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Author Topic: Transaction fee of 0.01 BTC when sending 0.01 BTC?  (Read 2842 times)
Alatius
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June 02, 2011, 09:23:46 AM
 #1

Hello, I'm a complete newbie when it comes to Bitcoin, and I must admit I'm a bit confused at the moment. As most people, I imagine, the first thing I did was receiving my 0.02 from the faucet. This was a couple of days ago. Then today, I decided to try to use the money, so I went to Double Trouble, and tried to bet 0.01. When trying to send this amount, I got the message "This transaction is over the size limit.  You can still send it for a fee of 0.01 ..." Is this really expected behaviour? The only thing I could find on the forum was mentions of mandatory fees when sending amounts below 0.01.

In the end, I ended up paying the fee (in hindsight, not the smartest thing to do, since at best, the fee was equal to what I would win, but I just wanted to see the money in action). My sending reached 6 confirmations after about 11 minutes. Again, is it usual to wait that long? Considering that I payed a fee, I mean?

(By the way, I did end up winning, so I'm now back at 0.02. Heh.)

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spleeder
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June 02, 2011, 09:33:21 AM
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Congratulations on winning!

It seems that the smallest amount you can send without a fee is no longer 0.01 BTC since the latest patch. Maybe someone with a bit more experience can explain better.

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Alatius
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June 02, 2011, 01:18:40 PM
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Thanks!

But I'm not sure I get this... I've read about transaction fees on the wikiw: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees and I understand that there is a mandatory fee on very small amounts, less than 0.01. But even if this has changed, the error message I get tells me that the amount I'm trying to send, 0.01 BTC, is over the size limit. What size limit? Does this refer to the "blocksize"? The wiki says "0.01 BTC fee per kilobyte of transaction, but: If the blocksize (size of all transactions currently waiting to be included in a block) is less than 27 kB, transactions are free." Have I come above 27 kB? How do I know the blocksize?

Are other people able to send 0.01 BTC without paying fees?

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Pieter Wuille
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June 02, 2011, 01:21:38 PM
 #4

The size limit referred to here is a size in bytes, not amount. If your 0.01 payment consumes a lot of small coins, it may grow quite large.

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gmaxwell
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June 02, 2011, 01:42:44 PM
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Thanks!
But I'm not sure I get this... I've read about transaction fees on the wikiw: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees and I understand that there is a mandatory fee on very small amounts, less than 0.01. But even if this has changed, the error message I get tells me that the amount I'm trying to send, 0.01 BTC, is over the size limit. What size limit? Does this refer to the "blocksize"? The wiki says "0.01 BTC fee per kilobyte of transaction, but: If the blocksize (size of all transactions currently waiting to be included in a block) is less than 27 kB, transactions are free." Have I come above 27 kB? How do I know the blocksize?
Are other people able to send 0.01 BTC without paying fees?

Yes, the message you're seeing is a bit confusing.  As you read, TXN with parts less than 0.01 have a mandatory fee however the client enforces a fee in another case: When the transaction has very low priority (and may takes weeks to get processed).

The priority of the transaction is computed based on  txn_value * age_of_coins / tx_size_in_bytes.  The age is how long they've been sitting in your wallet.  If the
priority is low enough that the rest of the network would handle your txn very slowly the client (though only version .21) will make you put a 0.01 fee on it, which fixes the priority.

Normally, once you have a reasonably sized wallet with some reasonable aged coins, you'll not run into this issue.  An upcoming version of the client reduces that fee to 0.0005, since 0.01 was getting a bit stupidly large.

The reason for this system is to prevent a transaction denial of service attack— without it I could simply bounce 0.01 bitcoin between two wallets 1000 times per minute and clog up the whole system just to be a jerk.

Regarding confirmation time, getting 6 confirmations in 11 minutes is unusually fast. The designed-in average rate of confirmations is 1 per 10 minutes.




 

Alex Beckenham
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June 02, 2011, 01:51:17 PM
 #6

You can get around this issue by using a slightly older version.

I have no trouble sending fee free transactions (even small ones like 0.01) in version 0.3.20.2.

Apparently, the above issue is mainly with 0.3.21.

Also, I'm told that the next version, 0.3.22, will go back to the old behaviour.

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