Grading Coins - A Few Basic Questions.

[m_rippon]

I have a few questions for those who are knowledgeable about the grading process.

Which companies grade crypto-coins? ANACS does and CGS in the UK but who else?

I understand that PCGS and ICG have refused to grade crypto-coins. Did they provide a rationale?

Would people grade coins from, say, Crypto Imperator or Microsoul?

Would you be suspicious if a Casascius coin came up for re-sale and had not been graded?

What difference does the grade make to the re-sale price? For example, what
would a rise from MS-63 to MS-66 achieve? Or from MS-67 to MS-68. Would a
Casascius MS-70 sell for vastly more than an MS-69?

Is it possible to receive an MS-70 grade?

Thanks!

Matthew

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[Quickseller]

I have a few questions for those who are knowledgeable about the grading process.

Which companies grade crypto-coins? ANACS does and CGS in the UK but who else?

AFAIK, they are the only reputable companies that will grade physical crypto coins. You should get it graded by ANACS though as they are much more reputable.

I understand that PCGS and ICG have refused to grade crypto-coins. Did they provide a rationale?

No clue. Blazedout419 probably knows.

I know that Mitchell sent emails to both last week and my understanding was essentially that they do not grade those coins.

Would you be suspicious if a Casascius coin came up for re-sale and had not been graded?

No however it would be possible that it would be a fake and the buyer may give additional scrutiny.

What difference does the grade make to the re-sale price? For example, what
would a rise from MS-63 to MS-66 achieve? Or from MS-67 to MS-68. Would a
Casascius MS-70 sell for vastly more than an MS-69?

A higher grade means the coin is in better condition. Better condition coins would naturally be in higher demand and coins become more rare as their condition approaches perfect condition (lower supply). Basic economics would imply that this mean prices would increase as the grade increases.

Is it possible to receive an MS-70 grade?

Thanks!

Matthew

Yes, however AFAIK no casascius coins have ever gotten a MS70 grade. I know that a lot of OgNasty's nasty fans coins have gotten very high grades, several MS68 and MS69 I believe. I would not be surprised if a MS70 pops up sometime.

[TookDk]

Would people grade coins from, say, Crypto Imperator or Microsoul?

ANACS will grade almost anything, including Crypto Imperator and Microsoul:



My sales thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1120743.0

[elianite]

Matthew

I'de like to formally introduce Matthew Rippon.

He is a Department Member of the Queens University of London, and is co-authoring the book which I am currently working on with him.

Mr. Rippon has gained a great interest in the physical crypto coin phenomenon, and contacted me to conduct an interview for an article he was writing for the International Journal of Entrepreneurship and Innovation. I have since had many discussions with him about the subject, to the point that he accepted my invitation to co-author the book which is an extension of my first work; The Casascius Guide.

As an up and coming academic, he has been conducting a thorough analysis of everything involving physical crypto coins, and will no doubt be asking many questions. With Matthew's, the book is being transformed from a simple catalogue to an intriguing work analysing the ideas, values, culture, and community behind the physical crypto coin phenomena and forming various theories about it.

Please, take a look at the book's sale thread at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1022071.0
Up to 100 physical copies will be printed, numbered, signed, and shipped to those with a reserved pre-order!

I'm sure everyone will find Matthew highly interesting to discuss the subject with.

[gentlemand]

What difference does the grade make to the re-sale price? For example, what
would a rise from MS-63 to MS-66 achieve? Or from MS-67 to MS-68. Would a
Casascius MS-70 sell for vastly more than an MS-69?

Is it possible to receive an MS-70 grade?

ANACS seems to have become the accepted standard for physical coins. I have a few and wouldn't bother getting them graded elsewhere.

I guess it's the comparative rarity of the super high grades that drives the price rather than the grades themselves. 1 BTC silver coins with MS68 or above seem to have sold for a big percentage higher than the 65/66 coins have.

[Pistachio]

ICG will grade these and a blind comparison showed that ANACS was comparable within 1 or 2 grades of ICG. I find ICG to be more consistent than ANACS (albeit on the higher end). Others here may disagree.

http://postimg.org/image/km5r29i2l/
http://postimg.org/image/wmr72zph9/
I can provide better pictures if needed.

[Possum577]

I have a few questions for those who are knowledgeable about the grading process.

Which companies grade crypto-coins? ANACS does and CGS in the UK but who else?

ANACS is in the US. And to my knowledge your list is correct. The challenge though is that ANACS is seen as a less reputable coin grading firm (although it's one of the oldest) compared to the others out there. I guess it doesn't matter much when they're one of two firms doing grading, or maybe their willingness to grade any crypto-coin reinforces the "less reputable" perception.

Some people swear that the hologram - it's condition, alignment on the coin, and the first bits alignment on the hologram (e.g., many on Casascius coins are crooked) - is not considered as part of the grade. I'm not convinced, given that these coins are rarely circulated so most would have a very high and same grade if not for variances in the hologram.

Maybe you could try to interview someone from ANACS to get a real understanding of how crypto-coin grading is perceived and conducted.

Good luck with the crypto-coin book!

[elianite]

I have a few questions for those who are knowledgeable about the grading process.

Which companies grade crypto-coins? ANACS does and CGS in the UK but who else?

Maybe you could try to interview someone from ANACS to get a real understanding of how crypto-coin grading is perceived and conducted.

This would be excellent

[Blazed]

Sorry I keep meaning to do this for the community, but always forget too. I have talked with ANACS and they agreed to answer questions we had for them. I will make the thread this evening and lay it all out about grading.

[m_rippon]

Some people swear that the hologram - it's condition, alignment on the coin, and the first bits alignment on the hologram (e.g., many on Casascius coins are crooked) - is not considered as part of the grade. I'm not convinced, given that these coins are rarely circulated so most would have a very high and same grade if not for variances in the hologram.

Maybe you could try to interview someone from ANACS to get a real understanding of how crypto-coin grading is perceived and conducted.

ANACS have an interesting Guide which explains how they grade coins. Of course, they do not mention anything about crypto-currency or holograms! They do state that, typically, the obverse of the coin is less important than the front. I suspect that this model cannot work for physical bitcoin since the front is not superior to the back.

Here is the Guide: http://www.anacs.com/PDFFiles/ANACS_Brochure.pdf (30 MB).

As I read the Guide, I thought that speaking with someone from ANACS would be useful. It's a great idea and I'll do it.

[Blazed]

Some people swear that the hologram - it's condition, alignment on the coin, and the first bits alignment on the hologram (e.g., many on Casascius coins are crooked) - is not considered as part of the grade. I'm not convinced, given that these coins are rarely circulated so most would have a very high and same grade if not for variances in the hologram.

Maybe you could try to interview someone from ANACS to get a real understanding of how crypto-coin grading is perceived and conducted.

ANACS have an interesting Guide which explains how they grade coins. Of course, they do not mention anything about crypto-currency or holograms! They do state that, typically, the obverse of the coin is less important than the front. I suspect that this model cannot work for physical bitcoin since the front is not superior to the back.

Here is the Guide: http://www.anacs.com/PDFFiles/ANACS_Brochure.pdf (30 MB).

As I read the Guide, I thought that speaking with someone from ANACS would be useful. It's a great idea and I'll do it.

I know for a fact that the hologram only comes into play if it has been removed. The grades depend strictly on the coin strike.

[BitcoinPenny]

Sorry I keep meaning to do this for the community, but always forget too. I have talked with ANACS and they agreed to answer questions we had for them. I will make the thread this evening and lay it all out about grading.

Really looking forward to this. Thanks, Blazed!

Regards,
Christopher

[mrbrt]

Does anyone pay for the $29 (flat fee per submission form) ANACS conservation option? Wondering if this is worth it or not.

[Blazed]

Hi there. I have acquired a few physical coins myself from different sources here, and am struggling with the ANACS paperwork. Can anyone suggest a thread or person who can help me out? I have the coins, the forms and blazedout419's example, but still need some help

Willing to pay some btc for help as well.

Cheers and thanks for any help at all - As a newbie physical coin addict, i'm just anxious to get mine in for grading, but really don't want to f*** it up!  

This is a good idea.
I know I have a few coins I want to submit and need a little help with the forms/mailing.

A thread could be started......

I have actually provided this service multiple times in the past (people shipped me their coins). If you guys want the forms filled out I will help you with it. Send me a PM with the coins you are having graded and I will make you an example form.

Send me the following:

Coin Type / year / face value / your fiat value of the coin  - Also some basic info for shipping (just either USA or not USA is all I need)

I will fill out a form for you.

I have started making my "how to grade crypto coin" thread - will post it soonish.

[monkeynuts]

Hi there. I have acquired a few physical coins myself from different sources here, and am struggling with the ANACS paperwork. Can anyone suggest a thread or person who can help me out? I have the coins, the forms and blazedout419's example, but still need some help

Willing to pay some btc for help as well.

Cheers and thanks for any help at all - As a newbie physical coin addict, i'm just anxious to get mine in for grading, but really don't want to f*** it up!  

Happy to help, if you need a hand

[monkeynuts]

<DUPLICATED POST FROM ANOTHER THREAD, BUT JUST TRYING TO SPREAD THE WORD>

I have just recieved a new grading form from ANACS. They wont be publishing it on their website for a week or 2, but they have given me the green light to share here. Its been talked about for a little while, but it has finally happened.

Its a bit special, in that they are recognising the physical crypto coins as their own distinct category on the submission forms. Thats a real step forward in my eyes ... mainstream here we come 

I cant let it pass without restating what a shame it is that ANACS will give us our own section, but the forum wont. (Mods, please take note)

I have put a copy of the form on PDFy
https://pdf.yt/d/vA7tlh6CBIvV23PJ
You can download, or print straight from there

The ANACS office manager has said
"They decided to go with the verbiage of “Physical Cryptocurrency” instead of “Private tokens and medals”, however these are the changes we discussed previously.  Max value of $100 per token. The only additional change is a max submission value for international orders of $5000.  Meaning the total value for the entire submission is capped at $5000 in insurance value."

Any discounted rates negotiated previously will also be honoured. But having a 'base rate' of $19 is also positive for submitting lower numbers of coins

Please feel free to use this, share this, and reference it in any other threads. Lets get this form out to those of us who do submit coins, return some of the faith that ANACS have placed in physical crypto.

It will be really interesting to see if given this change by ANACS, if any of the other big grading organisations take note, and reconsider their stance wrt cryptocoins


Matthew / Elianite
If you need any contacts in ANACS, or an intro, let me know


ALSO ....

If anyone in Europe needs any coins grading, I am happy to put in with the coins I ship there. The shipping there and back is the killer internationally, so needs to be spread between as many coins as possible (I do batches of 40 to spread the cost, whilst keeping risk down).
(Just PM me)

[Blazed]

Have they removed the economy options for grading bulk batches? If so we getting jacked for an extra $5 per coin! Used to be batches of 5+ got it for $14 + $7 per coin...now it is $19 + $7?

[monkeynuts]

Have they removed the economy options for grading bulk batches? If so we getting jacked for an extra $5 per coin! Used to be batches of 5+ got it for $14 + $7 per coin...now it is $19 + $7?

Is there a general price point per coin that you would not submit a coin due to the fees of grading/mailing/insuring??

$20 per coin plus shipping/insuring seems to be a little pricey (also now that it seems they removed the batch pricing)

So the new form says for physical cryptos the max value is $100 per coin......   
This low price point per coin seems that most of the cryptos we would want graded will be excluded.
What category to select then??

And if the category is "cryptocurrency" would this exclude any coin that does not have an area/recess for a private key??
since anything without this available to make a "wallet" would be considered a token??

Just some questions....

Thanks

You can submit cryptocoins of any value ... you just state a max value of $100 per coin as far as insurance cover goes

[BitcoinPenny]

And if the category is "cryptocurrency" would this exclude any coin that does not have an area/recess for a private key??
since anything without this available to make a "wallet" would be considered a token??

This is a great question, and I'd love to know ANACS' answer. How do they define "cryptocurrency?"

Technically, even the popular Casascius coins are simply tokens. After all, once the BTC is redeemed, the Casascius is no longer a wallet, but a mere collectible token [with the potential to become a wallet someday].

I wonder how ANACS views this?

Regards,
Me

[monkeynuts]

I have emailled them the questions here, and will let you know any responses I get