I did my first Bitcoin presentation last week at a York Green Party meeting

[Yorkydude]

This was quite a challenge for me as I'm not great at presentations and obviously never done one about Bitcoin. Because I was at a political party meeting I tried to give it a political angle and not go too technical. I was also only given 5 minutes, which turned into 10 and a fair few people had questions and comments after. One of the most interesting was that proof-of-stake was a better system for the environment and an inflationary currency would be better for society. I'm curious about the proof-of-stake, but don't think people given the choice would choose an inflationary currency over a deflationary one. The guy said that deflation helps the rich more than the poor.

Anyway, it was nice to do something like this and I hope I can maybe do another one in the future.  

[batesresearch]

Wow great, it is a great accomplishment.

I am due to do my first bitcoin / altcoin speech in a few months - very nervous!

[Yorkydude]

Thanks man. I was very nervous too, but the way to ease them nerves in the future is to do more.

What type of audience will you have?

I did the classic Andreas start by asking who had heard of Bitcoin and who had some. Was a good way to get started and help the nerves.

[BitUsher]

Excellent contribution. PoW is a hard sell for environmentalists. You can stress that ASICs are very efficient at converting electricity into heat and the laws of thermodynamics incentivize miners to use inexpensive renewable energy like hydro that can than be recycled as waste heat for useful purposes.

They still may be interested in PoS, but you can clarify that PoW is valuable both as a fairer distribution model than a premined/instamined PoS coin and because it offers better security.

an inflationary currency would be better for society. I'm curious about the proof-of-stake, but don't think people given the choice would choose an inflationary currency over a deflationary one.

This is the point when you could have corrected them and clarified that bitcoin is indeed inflationary and not deflationary, disinflationary to be exact. You could clarify that Bitcoin currently has around ~10% inflation, will have 5% next year.. and will have very low inflation till 2140.

[Elwar]

Bitcoin is a cure for communism so I can imagine it did not go over well at a Communist Party meeting.

They do not want a currency that is fair, they want one that gets distributed (stopping first in their pockets so they can determine who is worthy).

Decentralization is the antithesis of people who want power to be centralized.

Even though the Green Party is just a front for their true passion of communism and they don't really care about the environment, here is a detailed breakdown of the carbon footprint of Bitcoin's PoW system:
http://www.coindesk.com/microscope-conclusions-costs-bitcoin/



The good news is that those types of people are typically not early adopters so they will be left with their fiat to the bitter end. Complaining the whole way down.

[batesresearch]

Thanks man. I was very nervous too, but the way to ease them nerves in the future is to do more.

What type of audience will you have?

I did the classic Andreas start by asking who had heard of Bitcoin and who had some. Was a good way to get started and help the nerves.

😀

It will be at a Bitcoin meet up, just about my company and my view on crypto currencies but want to start my own courses as well so will be a good springboard.

lol - I just watched another Andreas talk - great intro.

[Yorkydude]

Excellent contribution. PoW is a hard sell for environmentalists. You can stress that ASICs are very efficient at converting electricity into heat and the laws of thermodynamics incentivize miners to use inexpensive renewable energy like hydro that can than be recycled as waste heat for useful purposes.

They still may be interested in PoS, but you can clarify that PoW is valuable both as a fairer distribution model than a premined/instamined PoS coin and because it offers better security.

an inflationary currency would be better for society. I'm curious about the proof-of-stake, but don't think people given the choice would choose an inflationary currency over a deflationary one.

This is the point when you could have corrected them and clarified that bitcoin is indeed inflationary and not deflationary, disinflationary to be exact. You could clarify that Bitcoin currently has around ~10% inflation, will have 5% next year.. and will have very low inflation till 2140.

Thanks for the information - i'll look into that.

I did actually argue that there is inflation with bitcoin, but his come back was that there are more coins lost than there are being produced, creating deflation. I said there is no way in knowing that for a fact.  

[BitUsher]

Bitcoin is a cure for communism so I can imagine it did not go over well at a Communist Party meeting.

They do not want a currency that is fair, they want one that gets distributed (stopping first in their pockets so they can determine who is worthy).

Decentralization is the antithesis of people who want power to be centralized.

Even though the Green Party is just a front for their true passion of communism and they don't really care about the environment, here is a detailed breakdown of the carbon footprint of Bitcoin's PoW system:
http://www.coindesk.com/carbon-footprint-bitcoin/

The good news is that those types of people are typically not early adopters so they will be left with their fiat to the bitter end. Complaining the whole way down.

I could imagine that someone could invent a communist coin as a BTC sidechain and it could work on an extremely local level like a small anarcho-communist collective(just like bartering) but they tend to be unstable and not scale.

I did actually argue that there is inflation with bitcoin, but his come back was that there are more coins lost than there are being produced, creating deflation. I said there is no way in knowing that for a fact. 

In fact you can pretty much guarantee that people aren't losing 3600 BTC a day. The higher the value BTC is the more steps people will take to back it up and secure it. The only reason so many bitcoins were lost early on was because they were worth from 0-pennies and few had confidence in its future. This has completely reversed.

[Elwar]

Bitcoin is a cure for communism so I can imagine it did not go over well at a Communist Party meeting.

They do not want a currency that is fair, they want one that gets distributed (stopping first in their pockets so they can determine who is worthy).

Decentralization is the antithesis of people who want power to be centralized.

Even though the Green Party is just a front for their true passion of communism and they don't really care about the environment, here is a detailed breakdown of the carbon footprint of Bitcoin's PoW system:
http://www.coindesk.com/carbon-footprint-bitcoin/

The good news is that those types of people are typically not early adopters so they will be left with their fiat to the bitter end. Complaining the whole way down.

I could imagine that someone could invent a communist coin as a BTC sidechain and it could work on an extremely local level like a small anarcho-communist collective(just like bartering) but they tend to be unstable and not scale.

Freicoin was created as an inflationary coin.

Haven't heard of it? Ya...because nobody would voluntarily start using a currency made to lose value.

Any small community creating their own coin is vulnerable to a 51% attack by anyone who wants to disrupt their community.

[LiteCoinGuy]

, which turned into 10 and a fair few people had questions and comments after. One of the most interesting was that proof-of-stake was a better system for the environment and an inflationary currency would be better for society. I'm curious about the proof-of-stake, but don't think people given the choice would choose an inflationary currency over a deflationary one. The guy said that deflation helps the rich more than the poor.

Anyway, it was nice to do something like this and I hope I can maybe do another one in the future.  

"The utility of the exchanges made possible by Bitcoin will far exceed the cost of electricity used. Therefore, not having Bitcoin would be the net waste."

S.N.

[BitUsher]

Freicoin was created as an inflationary coin.

Haven't heard of it? Ya...because nobody would voluntarily start using a currency made to lose value.

Any small community creating their own coin is vulnerable to a 51% attack by anyone who wants to disrupt their community.

Salient point and why a communist like coin would need to piggy back off of bitcoins security as a sidechain if it wanted a chance of survival.
I have visited several anarcho-collectives and am ok with people voluntarily adopting these anti-capitalist polices as long as it is voluntary and not forced upon others through coercion. There are many examples of local currencies that do "ok" and serve some useful purposes and if a group of them wanted to get together and create a
token to denominate hours worked instead of value determined by the marketplace than they should be able to. They won't attract many high skilled work with that
plan and likely remain somewhat behind technologically, but that is fine if they prefer such a lifestyle.

This being said it is important to recognize that despite the green party having the right principles on many social policies and good intentions their overall platform and philosophy tends to be more socialistic where they want to impose top down central planning upon society which is antithetical to many bitcoin principles. This means that you would need to convince them indirectly by some other means such that Bitcoin has the most momentum and is far superior to traditional banking that it would be wise to place our effort behind this project and than work on other more favorable options or change bitcoin itself in the future.

[Elwar]

Freicoin was created as an inflationary coin.

Haven't heard of it? Ya...because nobody would voluntarily start using a currency made to lose value.

Any small community creating their own coin is vulnerable to a 51% attack by anyone who wants to disrupt their community.

Salient point and why a communist like coin would need to piggy back off of bitcoins security as a sidechain if it wanted a chance of survival.
I have visited several anarcho-collectives and am ok with people voluntarily adopting these anti-capitalist polices as long as it is voluntary and not forced upon others through coercion. There are many examples of local currencies that do "ok" and serve some useful purposes and if a group of them wanted to get together and create a
token to denominate hours worked instead of value determined by the marketplace than they should be able to. They won't attract many high skilled work with that
plan and likely remain somewhat behind technologically, but that is fine if they prefer such a lifestyle.

Yes, a colored coin might work in such an instance.

[Yorkydude]

Bitcoin is a cure for communism so I can imagine it did not go over well at a Communist Party meeting.

They do not want a currency that is fair, they want one that gets distributed (stopping first in their pockets so they can determine who is worthy).

Decentralization is the antithesis of people who want power to be centralized.

Even though the Green Party is just a front for their true passion of communism and they don't really care about the environment, here is a detailed breakdown of the carbon footprint of Bitcoin's PoW system:
http://www.coindesk.com/carbon-footprint-bitcoin/

The good news is that those types of people are typically not early adopters so they will be left with their fiat to the bitter end. Complaining the whole way down.

I disagree mate. They are the most democratic party around. Every policy they have is decided by a voting system. They support fairer economic polices and I find them very open minded, which is why I decided to vote for them a few months back. I joined the party because I wanted a better insight to the type of people running the show. I'm impressed with what I've seen. They are basically a bunch of activists that i believe are forward thinking and actually the first party to have any of their members accept Bitcoin for donations. Look here:

http://www.coindesk.com/green-activist-first-mainstream-uk-politician-accept-bitcoin/

They were very keen to have me talk about Bitcoin and the reception was very positive.

[Carlton Banks]

One of the most interesting was that proof-of-stake was a better system for the environment and an inflationary currency would be better for society. I'm curious about the proof-of-stake, but don't think people given the choice would choose an inflationary currency over a deflationary one.

The argument against proof of stake is that the data isn't properly secured. Understanding why depends on your understanding of what the reason is for using the hash function at all. Stress this point. Understand it yourself as best you can. The hashing is not wasteful at all, the reality is the opposite.

There's nothing inherently inflationary about proof of stake. You really ought to do the due diligence here, as you are acting in a position of responsibility. Don't allow your reputation to suffer as a result of this.  

[Yorkydude]

One of the most interesting was that proof-of-stake was a better system for the environment and an inflationary currency would be better for society. I'm curious about the proof-of-stake, but don't think people given the choice would choose an inflationary currency over a deflationary one.

The argument against proof of stake is that the data isn't properly secured. Understanding why depends on your understanding of what the reason is for using the hash function at all. Stress this point. Understand it yourself as best you can. The hashing is not wasteful at all, the reality is the opposite.

There's nothing inherently inflationary about proof of stake. You really ought to do the due diligence here, as you are acting in a position of responsibility. Don't allow your reputation to suffer as a result of this.  

I didn't claim that there was anything inflationary about proof of stake and neither did the guy that made the comment. He said he believed more in a coin that has both these attributes.

[Elwar]

Bitcoin is a cure for communism so I can imagine it did not go over well at a Communist Party meeting.

They do not want a currency that is fair, they want one that gets distributed (stopping first in their pockets so they can determine who is worthy).

Decentralization is the antithesis of people who want power to be centralized.

Even though the Green Party is just a front for their true passion of communism and they don't really care about the environment, here is a detailed breakdown of the carbon footprint of Bitcoin's PoW system:
http://www.coindesk.com/carbon-footprint-bitcoin/

The good news is that those types of people are typically not early adopters so they will be left with their fiat to the bitter end. Complaining the whole way down.

I disagree mate. They are the most democratic party around. Every policy they have is decided by a voting system. They support fairer economic polices and I find them very open minded, which is why I decided to vote for them a few months back. I joined the party because I wanted a better insight to the type of people running the show. I'm impressed with what I've seen. They are basically a bunch of activists that i believe are forward thinking and actually the first party to have any of their members accept Bitcoin for donations. Look here:

http://www.coindesk.com/green-activist-first-mainstream-uk-politician-accept-bitcoin/

They were very keen to have me talk about Bitcoin and the reception was very positive.

Ahh...Green Party in the UK.

I was thinking of the Green Party of the US which is basically people who love communism but don't like being linked to the baggage of the millions of people who died under those systems. So they change their name to Green Party or progressism.

[Carlton Banks]

One of the most interesting was that proof-of-stake was a better system for the environment and an inflationary currency would be better for society. I'm curious about the proof-of-stake, but don't think people given the choice would choose an inflationary currency over a deflationary one.

The argument against proof of stake is that the data isn't properly secured. Understanding why depends on your understanding of what the reason is for using the hash function at all. Stress this point. Understand it yourself as best you can. The hashing is not wasteful at all, the reality is the opposite.

There's nothing inherently inflationary about proof of stake. You really ought to do the due diligence here, as you are acting in a position of responsibility. Don't allow your reputation to suffer as a result of this.  

I didn't claim that there was anything inflationary about proof of stake and neither did the guy that made the comment. He said he believed more in a coin that has both these attributes.

Ah, that slipped past me. Study the hash function.

[BitUsher]

I disagree mate. They are the most democratic party around. Every policy they have is decided by a voting system.

Communism isn't the right definition , but I think Elwar was using it as a descriptive sense rather than categorically.

The point is they are structured in such a way that they support a much different type of "democracy" than what exists in Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is permissionless, open source, and voluntary where one vote can decide a new direction and the majority can not force the minority through coercion.

[Yorkydude]

One of the most interesting was that proof-of-stake was a better system for the environment and an inflationary currency would be better for society. I'm curious about the proof-of-stake, but don't think people given the choice would choose an inflationary currency over a deflationary one.

The argument against proof of stake is that the data isn't properly secured. Understanding why depends on your understanding of what the reason is for using the hash function at all. Stress this point. Understand it yourself as best you can. The hashing is not wasteful at all, the reality is the opposite.

There's nothing inherently inflationary about proof of stake. You really ought to do the due diligence here, as you are acting in a position of responsibility. Don't allow your reputation to suffer as a result of this.  

I didn't claim that there was anything inflationary about proof of stake and neither did the guy that made the comment. He said he believed more in a coin that has both these attributes.

Ah, that slipped past me. Study the hash function.

Thanks, I will.

[Yorkydude]

I disagree mate. They are the most democratic party around. Every policy they have is decided by a voting system.

Communism isn't the right definition , but I think Elwar was using it as a descriptive sense rather than categorically.

The point is they are structured in such a way that they support a much different type of "democracy" than what exists in Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is permissionless, open source, and voluntary where one vote can decide a new direction and the majority can not force the minority through coercion.

Yes, well I don't think you'll find a political party on the planet that is behind Bitcoin yet, but I believe the UK Green Party are open minded enough and if they can see true benefits for society which are better than the alternatives, they will get behind it. It's a long way off, but I hope I have at least planted a few seeds.