Bitcoin Mine opportunity with ultra-cheap electricity

[guytp]

A couple of other questions to save me spending too long Googling on a Sunday evening:

1. Is the structure planned to be a lease/rental on the individual units or full/shared ownership by investors?

2. What's the actual internet connectivity like for business-grade connectivity over there in terms of cost and bandwidth?  If mining doesn't work that may leave some doors open to other uses at least of a South American data centre with those power prices.

3. Do you run your own mining operations through a legal entity or personally?  Are there particular advantages (offsetting costs, etc.) versus disadvantages (more likely govt intervention, etc.) of either structure? 

4. What size would each unit work out at (sqm) for your early-estimated costs?

Thanks

[chiguireitor]

1. Is the structure planned to be a lease/rental on the individual units or full/shared ownership by investors?

Full ownership. Its regulation will be under the horizontal property law on my country.

2. What's the actual internet connectivity like for business-grade connectivity over there in terms of cost and bandwidth?  If mining doesn't work that may leave some doors open to other uses at least of a South American data centre with those power prices.

I haven't yet determined that, but from my business i know a full symmetric 1mbps costs something around 20-30 USD/month.

3. Do you run your own mining operations through a legal entity or personally?  Are there particular advantages (offsetting costs, etc.) versus disadvantages (more likely govt intervention, etc.) of either structure? 

Both. I own a business, and we use bitcoin legally to acquire hardware and services online (VPS, DNS, etc). Also, personally i have several miners, which let me expand businesses. Personally has the advantage of lower taxes, but legal entities have access to better capacities (think MW instead of KW). Govt. intervention is less than one would think (that is, non-existent).

4. What size would each unit work out at (sqm) for your early-estimated costs?

I'm calculating a little bit more than 0,5 SqM/KW. The units will be 20 Sqm with 36 KW each.

[JCarlos]

Mark me as interested. I'll have to do some research on the legalities of it in Venezuela but does sound interesting indeed.

I do worry though what will happen when things collapse. I am going to guess the situation cannot remain the way it is.

[chiguireitor]

I do worry though what will happen when things collapse. I am going to guess the situation cannot remain the way it is.

You would be amazed how hard the electricity can get subsidized just to not assume the political cost of raising prices.

Besides, if electricity would go up 10x, which would be a total social disaster, an S5 would cost 10x 0.89$/month.... still VERY profitable...

I know people that still profit from S3 units here on my country  

[Amph]

i didn't read everything bu in the case you offer an hosting service, how much you will charge in total(fee maintanance and everything else) for hosting a s5, that you already have, in the case that i want only its hashpower, pretty much like a cloud?

[notlist3d]

Do you have the backing to do one as proof of concept?  I think if you could prove concept it's more likely for people to invest and want in.

I think that proof of concept goes a long way as far as getting investors.

[chiguireitor]

i didn't read everything bu in the case you offer an hosting service, how much you will charge in total(fee maintanance and everything else) for hosting a s5, that you already have, in the case that i want only its hashpower, pretty much like a cloud?

No, it isn't a hosting service per-se. Hosting doesn't make sense, because there's no win-win scenario. The "hosting" usually tries to milk the most from the customer, and the customer invests in the hope of the hoster to be honest. Take as an example that i had a gold mine, and i'm mining and profiting for it, but then i would take money from someone else to give them part of my mining efforts. It is obvious that the fee will be proportional to the amount i'm giving to the customer, making the whole scenario worthless.

This idea i got is to help decentralize the network, as people are shutting down their miners from the high cost of electricity everywhere else, more and more the big pools are taking advantage of that. The idea is to let people have a place to put their own miners, and mine wherever they want, and the only service will be maintenance (internet service, electricity, cleaning, handling of the miners, sale of the device at end of life, etc).

Do you have the backing to do one as proof of concept?  I think if you could prove concept it's more likely for people to invest and want in.

I think that proof of concept goes a long way as far as getting investors.

What kind of backing are you thinking of? i got my own mines, which aren't big (yet), but i'm more than willing to let people ask about them and prove the benefits of mining here. I would be doing this project out of pocket if i had the financial backing, but unfortunately good ideas don't usually land on people with deep pockets

[notlist3d]

Do you have the backing to do one as proof of concept?  I think if you could prove concept it's more likely for people to invest and want in.

I think that proof of concept goes a long way as far as getting investors.

What kind of backing are you thinking of? i got my own mines, which aren't big (yet), but i'm more than willing to let people ask about them and prove the benefits of mining here. I would be doing this project out of pocket if i had the financial backing, but unfortunately good ideas don't usually land on people with deep pockets

I was thinking this thread was looking for investors is what I meant by backing.   It sometimes takes money to make money.

I really think you would have to build one of these that you have ideas of having 300 of them.  I think it needs proof and not just on paper.    I could be wrong on this but I think if you did one and proved it investors would be much easier to find.

[Amph]

i didn't read everything bu in the case you offer an hosting service, how much you will charge in total(fee maintanance and everything else) for hosting a s5, that you already have, in the case that i want only its hashpower, pretty much like a cloud?

No, it isn't a hosting service per-se. Hosting doesn't make sense, because there's no win-win scenario. The "hosting" usually tries to milk the most from the customer, and the customer invests in the hope of the hoster to be honest. Take as an example that i had a gold mine, and i'm mining and profiting for it, but then i would take money from someone else to give them part of my mining efforts. It is obvious that the fee will be proportional to the amount i'm giving to the customer, making the whole scenario worthless.

This idea i got is to help decentralize the network, as people are shutting down their miners from the high cost of electricity everywhere else, more and more the big pools are taking advantage of that. The idea is to let people have a place to put their own miners, and mine wherever they want, and the only service will be maintenance (internet service, electricity, cleaning, handling of the miners, sale of the device at end of life, etc).

well it is the same for me, if you buy the HW for the guy and then he pay you or he buy for himself and send to you, which would be a little more troublesome because of the shipment

talking about real number if the hosting isn't expensive in maitanance, it would be interesting, the total cost should not exceed half of the revenue of the miner per day, to have at least the possibility of a roin in 3 months

[chiguireitor]

I was thinking this thread was looking for investors is what I meant by backing.   It sometimes takes money to make money.

I really think you would have to build one of these that you have ideas of having 300 of them.  I think it needs proof and not just on paper.    I could be wrong on this but I think if you did one and proved it investors would be much easier to find.

Indeed... that's why i'm not explicitly looking for investors, instead i'm trying to gauge interest on this kind of endeavors. I have possibilities to create a tiny one without breaking the bank (say, 8 shops), but for the real-deal i'm really short on funds.

well it is the same for me, if you buy the HW for the guy and then he pay you or he buy for himself and send to you, which would be a little more troublesome because of the shipment

talking about real number if the hosting isn't expensive in maitanance, it would be interesting, the total cost should not exceed half of the revenue of the miner per day, to have at least the possibility of a roin in 3 months

Yeah, i've received the same comment as you say that this is "almost" cloud mining. The only difference is that i don't impose hardware, the individual owners are free to run whatever their hearts tell them. That's why central pressurized CO2 fire supresion is a must here Don't want to go *CowboyMiner* on this one.

Also, the hosting maintenance, in this scenario, is less than 0.4 USD/day, so yeah, it lets you break even quickly. However, i think that the cost of each shop will add some 5-6 months to the ROI figure of a full 36KW of S5s, that could pose a problem if the "shop" owner is looking for a quick buck instead of a long term mine.

[kinges]

Hi,

How to cooperate?
Could you give me more details?

Thanks.

[Subw]

If local authorities find out, is it likely the hardware will be confiscated?

That is exactly what would happen once authorities find out what he is doing (stealing government subsidized electricity).

[chiguireitor]

If local authorities find out, is it likely the hardware will be confiscated?

That is exactly what would happen once authorities find out what he is doing (stealing government subsidized electricity).

Better not to especulate over something you don't know about pal.

36Kw "commercial" (read, non-subsidized) meters are usual on the country. In fact, i have my office in a building with 4 36Kw "places" (although my office's one is a 20Kw meter).

The fact that the building idea is to have upfront datacenter focused electricity, and create a development in an area where there are SEVERAL companies doing that already should hint that this is, by far, not illegal.

The electricity here is substantially cheaper than anywhere else because 80% of it comes from hydroelectric generators on the Guri Dam. The rest comes from excess production of either oil or gas. Also, there are parts of the country already with wind and solar, namely the Falcon State, so there's that too.

[mookid]

Así que básicamente ofreces una especie de "centro comercial" donde las tiendas están diseñadas para comodar hardware de minado? Planeas ofrecer o alquilar los mineros? o cada quien se encarga de buscarlos?

[gallery2000]

If local authorities find out, is it likely the hardware will be confiscated?

That is exactly what would happen once authorities find out what he is doing (stealing government subsidized electricity).

Better not to especulate over something you don't know about pal.

36Kw "commercial" (read, non-subsidized) meters are usual on the country. In fact, i have my office in a building with 4 36Kw "places" (although my office's one is a 20Kw meter).

The fact that the building idea is to have upfront datacenter focused electricity, and create a development in an area where there are SEVERAL companies doing that already should hint that this is, by far, not illegal.

The electricity here is substantially cheaper than anywhere else because 80% of it comes from hydroelectric generators on the Guri Dam. The rest comes from excess production of either oil or gas. Also, there are parts of the country already with wind and solar, namely the Falcon State, so there's that too.

I would like to move to VE and retire there.  Is that possible?

[chiguireitor]

Así que básicamente ofreces una especie de "centro comercial" donde las tiendas están diseñadas para comodar hardware de minado? Planeas ofrecer o alquilar los mineros? o cada quien se encarga de buscarlos?

Recuerda que no estamos en la sección en español del foro, usar un idioma diferente al inglés en esta sección es mala práctica

Yes, it works kinda like a mall, but has WAY more facilities targetted to miners. There won't be (at least initially) leased/sold hardware, just space. There will be personell dedicated to handling shipments and accomodating hardware on the "shops", that would be part of the monthly cost.

I would like to move to VE and retire there.  Is that possible?

Several people take that decision, even at official rate of SIMADI (200 VEF/USD) 1000 USD would give you almost a year of living above the average.

[cryptokc]

my concern would be the regulation in Venezuela.  I believe the state has quite significant powers over nationalisation of assets that become either very productive or in any way could be considered at odds with authorities. 

You are right to be concerned as should anyone else thinking of starting a business or putting their assets in Venezuela!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-30/venezuela-seizes-nestle-polar-warehouse-as-food-shortages-mount

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-venezuela-troops-occupy-polar-food-distribution-warehouses-2015-7

[chiguireitor]

my concern would be the regulation in Venezuela.  I believe the state has quite significant powers over nationalisation of assets that become either very productive or in any way could be considered at odds with authorities. 

You are right to be concerned as should anyone else thinking of starting a business or putting their assets in Venezuela!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-30/venezuela-seizes-nestle-polar-warehouse-as-food-shortages-mount

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-venezuela-troops-occupy-polar-food-distribution-warehouses-2015-7

Don't sensationalize that... you don't see seizing of IBMs ultra big datacenter, or Clover's data warehouse, or Dayco's datacenter.

Tech companies are not publically hated as much as things poor people use to fill their bellies.

Also, if you don't live here, don't believe anything you see on the news. That seizing is just pawns being moved for media noise.

[mookid]

Have you tried to promote your idea on Bitcoin Venezuela? Or are you trying to keep this low profile for the moment?

[WalkerIVIV]

thats quite interesting I'll take a look into it
:-)