I'm joining the fun!

[Brunic]

Hi guys!



I just wanted to share my achievement of hashing around 5% of the Litecoin network as of today. 

The screenshot is not completely up to date, I'm around 14500 Khash with average optimization. I think I could attain 17000 khash soon.

Well, this topic is not only about how awesome I am.  I also want to say that I endorse publicly what Litecoin is trying to achieve and I hope, with the ASIC debacle coming in the next months, that Litecoin will attract the GPU miners left behind. A currency needs people to have value, and the more it is distributed in people's pockets, the bigger it has value.

I think many underestimate the faster transactions that Litecoin brings. At the moment, it's not that useful, I agree. But with every technological evolution, people want technology that go faster. Faster transportation, faster calculation, faster execution, etc. It's going to take a long time before BTC has a problem of slow transaction, but it could become one, especially with faster options around it.

Also, in less than a year, Litecoin became an interesting alternative for miners. It's a nice accomplishment considering the quantity of alt-currencies that have been launched in the last year. It's now strongly positioned for GPU miners that don't want to simply sell their equipment.

The development team is smaller, but they can be trusted. coblee proved his awesome integrity to me 1 month ago, and I wanted to find a way to return the favor. There's a lot of bigger miners than me, and I hope I can influence them somehow to send a couple of khash toward Litecoin in the next months.

Some FUDers will say that going to Litecoin is a way to divide people, I would say that it proves the concept of crypto-currency. Seeing Litecoin growing next to Bitcoin will show that Bitcoin is not a one-hit wonder, and that decentralized currencies can work.

[Jutarul]

Since you seem to be an advocate of litecoin: please enlighten me.

In what way does litecoin bring innovation towards the cryptocurrency ecosystem?

Faster transactions? Doesn't mean anything if the associated risk for double spending is not reduced... (faster block generation does not reduce the risk of double spends)
Different Hashing algorithm? Doesn't protect you from 51% attacks...

litecoin was created at a time when everybody tried to pump&dump without effort.

[smoothie]

Since you seem to be an advocate of litecoin: please enlighten me.

In what way does litecoin bring innovation towards the cryptocurrency ecosystem?

Faster transactions? Doesn't mean anything if the associated risk for double spending is not reduced... (faster block generation does not reduce the risk of double spends)
Different Hashing algorithm? Doesn't protect you from 51% attacks...

litecoin was created at a time when everybody tried to pump&dump without effort.

It's an alternative to bitcoin. Simply put.

Examples: Pepsi and Coke.

Ford and Honda

McDonalds and Burger King.

[Jutarul]

Since you seem to be an advocate of litecoin: please enlighten me.

In what way does litecoin bring innovation towards the cryptocurrency ecosystem?

Faster transactions? Doesn't mean anything if the associated risk for double spending is not reduced... (faster block generation does not reduce the risk of double spends)
Different Hashing algorithm? Doesn't protect you from 51% attacks...

litecoin was created at a time when everybody tried to pump&dump without effort.

It's an alternative to bitcoin. Simply put.

Examples: Pepsi and Coke.

Ford and Honda

McDonalds and Burger King.

Illusion of choice is not innovation. It more falls into the category of knock-offs.

[smoothie]

Since you seem to be an advocate of litecoin: please enlighten me.

In what way does litecoin bring innovation towards the cryptocurrency ecosystem?

Faster transactions? Doesn't mean anything if the associated risk for double spending is not reduced... (faster block generation does not reduce the risk of double spends)
Different Hashing algorithm? Doesn't protect you from 51% attacks...

litecoin was created at a time when everybody tried to pump&dump without effort.

It's an alternative to bitcoin. Simply put.

Examples: Pepsi and Coke.

Ford and Honda

McDonalds and Burger King.

Illusion of choice is not innovation. It more falls into the category of knock-offs.

Right...Pepsi took the same product and changed a few things.

Same with McDonalds. Oh wow some burgers have onions and some don't.

I think you are blinded by the fact that innovation isn't always what drives something to be accepted as a MEDIUM OF EXCHANGE.

Silver coins back in the old days changed the surface design. They didnt need to invent another precious metal in order for their silver/gold coins to be accepted as a medium of exchange. The free markets dont care about innovation. If people agree that something has value, who the fuck cares how innovative it is?

EDIT: Don't buy or use litecoins if that is your view. Just use bitcoins. Go choose. Be part of the free market that you choose to be a part of. No one will care if you don't use litecoins. I certainly don't.

[Liquid]

Litecoins are the way to go 

What pool is that ?

[Brunic]

Since you seem to be an advocate of litecoin: please enlighten me.

In what way does litecoin bring innovation towards the cryptocurrency ecosystem?

Faster transactions? Doesn't mean anything if the associated risk for double spending is not reduced... (faster block generation does not reduce the risk of double spends)
Different Hashing algorithm? Doesn't protect you from 51% attacks...

litecoin was created at a time when everybody tried to pump&dump without effort.

Where did I mention innovation? And why innovation is a requirement for making something? If you were forced to use innovation whenever you build something, China would be the poorest country of the world.

The game-changing innovation has already been done with the birth of Bitcoin. You cannot create a disruptive technology every time something is made. Many things are born by increment or by moving sideways. I see Litecoin as a sideway move for crypto-currency. It's Bitcoin with different parameters, who could give a different outcome.

Faster transactions are worth almost nothing right now, because there's no need for faster right now. But with new network technologies, where some business are making new transmission methods and considering the network could evolve to become a lot more faster and where blocks are propagated in 0.002 seconds, maybe waiting 10 minutes for a block would be irrelevant where 1 minute is enough. Everything is possible.

The different hashing algorithm right now is giving to GPU miners like me an alternative to "hey, ASIC are coming, sell your stuff". The different hashing algorithm currently represent 25 000$/year for my equipment. There's a ton of GPU out there, and releasing ASIC are not going to make those GPU disappear. They are going to be used for another purpose, and mining Litecoin is simply a purpose more lucrative than gaming. The market has currently thousands of parts made for cheap calculation, and they're going to be available really soon. Litecoin could certainly profit heavily from that. All this because of: different hashing algorithm.

[Brunic]

Litecoins are the way to go 

What pool is that ?

Pool-X:  http://pool-x.eu/

Because of me, it's now the biggest Litecoin pool out there 

But I'm mainly using it for testing purpose right now because it's easier to detect problems. I'm probably going to solo mine in a couple of days, when my system is ready.

[Jutarul]

Since you seem to be an advocate of litecoin: please enlighten me.
In what way does litecoin bring innovation towards the cryptocurrency ecosystem?

Where did I mention innovation? And why innovation is a requirement for making something? If you were forced to use innovation whenever you build something, China would be the poorest country of the world.

touché

Faster transactions are worth almost nothing right now, because there's no need for faster right now. But with new network technologies, where some business are making new transmission methods and considering the network could evolve to become a lot more faster and where blocks are propagated in 0.002 seconds, maybe waiting 10 minutes for a block would be irrelevant where 1 minute is enough. Everything is possible.

That will result in a myriad of forks. The main requirement of any decentralized system which has to establish consensus is that:
time for information progression << time for generating new information
Otherwise you risk symmetry breaking. E.g. if you generate a block every 10 seconds and it takes 100 seconds for the system to equilibrate, you may have solved 4-5 blocks before you get corrected by the network. And in the worst case the whole network splits due to maturity criteria and you get two realities for the block chain and only one can be true. Someone can exploit that by using the same coins in two environments which are topographically apart (network connectivity speaking...)

The different hashing algorithm right now is giving to GPU miners like me an alternative to "hey, ASIC are coming, sell your stuff". The different hashing algorithm currently represent 25 000$/year for my equipment. There's a ton of GPU out there, and releasing ASIC are not going to make those GPU disappear. They are going to be used for another purpose, and mining Litecoin is simply a purpose more lucrative than gaming. The market has currently thousands of parts made for cheap calculation, and they're going to be available really soon. Litecoin could certainly profit heavily from that. All this because of: different hashing algorithm.

So you're making an economical argument: Litecoin allows bitcoin miners to use their old hardware which (hopefully) paid for itself. (However, GPU may be the last device which can be used by both networks). While this statement is true, it misses the point of the valuation of a commodity: It needs to justify existence by showing utility (in the long run). Valid selling points are:
- lower transaction fees (lower cost of use)
- more or equal acceptance in specific environments (fungibility)
- different resilience to attacks (risk of outage)
- incentive system for maintaining source code and software infrastructure (sustainability)

going back to the china argument, yes china is successful, but they score in utility: lower cost of production
And I admit that the assertion that litecoin needs to innovate is not necessarily true. However, I wonder why someone would want to acquire a cryptocurrency which does not improve anything and instead has a higher risk of vanishing from the face of the earth?

[Brunic]

That will result in a myriad of forks. The main requirement of any decentralized system which has to establish consensus is that:
time for information progression << time for generating new information
Otherwise you risk symmetry breaking. E.g. if you generate a block every 10 seconds and it takes 100 seconds for the system to equilibrate, you may have solved 4-5 blocks before you get corrected by the network. And in the worst case the whole network splits due to maturity criteria and you get two realities for the block chain and only one can be true. Someone can exploit that by using the same coins in two environments which are topographically apart (network connectivity speaking...)

Yeah, right now, I agree with that. But technology will evolve and communication systems will be become faster and better. It's possible that, in 20 years from now, the whole system needs 2 ms to equilibrate, and having 10 minutes blocks instead of 2.5 will become useless. It's really hypothetical though, so there's not a lot to argue.

So you're making an economical argument: Litecoin allows bitcoin miners to use their old hardware which (hopefully) paid for itself. (However, GPU may be the last device which can be used by both networks). While this statement is true, it misses the point of the valuation of a commodity: It needs to justify existence by showing utility (in the long run). Valid selling points are:
- lower transaction fees (lower cost of use)
- more or equal acceptance in specific environments (fungibility)
- different resilience to attacks (risk of outage)
- incentive system for maintaining source code and software infrastructure (sustainability)

going back to the china argument, yes china is successful, but they score in utility: lower cost of production
And I admit that the assertion that litecoin needs to innovate is not necessarily true. However, I wonder why someone would want to acquire a cryptocurrency which does not improve anything and instead has a higher risk of vanishing from the face of the earth?

The economical argument is a part of it. Another part of why people want to acquire Litecoin is with the potential of it, like people are doing with Bitcoin. Bitcoin is far from being mature, but people are already buying it at a high price. We're only scratching the surface here, there's so much lying under and so much to try, I don't want to dismiss possibilities. As of today, I'm now using two different blockchains for my transactions, the Bitcoin blockchain and the Litecoin blockchain. What can we do with two well-supported blockchains? Can we jump from one to another for privacy purposes? Can we use one of them to back the value of the other? In the case of a 51% attack, can the other blockchain serve as an insurance for the economic value of crypto-currencies?

I'm not an economic specialist, but Bitcoin has always been alone. Now, we have the possibility of having a similar blockchain to it. I'm pretty sure we can find a use to this relation between them. Consider the quantity of different fiat currency or the different precious metal available, I don't see why we should be stuck to only one crypto-currency.

Yeah, the market is still small, but you need to have opportunities to see it grow. You can't have a Bitcoin market if Bitcoin isn't made, like you can't have a Litecoin market if you don't make Litecoin first. And anyway, the markets have already priced the value of the two currencies. Don't wonder why Bitcoin is around 12$ while Litecoin is at 0.04$. People prefer Bitcoin and the price reflect that.

Anyway, in the next months, we'll see how it goes. GPU miners are not going to disappear from the surface of the planet and the chances that they go for Litecoin (like I did) exists. When they're going to have their pockets full of Litecoin...well, that's what I call an opportunity.

*EDIT*
The more I think about it, the more I wonder. How can you track somebody who trades between the blockchains? If you send 10 BTC for 1000 LTC to somebody else....how the hell are you supposed to match the transactions? I mean, if I want to launder 10 BTC, I send them to Litedude. Litedude sends me 1000 LTC for it. My 10 BTC transaction is written in the BTC blockchain, and the 1000 LTC transaction is written in the LTC blockchain. I send my 1000 LTC to Bitdude in exchange for a fresh 10 BTC in a new wallet address. Somebody who follow me on the blockchain will think that I have 10 BTC less, but I still have it in another address. And transactions on the BTC blockchain are not executed at the same time as transactions on the LTC blockchain, matching BTC and LTC transactions would be a hell of a job. Especially since you can delay them as you wish.

[smoothie]

Since you seem to be an advocate of litecoin: please enlighten me.
In what way does litecoin bring innovation towards the cryptocurrency ecosystem?

Where did I mention innovation? And why innovation is a requirement for making something? If you were forced to use innovation whenever you build something, China would be the poorest country of the world.

touché

Faster transactions are worth almost nothing right now, because there's no need for faster right now. But with new network technologies, where some business are making new transmission methods and considering the network could evolve to become a lot more faster and where blocks are propagated in 0.002 seconds, maybe waiting 10 minutes for a block would be irrelevant where 1 minute is enough. Everything is possible.

That will result in a myriad of forks. The main requirement of any decentralized system which has to establish consensus is that:
time for information progression << time for generating new information
Otherwise you risk symmetry breaking. E.g. if you generate a block every 10 seconds and it takes 100 seconds for the system to equilibrate, you may have solved 4-5 blocks before you get corrected by the network. And in the worst case the whole network splits due to maturity criteria and you get two realities for the block chain and only one can be true. Someone can exploit that by using the same coins in two environments which are topographically apart (network connectivity speaking...)

The different hashing algorithm right now is giving to GPU miners like me an alternative to "hey, ASIC are coming, sell your stuff". The different hashing algorithm currently represent 25 000$/year for my equipment. There's a ton of GPU out there, and releasing ASIC are not going to make those GPU disappear. They are going to be used for another purpose, and mining Litecoin is simply a purpose more lucrative than gaming. The market has currently thousands of parts made for cheap calculation, and they're going to be available really soon. Litecoin could certainly profit heavily from that. All this because of: different hashing algorithm.

So you're making an economical argument: Litecoin allows bitcoin miners to use their old hardware which (hopefully) paid for itself. (However, GPU may be the last device which can be used by both networks). While this statement is true, it misses the point of the valuation of a commodity: It needs to justify existence by showing utility (in the long run). Valid selling points are:
- lower transaction fees (lower cost of use)
- more or equal acceptance in specific environments (fungibility)
- different resilience to attacks (risk of outage)
- incentive system for maintaining source code and software infrastructure (sustainability)

going back to the china argument, yes china is successful, but they score in utility: lower cost of production
And I admit that the assertion that litecoin needs to innovate is not necessarily true. However, I wonder why someone would want to acquire a cryptocurrency which does not improve anything and instead has a higher risk of vanishing from the face of the earth?

It is speculation and risk. Just as bitcoin was and still is speculative. If people choose to risk then so be it. Stop questioning it. What do YOU choose? Stop worrying about everyone else's decision and make up your own mind.

Also good job not replying to my previous post. It shows how much you had to retort on the fact that innovation has nothing to do with free markets choosing a medium of exchange.

[live627]

OP: 17 MH/s is A LOT - care to share your seekrit?

[Brunic]

OP: 17 MH/s is A LOT - care to share your seekrit?

Canada has a lot of space with big houses and a climate illness called winter half of the year. The rigs were bought for making money AND heating my house   

[live627]

Where I live, the climate also has an illness... Summer.

[Jutarul]

Also good job not replying to my previous post. It shows how much you had to retort on the fact that innovation has nothing to do with free markets choosing a medium of exchange.

Sorry if I offended you by not directly replying to your post. I agree with the general assessment that innovation in not a REQUIREMENT to be successful. The more an economy is governed by emotions instead of rational criteria, the more important BRANDING becomes. That's what you were quoting earlier... examples for substitutes... Hence I presume that your speculation is based on the assumption that cryptocurrency is yet another economy where branding is important.

So, let me ask you a simple question: Which is more fitting to cryptocurrency?
a) Pepsi vs Coke?
b) BP gasoline vs Shell gasoline?

[tacotime]

OP: 17 MH/s is A LOT - care to share your seekrit?

Canada has a lot of space with big houses and a climate illness called winter half of the year. The rigs were bought for making money AND heating my house   

I have my miner out in a shed in Alberta.  I've already seen my cards mine in the mid 40s, I expect when it gets really cold here I will see temps below 0C.

[smoothie]

Also good job not replying to my previous post. It shows how much you had to retort on the fact that innovation has nothing to do with free markets choosing a medium of exchange.

Sorry if I offended you by not directly replying to your post. I agree with the general assessment that innovation in not a REQUIREMENT to be successful. The more an economy is governed by emotions instead of rational criteria, the more important BRANDING becomes. That's what you were quoting earlier... examples for substitutes... Hence I presume that your speculation is based on the assumption that cryptocurrency is yet another economy where branding is important.

So, let me ask you a simple question: Which is more fitting to cryptocurrency?
a) Pepsi vs Coke?
b) BP gasoline vs Shell gasoline?

Where did I show that I was offended? Good job once again making up assumptions of how I perceived your lack to respond.

Concerning your question....

[Jutarul]

Also good job not replying to my previous post. ...

Sorry if I offended you by not directly replying to your post. ...

Where did I show that I was offended? Good job once again making up assumptions of how I perceived your lack to respond.

Concerning your question....

Some would interpret that as sarcastic. I did.

[smoothie]

Also good job not replying to my previous post. ...

Sorry if I offended you by not directly replying to your post. ...

Where did I show that I was offended? Good job once again making up assumptions of how I perceived your lack to respond.

Concerning your question....

Some would interpret that as sarcastic. I did.

Oh really? No one would have ever thought I was being sarcastic. LOL!

[markm]

The gasoline brands analogy is interesting. Why indeed should I care which of the many cryptocurrencies a shop is willing to accept for a nice pair of alpaca socks as long as it happens to be one that I have enough of in my wallet?

If it happens to be an Ixcoin-only shop and I have no Ixcoins hopefully I can easily trade some other coin for Ixcoin, maybe even the payment provider will handle that for the merchant, taking whatever I like to pay with and giving the merchant his Ixcoins. Why should I care as long as something I have some of will buy those socks?

-MarkM-