[WTB] Casascius Coins

[Blazed]

Looking for the following Casascius items. I am willing to buy them via BTC, Cash, or Trade (Other Cas Items)

I do not care about condition or grades - just has to have intact holograms

5BTC Casascius Coins (S1 or S2)
10BTC Casascius Coins (all silver or with gold BTC)
25BTC Casascius Coins (S1 or S2)
Casascius Bearer Bars - only private key not 2FA

[Possum577]

Oh boy, building a war chest...if only the spotcoins list, the Casascius Coin Analzyer, or Eliot's crypto coin book named owners for these Casascius crown jewels! Although if you knew who to ask you wouldn't have nearly as much fun hunting them all down. When you get your hands on these items will you allow the rest of us to come view them at your virtual Casascius museum?!

Good luck with the hunt!

(Sorry I can't personally play the 'i-have-one-what's-it-worth-to-you-game'...)

[Blazed]

Oh boy, building a war chest...if only the spotcoins list, the Casascius Coin Analzyer, or Eliot's crypto coin book named owners for these Casascius crown jewels! Although if you knew who to ask you wouldn't have nearly as much fun hunting them all down. When you get your hands on these items will you allow the rest of us to come view them at your virtual Casascius museum?!

Good luck with the hunt!

(Sorry I can't personally play the 'i-have-one-what's-it-worth-to-you-game'...)

Well I do not expect to find these very fast since they are harder to locate and all. I do have a pretty decent collection I guess  

[bittawm]

I can get a 10btc gold B locally

except it will cost a premium (without me making anything)

I will however still help get it if you need, think he wants 21BTC

Cheers

[Blazed]

21 is pretty steep for that coin - I know bitmarket.io would sell me one for that price.

[Possum577]

I can get a 10btc gold B locally

except it will cost a premium (without me making anything)

I will however still help get it if you need, think he wants 21BTC

Cheers

2.1x face is in line with valuations for (if not better than) BTC1 coins...and the BTC10 coin is significantly more rare. Is the coin all silver or silver with gold?

[Blazed]

I can get a 10btc gold B locally

except it will cost a premium (without me making anything)

I will however still help get it if you need, think he wants 21BTC

Cheers

2.1x face is in line with valuations for (if not better than) BTC1 coins...and the BTC10 coin is significantly more rare. Is the coin all silver or silver with gold?

2 x 1 is very different than 2 x 10 though... I do not use a formula like that to value coins either.

[ezeminer]

I can get a 10btc gold B locally

except it will cost a premium (without me making anything)

I will however still help get it if you need, think he wants 21BTC

Cheers

2.1x face is in line with valuations for (if not better than) BTC1 coins...and the BTC10 coin is significantly more rare. Is the coin all silver or silver with gold?

2 x 1 is very different than 2 x 10 though... I do not use a formula like that to value coins either.

When the 25BTC cas coins sell they sell at like 27(?). So there really is not a formula. More of what people want for their coins.
I know nubbins has some S2 5BTC I think for 25BTC...

[dazedfool]

I can get a 10btc gold B locally

except it will cost a premium (without me making anything)

I will however still help get it if you need, think he wants 21BTC

Cheers

2.1x face is in line with valuations for (if not better than) BTC1 coins...and the BTC10 coin is significantly more rare. Is the coin all silver or silver with gold?

2 x 1 is very different than 2 x 10 though... I do not use a formula like that to value coins either.

When the 25BTC cas coins sell they sell at like 27(?). So there really is not a formula. More of what people want for their coins.
I know nubbins has some S2 5BTC I think for 25BTC...

Yea the whole X times face thing is a calculation used generally for junk silver to simplify the math (spot*0.715*face+premium). Dunno why people apply it to Cas coins. Should think of it simply as face plus premium, determined solely by rarity and demand.

[David19]

I have sent in 10btc silver coin for grading, i should receive it soon, when i do ill pm you with pics and will be awaittin for an offer, im also pretty sure its going to be ms67+

[Possum577]

I can get a 10btc gold B locally

except it will cost a premium (without me making anything)

I will however still help get it if you need, think he wants 21BTC

Cheers

2.1x face is in line with valuations for (if not better than) BTC1 coins...and the BTC10 coin is significantly more rare. Is the coin all silver or silver with gold?

2 x 1 is very different than 2 x 10 though... I do not use a formula like that to value coins either.

When the 25BTC cas coins sell they sell at like 27(?). So there really is not a formula. More of what people want for their coins.
I know nubbins has some S2 5BTC I think for 25BTC...

Yea the whole X times face thing is a calculation used generally for junk silver to simplify the math (spot*0.715*face+premium). Dunno why people apply it to Cas coins. Should think of it simply as face plus premium, determined solely by rarity and demand.

Dazed, don't be a fool.

Valuation multipliers aren't reserved for some things people purchase and not for others. It's a mathematical way to compare the bid or offer price of two different things that cannot otherwise be easily compared. Here's an appropriate example for you: One cannot compare the sales price between a physical 1BTC coin and 10BTC coin because the stored value in one is ten times the other AND there's no generally accepted treatment of the premium that should be applied to each. The only way to equally, fairly compare the prices is by using a valuation multiplier.

The Casascius tenths have gone for 20x face, the 1BTC has gone for 2-4x face depending on the type of coin (i.e., brass or silver), and denominations above have rarely if ever been sold publicly so there's no real information the potential price range.

If you think that valuations are reserved for select items or aren't relevant, you're wrong. Now, you can choose not to agree with a valuation multiplier or think about the formula for price differently - that's completely fine, should be encouraged! But until someone buys these coins and the price is public we have no real way to assess what the price should be, hence my multiplier valuation comment.

[Quickseller]

This is as good a time as any to remind people how numismatics are priced.

SALE PRICE = (FACE VALUE) + (NUMISMATIC VALUE) + (SELLER'S PREMIUM)

Notice the lack of multiplication symbols; statements such as "2x face" or "10x face" have no meaning and no place in numismatics.

The FACE VALUE for a Casascius coin would be the value of the BTC stored within, plus the spot value of any precious metals.

The NUMISMATIC VALUE is an absolute value based solely on the desirability of the coin. This generally correlates with mintage, age, and condition, but other factors can be at play here as well.

The SELLER'S PREMIUM varies from seller to seller, based on a number of factors including the seller's trustworthiness, care in packaging, supporting documentation or certifications, and other factors.

The biggest point to make here is that with all other things being equal, FACE VALUE and NUMISMATIC VALUE have no bearing on one another.

Although people will sometimes technically pay 20x the face value of a cas tenth, this is not how the price of a coin is generally priced by traders and collectors.

Also, FYI if someone were to buy a redeemed or I funded coin then they would be paying infinity times it's loaded value (this isn't quite an accurate mathematical statement although it should get the point across). 

[dazedfool]

Yea the whole X times face thing is a calculation used generally for junk silver to simplify the math (spot*0.715*face+premium). Dunno why people apply it to Cas coins. Should think of it simply as face plus premium, determined solely by rarity and demand.

Dazed, don't be a fool.

Valuation multipliers aren't reserved for some things people purchase and not for others. It's a mathematical way to compare the bid or offer price of two different things that cannot otherwise be easily compared. Here's an appropriate example for you: One cannot compare the sales price between a physical 1BTC coin and 10BTC coin because the stored value in one is ten times the other AND there's no generally accepted treatment of the premium that should be applied to each. The only way to equally, fairly compare the prices is by using a valuation multiplier.

The Casascius tenths have gone for 20x face, the 1BTC has gone for 2-4x face depending on the type of coin (i.e., brass or silver), and denominations above have rarely if ever been sold publicly so there's no real information the potential price range.

If you think that valuations are reserved for select items or aren't relevant, you're wrong. Now, you can choose not to agree with a valuation multiplier or think about the formula for price differently - that's completely fine, should be encouraged! But until someone buys these coins and the price is public we have no real way to assess what the price should be, hence my multiplier valuation comment.

You can apply whatever mathematical formula you want to value a coin, doesn't mean it makes any sense. And directly comparing your arbitrary scale between two completely different coins is ridiculous. (e.g. 2x face for 1 1btc vs 10btc silver cas). Different mintages, different values, different histories...

Would you use a multiplier for a Morgan dollar? "I'd like to pay 300x face ($1) for that exemplary MS grade CC, but no more!" Nope.

Have you ever used a multiplier for gold coins? "I'll pay 60x face ($20) for that fine double eagle!" Doubt it.

Is 1.15x face value a good representation for the gold 25btc? Or how about THE VALUE within + 2-3btc premium? Hmm...

EDIT: the nubbins quote by QS is bang-on correct.

[Possum577]

Yea the whole X times face thing is a calculation used generally for junk silver to simplify the math (spot*0.715*face+premium). Dunno why people apply it to Cas coins. Should think of it simply as face plus premium, determined solely by rarity and demand.

Dazed, don't be a fool.

Valuation multipliers aren't reserved for some things people purchase and not for others. It's a mathematical way to compare the bid or offer price of two different things that cannot otherwise be easily compared. Here's an appropriate example for you: One cannot compare the sales price between a physical 1BTC coin and 10BTC coin because the stored value in one is ten times the other AND there's no generally accepted treatment of the premium that should be applied to each. The only way to equally, fairly compare the prices is by using a valuation multiplier.

The Casascius tenths have gone for 20x face, the 1BTC has gone for 2-4x face depending on the type of coin (i.e., brass or silver), and denominations above have rarely if ever been sold publicly so there's no real information the potential price range.

If you think that valuations are reserved for select items or aren't relevant, you're wrong. Now, you can choose not to agree with a valuation multiplier or think about the formula for price differently - that's completely fine, should be encouraged! But until someone buys these coins and the price is public we have no real way to assess what the price should be, hence my multiplier valuation comment.

You can apply whatever mathematical formula you want to value a coin, doesn't mean it makes any sense. And directly comparing your arbitrary scale between two completely different coins is ridiculous. (e.g. 2x face for 1 1btc vs 10btc silver cas). Different mintages, different values, different histories...

Would you use a multiplier for a Morgan dollar? "I'd like to pay 300x face ($1) for that exemplary MS grade CC, but no more!" Nope.

Have you ever used a multiplier for gold coins? "I'll pay 60x face ($20) for that fine double eagle!" Doubt it.

Is 1.15x face value a good representation for the gold 25btc? Or how about THE VALUE within + 2-3btc premium? Hmm...

EDIT: the nubbins quote by QS is bang-on correct.

Dazed, you can use a multiplier on anything you're or I are trying to value in comparison to something else where those two items can easily be compared in terms of value or price. SO yes, I'd value a Morgan Dollar to another US silver dollar (different time period, not Morgan) in terms of a multiplier. Or to compare the price of gold coins from two different governments (e.g., Maple Leafs vs. Kuggerands.) People value companies in terms of multipliers too. There's a lot of uses for it.

The key thing here is that it's not my mathematical formula, it's not arbitrary. It's not like i've determined what the multiplier is - it's literally the sale price divide by face value.

Here's a link to "Valuation Multiples" to help you understand its economic definition -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valuation_using_multiples

"Usefulness: Valuation is about judgment, and multiples provide a framework for making value judgements. When used properly, multiples are robust tools that can provide useful information about relative value." (Quicksilver, you should read this wikipedia link, I think it would help you understand. You keep quoting Nubbins and his comments don't speak to multiples at all.)

You can decide to use this information or not, but its not my opinion it's a factual way to express market value. The best part is that it's really simple! In no way am I saying that 2.1x SHOULD be the valuation for the BTC10 coin, i'm just trying to understand how the market values these coins. In my experience the lowest valuation is for standard BTC1 coins. The tenths get valued higher as do the halves...which is kind of crazy to me.

The higher the face value of the Casascius coin the lower the relative premium that's assigned to it's sale price...that's very odd to me, especially when the highest face value coins are the most scarce.

[wheelz1200]

This conversation has been going around many times.  The highest "multiplyers" are from the bottom up .1, .5, 1.0 silvers)  thats because if you put a 2.1x multiplyer on a .1 silver the seller will have gained about $35 usd over the face value.  Now take the 2.1 on a 10btc and the seller will have gained roughly $3k above face value.  Casascius coins have value over and above the face value and is strictly driven by supply and demand...as is everything else.  The 25 btc dont fetch a high premium because 1) they are in the eyes of a lot the least favorable coun design wise and also as you scale up there just isnt enough buyers *demand) so the will fetch a lower premium.  There are many ways to look at valuations and cas coins seem to be a tough one for everyone to grasp, but the market is what it is because of supply vs. demand.

Now lets give blazed his thread back.

[Possum577]

This conversation has been going around many times.  The highest "multiplyers" are from the bottom up .1, .5, 1.0 silvers)  thats because if you put a 2.1x multiplyer on a .1 silver the seller will have gained about $35 usd over the face value.  Now take the 2.1 on a 10btc and the seller will have gained roughly $3k above face value.  Casascius coins have value over and above the face value and is strictly driven by supply and demand...as is everything else.  The 25 btc dont fetch a high premium because 1) they are in the eyes of a lot the least favorable coun design wise and also as you scale up there just isnt enough buyers *demand) so the will fetch a lower premium.  There are many ways to look at valuations and cas coins seem to be a tough one for everyone to grasp, but the market is what it is because of supply vs. demand.

Now lets give blazed his thread back.

Agreed.

Sorry I was a bit of a catalyst to a side conversation that hijacked your thread, Blazed. I only started by commenting on the sale price proposed by a legitimate offer. I didn't intend for that comment to take us off course (but I did respond to those off topic comments, so I enabled it to happen.)

These conversations are fun to have, I hope others believe so too.

[wheelz1200]

This conversation has been going around many times.  The highest "multiplyers" are from the bottom up .1, .5, 1.0 silvers)  thats because if you put a 2.1x multiplyer on a .1 silver the seller will have gained about $35 usd over the face value.  Now take the 2.1 on a 10btc and the seller will have gained roughly $3k above face value.  Casascius coins have value over and above the face value and is strictly driven by supply and demand...as is everything else.  The 25 btc dont fetch a high premium because 1) they are in the eyes of a lot the least favorable coun design wise and also as you scale up there just isnt enough buyers *demand) so the will fetch a lower premium.  There are many ways to look at valuations and cas coins seem to be a tough one for everyone to grasp, but the market is what it is because of supply vs. demand.

Now lets give blazed his thread back.

Agreed.

Sorry I was a bit of a catalyst to a side conversation that hijacked your thread, Blazed. I only started by commenting on the sale price proposed by a legitimate offer. I didn't intend for that comment to take us off course (but I did respond to those off topic comments, so I enabled it to happen.)

These conversations are fun to have, I hope others believe so too.

They are fun to have....we need that sub forum for physicals.

[Blazed]

Feel free to chat all you want in this thread since we have no other place to do it. Multiplier for Casascius does not work and never has. Some coins get 2-3x face, but it just depends. The 5BTC coins command 2-3 over face while the 25 is lucky to get 2 over face. Some Casascius have crazy markup while others do not...it is a unique market indeed.

[nubbins]

Feel free to chat all you want in this thread since we have no other place to do it. Multiplier for Casascius does not work and never has. Some coins get 2-3x face, but it just depends. The 5BTC coins command 2-3 over face while the 25 is lucky to get 2 over face. Some Casascius have crazy markup while others do not...it is a unique market indeed.

I'm more tempted to get a 25BTC now than I was back when they were still being sold by Mike. Dat super-low premium!

Sure, you've then got 25btc locked up in a fucking nickel round, but hey -- we're all going down with the ship 

[dazedfool]

Feel free to chat all you want in this thread since we have no other place to do it. Multiplier for Casascius does not work and never has. Some coins get 2-3x face, but it just depends. The 5BTC coins command 2-3 over face while the 25 is lucky to get 2 over face. Some Casascius have crazy markup while others do not...it is a unique market indeed.

I'm more tempted to get a 25BTC now than I was back when they were still being sold by Mike. Dat super-low premium!

Sure, you've then got 25btc locked up in a fucking nickel round, but hey -- we're all going down with the ship 

Ahh I wonder what the premium would be on an intact gold 1000 if one were ever to show up on the market...