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Author Topic: What's up with the high fees!?  (Read 1376 times)
DooMAD
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July 16, 2015, 07:14:16 AM
 #21

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1125214

The fees will increase until legitimate traffic is less than half the block size.

This is because someone is executing a Golden Ratio Attack.  I have no idea how to stop it. This is serious.

It's probably best not to speak in absolutes until it's confirmed.  For now we should be saying "someone might be executing a Golden Ratio Attack".  I can see how lots of people think this sucks at the moment, but I'm fairly confident this won't be a long-term issue.  We'll find a workable solution in the end.  It just takes a bit of time.
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July 16, 2015, 08:02:21 AM
 #22

until now i wasn't forced to increase any fee, every TX that i've done was confirmed with the standard fee in the classic time range

i think should keep their fee at normal and don't play their game , wait more for your transaction, they will end the spam if their primarily object of forcing you to increase the fee will not work for some time
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July 16, 2015, 12:18:46 PM
 #23

No free lunch. Few seem to want to listen to Gavin's warning about block size. So if blocks can only include some transactions then you are going to have to pay to be one of those included transactions.

Aye, it would appear Gavin's idea is a solid one I just fear the interwebz backbone won't be able to keep up to what is required.

Gavin's idea isn't solid at all. It's not even based on solid research. It certainly doesn't fix potential problems with network spam, because such attacks would still be affordable.

The only thing that will reduce transaction spam is a healthy fee market. Fees should increase exponentially for small transactions with big data sizes. For those fearing of not being able to afford a frappochino: Sidechains will be available for such use cases.

So far the catastrophic scenarios that Gavin and Mike propagated turned out not to be true: Blocks are full now, but Bitcoin continues to work just fine. You just have to pay a little bit higher fees. With optimization on the fee market (higher penalties for smaller/big datasize TX's), the effects would be even smaller.

At some point there will be a blocksize increase, but if the "stress testing" has done anything good, then it's proving that there is no reason to rush this and risk decentralization with an excessive and half-baked "solution".
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July 20, 2015, 01:40:18 PM
 #24

"In order to help withdrawals get processed quickly by the network, the BTC withdrawal fee has been raised from 0.0001 to 0.0005."

I hope they sat it back, now that the spam attack is not running anymore. Roll Eyes

It was really annonying having to guess what fee you need to pay in order to be able to use your bitcoins the way they should work.






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ausbit
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July 20, 2015, 01:45:29 PM
 #25

"In order to help withdrawals get processed quickly by the network, the BTC withdrawal fee has been raised from 0.0001 to 0.0005."

I hope they sat it back, now that the spam attack is not running anymore. Roll Eyes

It was really annonying having to guess what fee you need to pay in order to be able to use your bitcoins the way they should work.
Yep i have to agree. I have done 3 transactions today and all had at least 1 confirmation within 1 or 2min, all these were sent with the standard 0.0001btc fee.
goosoodude
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July 20, 2015, 01:48:33 PM
 #26

until now i wasn't forced to increase any fee, every TX that i've done was confirmed with the standard fee in the classic time range

i think should keep their fee at normal and don't play their game , wait more for your transaction, they will end the spam if their primarily object of forcing you to increase the fee will not work for some time


Did you maybe use the official client, i mean bitcoin-qt? Then you would have paid higher fees than normal because that client is adjusting the fee to the level that is probably needed to get the transaction confirmed.






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Amph
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July 20, 2015, 02:33:47 PM
 #27

until now i wasn't forced to increase any fee, every TX that i've done was confirmed with the standard fee in the classic time range

i think should keep their fee at normal and don't play their game , wait more for your transaction, they will end the spam if their primarily object of forcing you to increase the fee will not work for some time


Did you maybe use the official client, i mean bitcoin-qt? Then you would have paid higher fees than normal because that client is adjusting the fee to the level that is probably needed to get the transaction confirmed.

yeah i'm using core and i customize my fee every time, because if you leave them alone(recommended fees) they will be vastly reduced near 2k satoshi or something

never had any problem with 10k+ satoshi, i was paying 20k in the past but i had not seen any real difference with 10k, so i changed to 10k again
goosoodude
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July 20, 2015, 03:08:27 PM
 #28

No free lunch. Few seem to want to listen to Gavin's warning about block size. So if blocks can only include some transactions then you are going to have to pay to be one of those included transactions.

Aye, it would appear Gavin's idea is a solid one I just fear the interwebz backbone won't be able to keep up to what is required.

Gavin's idea isn't solid at all. It's not even based on solid research. It certainly doesn't fix potential problems with network spam, because such attacks would still be affordable.

The only thing that will reduce transaction spam is a healthy fee market. Fees should increase exponentially for small transactions with big data sizes. For those fearing of not being able to afford a frappochino: Sidechains will be available for such use cases.

So far the catastrophic scenarios that Gavin and Mike propagated turned out not to be true: Blocks are full now, but Bitcoin continues to work just fine. You just have to pay a little bit higher fees. With optimization on the fee market (higher penalties for smaller/big datasize TX's), the effects would be even smaller.

At some point there will be a blocksize increase, but if the "stress testing" has done anything good, then it's proving that there is no reason to rush this and risk decentralization with an excessive and half-baked "solution".

I would not want bitcoin to be a playfield for rich people only. Satoshi wanted people free of banks, that is something bigger.

What i don't understand is why transactions aren't charged per transaction. I mean those are many transactions put into one. Why should they pay less then? I mean if you want to send 100 letters by mail then you can put it into a big package and send it cheaper. But you can't reach different receivers with that. Oo






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fox19891989
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July 20, 2015, 03:09:40 PM
 #29

What's up with the high fees!?

Many companies are lifting their withdraw fees;
From what I have seen Poloniex raised their fees...

"In order to help withdrawals get processed quickly by the network, the BTC withdrawal fee has been raised from 0.0001 to 0.0005."

What's up with the network? hasn't it been fixed?

Once mining is over, miners will only get the fees. One of the main reasons putting bitcoin ahead of Banks is transactions costs.
So, assuming that once mining is over the fess will be way higher, won't this be the same as Banks?

I also noticed poloniex makes the price higher and it is a double sward cause higher fees reduce spam transactions but can't help with circulation, more expensive fees make less people use bitcoin although 0.0005 fee is already low compared to bank or other similar agents.
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July 20, 2015, 03:10:42 PM
 #30

Higher fees will serve poloniex's clients better, by speeding withdrawals
Agree
On the other hand its main advantage of bitcoin network to keep fees low
Even if they will be 10 times higher it will be still worth to use bitcoin as store of value
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July 20, 2015, 05:13:07 PM
Last edit: July 20, 2015, 05:30:26 PM by rax
 #31

So it begins.

The poorer users will be gradually pushed aside from the blockchain, just as industrial-grade miners have already pushed aside most small-time miners. It's built into the protocol  Smiley
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July 20, 2015, 05:41:31 PM
 #32

Then they will go to another coin just as less wealthy buy silver as gold cost too much, we will see litecoin grow and grow unless something happens and the blocksize is increased.

This approach is not sustainable, when the reward subsidy eventually wanes miners will have to live just on tx fees. And they better be hefty, or else it'll not be profitable to support the network and it will break down. There's no way around this.
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July 20, 2015, 07:10:30 PM
 #33

MellowAds raised their fee to 0.0005 BTC too. That sucks.
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July 20, 2015, 07:21:16 PM
 #34

During the stress test, transactions with 0.0002btc per k fees were confirming just fine. It was delayed a bit but confirmed eventually. Only large transactions with 0.0001btc or lower fees were severely delayed. Business which upped the fee to 0.0005btc are wasting your money, you should email them about lowering to 0.0002btc. I think they are being overly cautious at your expense.
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