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Author Topic: [ANN] Bitcoinocracy.com - Sign your argument with your non-empty Bitcoin address  (Read 3423 times)
arsenische
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July 24, 2015, 06:20:21 AM
Last edit: August 29, 2015, 01:09:05 AM by arsenische
 #1

This is an experimental launch of the Bitcoinocracy -- a project that aims to determine the truth backed by real monetary value and to facilitate decentralized decision making in the Bitcoin eco-system.

It is not a commercial-grade software, but it is absolutely free, transparent, open source and doesn't require user registration.

Just sign the statements with non-empty bitcoin addresses to express your opinion.

PS: I wanted to make it long ago but I didn't have time to do it and wasn't sure there would be a demand for it, so I decided to publish it and see what happens. Anybody is  welcome to participate.

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July 24, 2015, 05:22:10 PM
 #2

Just sign the statements with non-empty bitcoin addresses to express your opinion.

Please I do not understand what you mean by this and why is it necessary.
arsenische
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July 24, 2015, 07:50:54 PM
 #3

Just sign the statements with non-empty bitcoin addresses to express your opinion.

Please I do not understand what you mean by this and why is it necessary.

Thanks for your question. It looks like not so many people are aware of bitcoin signatures.

When I say "to sign with bitcoin address" I mean "to sign with the private key that corresponds to the bitcoin address". Each bitcoin address has a corresponding private key that can be used to create a cryptographic signature for any message. Popular bitcoin wallets (Bitcoin-QT, Electrum, Armory, Multibit, Blockchain.info) support this functionality.

When you sign a statement with your bitcoin address (and submit it), Bitcoinocracy considers that statement to be supported by all bitcoins stored at that address.

Different people can sign the same statement with their bitcoin addresses and Bitcoinocracy will sum their balances up.

If the statement is controversial then some people are likely to sign the opposite statement and Bitcoinocracy will evaluate the validity of the argument as a difference between sum of beleiver's and sum of doubters' bitcoins.

It is somewhat similar to shareholder voting in the corporate world. Your weight depends on amount of voting shares (satoshis).



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July 24, 2015, 08:03:31 PM
 #4

I'll be watching this, it's an interesting concept and has a great start! I'd suggest making some adjustments and polishing the UI once the main functionality is worked out.

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July 25, 2015, 04:41:53 AM
 #5

I'll be watching this, it's an interesting concept and has a great start! I'd suggest making some adjustments and polishing the UI once the main functionality is worked out.

Thank you for your words of support. Yes, UI need to be improved, functionality enhanced, more content with information about bitcoin signatures should be placed there as well.

I announced Bitcoinocracy here and in Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ef380/bitcoinocracy_an_opensource_project_to_facilitate/), but I don't see much interest yet. Someone just created an argument "ok" and nobody signed any statement.

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August 17, 2015, 12:04:00 PM
 #6

Sign "I believe that Block size limit should be increased to 8 mb as soon as possible" with your bitcoin address to show your support. Or click "Doubt" and sign "I doubt that Block size limit should be increased to 8 mb as soon as possible". We'll see what part of economy supports this statement.



The results are verifiable, here is the list of signatures for and against the argument.

Bitcoinocracy is an opensource project. If you think it is useful - please join or use it so that I feel interest and find time to develop it.

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August 17, 2015, 02:30:16 PM
 #7

I like the idea but not so sure whether the voting with your address balance is the right thing.

All it will take is for one 'whale' or semi-whale to skew any option to his/her favour. So you can easily end up with a situation where there is a say 50 to 1 vote yet the 1 person who is against the others have more funds than the 50 put together meaning that the topic will reflect in his/her favour which will actually be a skewed picture of reality.

That is unless you believe in the saying 'money talks and BS walks'  Grin

A suggestion: How about including percentages on each side. Much easier to spot how things are standing when viewing percentages. Keep the btc balances but add percentages behind it.
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August 17, 2015, 02:57:26 PM
 #8

interesting, but you should add faq page because when i see your site in first time im confused about the amount of bitcoin.
and how if the people who sign the statement change their wallet balance? i mean the amount is decrease too?
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August 17, 2015, 03:20:10 PM
 #9

All it will take is for one 'whale' or semi-whale to skew any option to his/her favour. So you can easily end up with a situation where there is a say 50 to 1 vote yet the 1 person who is against the others have more funds than the 50 put together meaning that the topic will reflect in his/her favour which will actually be a skewed picture of reality.

That's true, but if the issue is important then another semi-whale should join the party, or a huge mass of people will try to oppose with their small balances. That would be interesting to watch.

Though any voter can easily split one's balance and pretend to be a crowd of voters, that's why the balance is the only reliable measure, not the amount of bitcoin signatures.


Quote
That is unless you believe in the saying 'money talks and BS walks'  Grin

Money have something to say, I'd like to hear that (though probably we hear it all the time from the mass media, but not in such a transparent and accurate manner).

Quote
A suggestion: How about including percentages on each side. Much easier to spot how things are standing when viewing percentages. Keep the btc balances but add percentages behind it.

Thanks for you suggestion! Do you suggest to display: "9.12659522 Ƀ Believe |  0.0001 Ƀ Doubt" as "9.12659522 Ƀ (0.998904313%) Believe | 0.0001 Ƀ (0.001095687%) Doubt" ?

interesting, but you should add faq page because when i see your site in first time im confused about the amount of bitcoin.

Thanks for your feedback, I totally agree with you. Someone (preferably a native speaker) should create description of how Bitcoinocracy works and how to make Bitcoin signatures. Long ago I made a brief explanation of how to sign a message with popular bitcoin clients (Bitcoin-QT, Multi-Bit, Electrum, Blockchain.info) for other service, probably we need something similar for Bitcoinocracy.

Quote
and how if the people who sign the statement change their wallet balance? i mean the amount is decrease too?

Yes, it is supposed to change as the balance changes and it is easy to implement, just didn't do it yet.

There are a lot of things to be done. Friendly URLs, social sharing buttons, bitcoin balance updater task, create content, etc.

The current state of the project is just proof of concept.  Feel free to join the project and contribute in any form Smiley

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August 17, 2015, 04:00:14 PM
 #10

interesting, but you should add faq page because when i see your site in first time im confused about the amount of bitcoin.
and how if the people who sign the statement change their wallet balance? i mean the amount is decrease too?

This is something the OP needs to take into account. I might vote today with 1 btc in my wallet but use it later the same day to buy something meaning my vote balance will decrease as above poster mentioned.

You will have to take a snapshot of the balance at the time of the vote and save that in a database otherwise the values are going to be skewed over time.
arsenische
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August 17, 2015, 04:41:53 PM
 #11

interesting, but you should add faq page because when i see your site in first time im confused about the amount of bitcoin.
and how if the people who sign the statement change their wallet balance? i mean the amount is decrease too?

This is something the OP needs to take into account. I might vote today with 1 btc in my wallet but use it later the same day to buy something meaning my vote balance will decrease as above poster mentioned.

You will have to take a snapshot of the balance at the time of the vote and save that in a database otherwise the values are going to be skewed over time.


That's how it works now, it caches the balance in our database and if you spend your funds after making a vote, it won't decrease the weight of the vote.

I consider it to be a bug that should be fixed, because it makes it trivial to manipulate voting results by moving your funds from one bitcoin addresses to another inside your own wallet and thus generate unlimited amount of "valuable" signatures.

It is important to fetch up-to-date data from the Blockchain on a regular basis (and it is easy to implement).

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August 17, 2015, 05:51:14 PM
 #12

Quote
Thanks for you suggestion! Do you suggest to display: "9.12659522 Ƀ Believe |  0.0001 Ƀ Doubt" as "9.12659522 Ƀ (0.998904313%) Believe | 0.0001 Ƀ (0.001095687%) Doubt" ?

Yes something like that, you can however round the percentages to say 1 or max 2 decimals.

Its just to give a quick view of what the split.
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August 17, 2015, 07:03:43 PM
 #13

This is a very interesting concept, and it could be a new way of decentralized decision making. At the very least it's a good start.
arsenische
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August 29, 2015, 01:24:29 AM
 #14

Quote
Thanks for you suggestion! Do you suggest to display: "9.12659522 Ƀ Believe |  0.0001 Ƀ Doubt" as "9.12659522 Ƀ (0.998904313%) Believe | 0.0001 Ƀ (0.001095687%) Doubt" ?

Yes something like that, you can however round the percentages to say 1 or max 2 decimals.

Its just to give a quick view of what the split.

Thanks for your idea, I implemented it (see http://bitcoinocracy.com/arguments/bitcoin-future-should-be-decided-by-miners).

Also added friendly URLs, social buttons and other minor improvements.

This is a very interesting concept, and it could be a new way of decentralized decision making. At the very least it's a good start.

Thanks for your kind words. I hope to find volunteers to develop this project (to do programming, design, content creation). Still not sure whether it is useful.  Perhaps sometimes it could be an alternative to miners' voting or public discussions (that are often either censored, or have low signal-to-noise ratio).

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September 04, 2015, 07:10:09 AM
Last edit: September 04, 2015, 08:09:49 AM by arsenische
 #15

There were some votes on http://bitcoinocracy.com/arguments/bip101-is-better-than-bip100 -- so yes, some people use Bitcoinocracy to verifiably express their opinion.

Though there is an embarrassing bug that displays 0 balances and makes voting impossible when blockchain.info is down (as it is now). Hopefully it will be up soon and everything will be back to normal.
(fixed)

arsenische
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November 07, 2015, 03:39:31 AM
 #16

Bitcoin holders doubt that http://bitcoinocracy.com/arguments/bip101-is-better-than-bip100



But only ~0.00004% of bitcoins took part in this voting.

Is there a way to increase this share?

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November 08, 2015, 05:38:20 AM
 #17

Wow, somebody signed the statement with a bitcoin address that holds 30 btc (and helped to identify the bug with lack of unique constraint), thanks!



Frankly speaking I doubt it too. There was some interest, but it looks like it is insufficient to make any conclusions or the service needs to be improved with user accounts etc. If anybody wants to buy the domain - please let me know your offer.

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November 13, 2015, 04:11:26 PM
 #18

Wow, owners of 143.50137874 BTC support the idea, that's inspiring, thanks!



So what's the next step?

User accounts and bulk signing as proposed in https://github.com/arsenische/bitcoinocracy/issues/5 ?

Enable users to attach links (or even files?) to the arguments upon their creation?

Enable users to define the context (or scope) for the arguments upon their creation?

Integrate with twitter to automatically tweet the new arguments?

anything else?

arsenische
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November 24, 2015, 11:29:34 PM
 #19

Thanks to the author of the argument:

http://bitcoinocracy.com/arguments/this-site-should-filter-out-0-vote-entries-to-remove-spam-and-display-arguments-separately

--- I followed this suggestion to display arguments separately (and added pagination).

Not sure whether there is any sense in filtering out the 0-vote entries since they will be displayed in the end of the list (and eventually moved to the later pages). At the same time the new unvoted entries might benefit from being listed here.

New look:


arsenische
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December 08, 2015, 01:18:22 AM
 #20

oh, wow, big guys are voting! http://bitcoinocracy.com/


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