so, and that's exactly why I opened the thread.
If the whole world will ideally begin to use Bitcoins, there won't be enough for everyday use.
1 satoshi will end up worth 100$ or so, and you can't really go shopping with that smallest coin.
I repeat: it's NOT an actual problem, but it MAY become in the future, even more when we consider that with time, Bitcoins are lost inevitably in different ways.
So the count is not even on 21 millions, but less.

My friend, let's just hope that we will encounter a problem like this in the future, that's all I can say!

Ye let's hope this and then just add 3 zero at the end, game done!

[Herbert2020]

i don't know if this is what he meant or even this was in his mind when he posted the top comment but there is an address that only eats bitcoins and in fact destroys them:
https://blockchain.info/address/1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE

this address is without private keys so if you send to that address the coins will be lost forever!

Not true at all.  That address is almost certain, like any address, to have quadrillions upon quadrillions of private keys that can spend from it.

Your problem is to find just one.  Go!

how can a bitcoin address have many private keys :O
every bitcoin address has just one private key!!!

Exactly the address i was thinking about, thank you Herbert2020 
Now when you say this address has no private keys what do you mean.
Was this address created without private keys? (If even possible)
Or were the private keys just destroyed to this address, if so who did and or approved this?

creating an address with that many custom characters (BitcoinEaterAddressDontSend) is impossible.

So I'm imagining the existence of that address?  Please don't pontificate on things you don't understand.

you either didn't even read what i wrote higher or don't have any understanding of how bitcoin addresses and private keys are related and how you an create a custom address.

here are some good references to read:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Private_key
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Vanitygen

[misterycoins]

Is there a plan to reintegrate them?

No reason to do it.
But majority can change consensus rules any time.

Yes, lost coins are lost coins. Nothing you can do about it. Bitcoin is divisible to 8 places so there is plenty for everyone. Why we wouldn't be talking in satoshis term one day, not in Bitcoin terms. 1 satoshi can be worth $1 and everybody would be happy.

Because of this above, I don't think there will be consensus rules about changing the final supply. I wouldn't like that the total supply changes.

Now what will future bring us, that nobody knows!

Not outside the capabilities, but the majority of users would never agree to do it, and in order to change the bitcoin protocals, the majority of users (miners actually) have to agree to do it. They would not agree to this.

[amaclin]

how can a bitcoin address have many private keys :O
every bitcoin address has just one private key!!!

No. There are 2²⁵⁶ private keys
And 2¹⁶⁰ addresses (hashes of compressed and uncompressed public keys)
So, there are ~2⁹⁶ private keys for each address