'The 'impossible' EmDrive could reach Pluto in 18 months' !!!

[ObscureBean]

The future is now this is a must-read for sci-fi/tech fans. Seriously.
It appears that scientists have accidentally developed tech that could potentially allow for faster space travel. As a reference, it took New Horizons over 9 years to reach Pluto 


'Last summer WIRED revealed that Nasa's Eagleworks Lab was testing a copy of the EmDrive, a propulsion device frequently labelled as "impossible" because it appears to violate the law of conservation of momentum. Against all expectation they found it produced thrust. The response from the scientific community was dramatic, and generally sceptical -- but the "anomalous thrust" stubbornly refuses to disappear as more research zeroes in on it.'

Read the full article here: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-07/24/emdrive-space-drive-pluto-mission

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[Lethn]

Oh, are those fuckers finally starting to admit they were wrong about the EMDrive?

[nydiacaskey01]

call me skeptical, but I still won't believe it until they put it into action. it's still just a theory.

[Lethn]

call me skeptical, but I still won't believe it until they put it into action. it's still just a theory.

Well that's the thing, I won't knock it until they build one and send it to space, but there are so called scientists who are debunking it before it even has a chance to be tested, now they're testing it, they're starting to have other ideas the hypocritical fucks. Also, I would like to point out the key is in the name 'EM' it uses electro magnetic waves not negative energy, it's basically a very very efficient engine that seems to be able run in a vacuum, but as usual people who know even less about science than I do are shitting on it or claiming it breaks the laws of physics when they don't even know them.

Here's the website of the inventor: http://emdrive.com/

Note: It looks like they've actually updated the website to show some real testing videos! nice!


Flight Test DEM 188 Results

Mean Thrusts 9.8gm
Maximum Velocity 2cm/sec
Flight Distance 185cm

That's not at all a large amount, however if you imagine how much it could be improved and what that would mean for space flight, you get the idea.

[ObscureBean]

it uses electro magnetic waves not negative energy, it's basically a very very efficient engine that seems to be able run in a vacuum ... claiming it breaks the laws of physics

It would seem enough knowledgeable people have had a go at this. I'm certainly no expert but I do believe this could be slightly more complex than a simple misunderstanding.
As per the article, Tajmar's research paper "Direct Thrust Measurements of an EmDrive and Evaluation of Possible Side-Effects" which will be released within the next day or so should provide better insight.

The 'claiming it breaks the laws of physics' has more to do with media exaggerations.

Anyway it's great that Roger Shawyer's work is getting the attention it deserves  

[Lethn]

I can understand if it's being criticised by actual scientists, but they're running proper tests on it and making sure it's legit and even they're saying it's a genuine piece of technology now. I'm getting fed up of these news journalists who think they're experts on everything, they do the exact same crap with Bitcoin, write blatantly false information as if it's correct and then pretend nothing happened afterwards.

[ridery99]

No Warp Drive Here: NASA Downplays 'Impossible' EM Drive Space Engine http://www.space.com/29363-impossible-em-drive-space-engine-nasa.html

[MakingMoneyHoney]

call me skeptical, but I still won't believe it until they put it into action. it's still just a theory.

....Also, I would like to point out the key is in the name 'EM' it uses electro magnetic waves not negative energy, it's basically a very very efficient engine that seems to be able run in a vacuum...

From people who seem to actually know what this is all about, would you think it might be possible, if they get enough energy put together to shoot it off (or attempt even a smaller test than that), could that cause a nuclear EMP disaster?

Putting America in the dark - Little has been done to protect the nation from an electromagnetic pulse

[Spendulus]

call me skeptical, but I still won't believe it until they put it into action. it's still just a theory.

....Also, I would like to point out the key is in the name 'EM' it uses electro magnetic waves not negative energy, it's basically a very very efficient engine that seems to be able run in a vacuum...

From people who seem to actually know what this is all about, would you think it might be possible, if they get enough energy put together to shoot it off (or attempt even a smaller test than that), could that cause a nuclear EMP disaster?

Putting America in the dark - Little has been done to protect the nation from an electromagnetic pulse

There is no relation between EMdrive and issues of EMP whatsoever.

[Spendulus]

it uses electro magnetic waves not negative energy, it's basically a very very efficient engine that seems to be able run in a vacuum ... claiming it breaks the laws of physics

It would seem enough knowledgeable people have had a go at this. I'm certainly no expert but I do believe this could be slightly more complex than a simple misunderstanding.
As per the article, Tajmar's research paper "Direct Thrust Measurements of an EmDrive and Evaluation of Possible Side-Effects" which will be released within the next day or so should provide better insight.

The 'claiming it breaks the laws of physics' has more to do with media exaggerations.

Anyway it's great that Roger Shawyer's work is getting the attention it deserves  

The best way to conceptualize EMdrive is to consider it similar to ion drive space engines, which have very low thrust but can sustain that thrust for years.  These are very efficient engines for many missions, however they will not do something like the job of getting men to the moon in three days.

[Lethn]

it uses electro magnetic waves not negative energy, it's basically a very very efficient engine that seems to be able run in a vacuum ... claiming it breaks the laws of physics

It would seem enough knowledgeable people have had a go at this. I'm certainly no expert but I do believe this could be slightly more complex than a simple misunderstanding.
As per the article, Tajmar's research paper "Direct Thrust Measurements of an EmDrive and Evaluation of Possible Side-Effects" which will be released within the next day or so should provide better insight.

The 'claiming it breaks the laws of physics' has more to do with media exaggerations.

Anyway it's great that Roger Shawyer's work is getting the attention it deserves  

The best way to conceptualize EMdrive is to consider it similar to ion drive space engines, which have very low thrust but can sustain that thrust for years.  These are very efficient engines for many missions, however they will not do something like the job of getting men to the moon in three days.

Ugh, I need to go and have a proper read of it again lol, either way you're right about it being like the ion drive, yes, even though the thrust is small it's very efficient. I think though even with engines like these, it will still be entirely capable of being improved to give the kind of speeds we'd expect.

[Spendulus]

it uses electro magnetic waves not negative energy, it's basically a very very efficient engine that seems to be able run in a vacuum ... claiming it breaks the laws of physics

It would seem enough knowledgeable people have had a go at this. I'm certainly no expert but I do believe this could be slightly more complex than a simple misunderstanding.
As per the article, Tajmar's research paper "Direct Thrust Measurements of an EmDrive and Evaluation of Possible Side-Effects" which will be released within the next day or so should provide better insight.

The 'claiming it breaks the laws of physics' has more to do with media exaggerations.

Anyway it's great that Roger Shawyer's work is getting the attention it deserves  

The best way to conceptualize EMdrive is to consider it similar to ion drive space engines, which have very low thrust but can sustain that thrust for years.  These are very efficient engines for many missions, however they will not do something like the job of getting men to the moon in three days.

Ugh, I need to go and have a proper read of it again lol, either way you're right about it being like the ion drive, yes, even though the thrust is small it's very efficient. I think though even with engines like these, it will still be entirely capable of being improved to give the kind of speeds we'd expect.

There are two things going on here.  First is the idea of a low thrust EM engine, which they are testing.  I'd love to have enough tech data to build one in the garage.  (It may well be there is enough, lol...)

Second is the assertion that this drive - UNLIKE ion engines - is scalable by many orders of magnitude.

(Third - I am discounting this - is the assertion that this is a "warp drive."  This is an interesting question, but a DIFFERENT question.  Shawyer refutes it is a warp drive.)

#1 seems factual.

#2 is certainly interesting, but there are caveats.  I'm not certain of a simple way to explain them.  You must think in terms of elliptical trajectories between gravitational bodies, moons and planets, and acceleration and deacceleration.  Consider a trip to Mars that is with a single pulse chemical rocket burn, 8 months.  Now ask what small, continual acceleration matches that chemical rocket burn.

You are now comparing a 4 month slight acceleration against perhaps a 6 minute high acceleration.  4x30x24x60 = 172,800 minutes.   6*2/172800 = about 0.00006 of the chemical rocket thrust will equal it's performance in the 8 month orbit.  So if you ask, can we do with the EM drive, 1/1000 of the thrust of the chemical rocket?  That's a HUGE DEAL - it reduces the 8 months transit time down to a few days.

But it is still a very, very low thrust engine.  However, when you consider the relative positions of Earth and Mars, and the fact that the limitations of position mean we can only launch to Mars about every 4 years - the EM drive at 1/1000 thrust completely eliminates that issue.  Launch anytime, to any of the planets.  Yes, within in few days.

1/1000 the thrust of a chemical rocket, think in terms of 1 to 100 pounds of thrust.  Current thrust of test EM unit, a fraction of a newton.  Hence the claim that a production EMdrive could do this job is NOT UNREASONABLE.

Very interesting....

[Wilikon]

it uses electro magnetic waves not negative energy, it's basically a very very efficient engine that seems to be able run in a vacuum ... claiming it breaks the laws of physics

It would seem enough knowledgeable people have had a go at this. I'm certainly no expert but I do believe this could be slightly more complex than a simple misunderstanding.
As per the article, Tajmar's research paper "Direct Thrust Measurements of an EmDrive and Evaluation of Possible Side-Effects" which will be released within the next day or so should provide better insight.

The 'claiming it breaks the laws of physics' has more to do with media exaggerations.

Anyway it's great that Roger Shawyer's work is getting the attention it deserves  

The best way to conceptualize EMdrive is to consider it similar to ion drive space engines, which have very low thrust but can sustain that thrust for years.  These are very efficient engines for many missions, however they will not do something like the job of getting men to the moon in three days.

Ugh, I need to go and have a proper read of it again lol, either way you're right about it being like the ion drive, yes, even though the thrust is small it's very efficient. I think though even with engines like these, it will still be entirely capable of being improved to give the kind of speeds we'd expect.

There are two things going on here.  First is the idea of a low thrust EM engine, which they are testing.  I'd love to have enough tech data to build one in the garage.  (It may well be there is enough, lol...)

Second is the assertion that this drive - UNLIKE ion engines - is scalable by many orders of magnitude.

(Third - I am discounting this - is the assertion that this is a "warp drive."  This is an interesting question, but a DIFFERENT question.  Shawyer refutes it is a warp drive.)

#1 seems factual.

#2 is certainly interesting, but there are caveats.  I'm not certain of a simple way to explain them.  You must think in terms of elliptical trajectories between gravitational bodies, moons and planets, and acceleration and deacceleration.  Consider a trip to Mars that is with a single pulse chemical rocket burn, 8 months.  Now ask what small, continual acceleration matches that chemical rocket burn.

You are now comparing a 4 month slight acceleration against perhaps a 6 minute high acceleration.  4x30x24x60 = 172,800 minutes.   6*2/172800 = about 0.00006 of the chemical rocket thrust will equal it's performance in the 8 month orbit.  So if you ask, can we do with the EM drive, 1/1000 of the thrust of the chemical rocket?  That's a HUGE DEAL - it reduces the 8 months transit time down to a few days.

But it is still a very, very low thrust engine.  However, when you consider the relative positions of Earth and Mars, and the fact that the limitations of position mean we can only launch to Mars about every 4 years - the EM drive at 1/1000 thrust completely eliminates that issue.  Launch anytime, to any of the planets.  Yes, within in few days.

1/1000 the thrust of a chemical rocket, think in terms of 1 to 100 pounds of thrust.  Current thrust of test EM unit, a fraction of a newton.  Hence the claim that a production EMdrive could do this job is NOT UNREASONABLE.

Very interesting....

You can build your very own emdrive in your garage... For cheap.


It looks like a lot of people around here are starting to experiment with building their own test rigs. This is super cool, and I can't wait to see everyone's results!
From what we've seen, building a test rig is a fairly straightforward process, that looks something like this:
Build a copper frustum.
Shoot some microwaves into it.
Drive your Em.
There are a lot of finer points to it than that, but it's not like you need a particle accelerator in your garage to build one of these or anything. It's reasonably cheap, and reasonably easy, which is why so many people are giving it a shot.
So, with that said, I really want to make sure everyone is as safe as possible, so you should read through this if you're considering building a drive. This is sort of a "how to avoid killing yourself" post, NOT any kind of encouragement to do anything dangerous. If you aren't very familiar with electricity, I'd recommend you stick to discussion, rather than jump straight into hands-on work.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EmDrive/comments/3eerc7/lets_talk_about_emdrive_safety_and_legality/

[criptix]

The paper of tajmar was already released yesterday.
there is stll no conclusive findings about the emdrive theory.
but atleast he could exclude some of the possible errors in the analysing method.
( the thrust does't seem to be a error of analysing method... so far)

Something very interesting.
the emdrives  needs up to 10 seconds to build up thrust and after disconnecting from power it needs up to 10 secs before the thrust vanishes.

/edit

Building a test device is not hard because you can buy the stuff you need for a relative small amount of money. the problem is the analysis of the thrust because they are on the micro scale. Also you might want to test in vacuum too so a vacuum chamber would be pretty neat.

Im not sure how save it is to increase the power input for home devices ^_+

[Wilikon]

The paper of tajmar was already released yesterday.
there is stll no conclusive findings about the emdrive theory.
but atleast he could exclude some of the possible errors in the analysing method.

Something very interesting.
the emdrives  needs up to 10 seconds to build up thrust and after disconnecting from power it needs up to 10 secs befire tje thrust vanishes.

Hmm.. Still thrust after disconnection? Interesting.

[Spendulus]

The paper of tajmar was already released yesterday.
there is stll no conclusive findings about the emdrive theory.
but atleast he could exclude some of the possible errors in the analysing method.

Something very interesting.
the emdrives  needs up to 10 seconds to build up thrust and after disconnecting from power it needs up to 10 secs befire tje thrust vanishes.

Hmm.. Still thrust after disconnection? Interesting.

Y I'm not seeing the physics behind that, you'd think some capacitive or tank circuit, but where?

RE danger of building these, maybe think of it as turning on a magnetron from a microwave.....with no microwave or it's shielding.....

Problem is of course, shielding, air, virtually everything affects measurement of thrust, except for nothing, which is the definition of a vaccuum.

So it's off to reddit time, to see what people are doing in their garages with this stuff.

[blablahblah]

The emdrive theory paper only shows results while "charging up" the cavity by pulsing the power on for 50 seconds, but not while discharging. My guess is that they're covering up a restoring force in the opposite direction when the power is removed. That could still be useful for satellites so they can make small adjustments without lossy propulsion systems, but they'll need to do better than that for transferring mass over long distances.

[BADecker]

Oh fun. Be in prison for 18 months there and 18 months back, and all the while that you are there.

Life's a beach.

[Lethn]

The paper of tajmar was already released yesterday.
there is stll no conclusive findings about the emdrive theory.
but atleast he could exclude some of the possible errors in the analysing method.

Something very interesting.
the emdrives  needs up to 10 seconds to build up thrust and after disconnecting from power it needs up to 10 secs befire tje thrust vanishes.

Hmm.. Still thrust after disconnection? Interesting.

Could that just be like a jet engine where everything is just cooling down? You have that a lot with electronic devices where there's heat etc. still going, hell, if it's that easy to build I might try it at some point, would be interesting to see if you can do experiments to get that thrust higher. I may not know a lot about the mathematical side of this, but I very much like the idea of tinkering and inventing, I need to get my own house before I can mess with that kind of stuff though, I also want to play around with electricity generation.

[Wilikon]

The paper of tajmar was already released yesterday.
there is stll no conclusive findings about the emdrive theory.
but atleast he could exclude some of the possible errors in the analysing method.

Something very interesting.
the emdrives  needs up to 10 seconds to build up thrust and after disconnecting from power it needs up to 10 secs befire tje thrust vanishes.

Hmm.. Still thrust after disconnection? Interesting.

Could that just be like a jet engine where everything is just cooling down? You have that a lot with electronic devices where there's heat etc. still going, hell, if it's that easy to build I might try it at some point, would be interesting to see if you can do experiments to get that thrust higher. I may not know a lot about the mathematical side of this, but I very much like the idea of tinkering and inventing, I need to get my own house before I can mess with that kind of stuff though, I also want to play around with electricity generation.

OK. like a jet engine... But in that case what is it pushing against? It is supposed to work in an absolute vacuum.

Playing with a microwave and try to boost its strength, while not isolated, may not be the best of ideas, even in your own home. Bitcoin needs everyone, especially the ones I do not agree with  You should let other non bitcoiners have all the fun on that one IMHO, especially if you have or want children