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Author Topic: MtGox fee to high? (0.65%)  (Read 7409 times)
MoonShadow
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June 02, 2011, 07:12:19 PM
 #21

Next you'll be one of those guys pissed off about the early adopters sitting on tens of thousands of coins for having the foresight to participate in this program.
i already am. its not because of greed.
its because i don't think its good for the economy that 10 people is sitting on 90% of the money(over estimate).
i think they should have many coins, but not as much as they have now.

They won't after you offer them enough to sell.  Problem solved!

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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kokjo
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June 02, 2011, 07:20:47 PM
 #22

Next you'll be one of those guys pissed off about the early adopters sitting on tens of thousands of coins for having the foresight to participate in this program.
i already am. its not because of greed.
its because i don't think its good for the economy that 10 people is sitting on 90% of the money(over estimate).
i think they should have many coins, but not as much as they have now.

They won't after you offer them enough to sell.  Problem solved!
I don't think they are buying. They are speculating.
im not socialist, but i think the people with the money, should also take the responsibility.
just like with the root account: "with great power, comes great responsibility"

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
Nefario
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June 02, 2011, 07:27:22 PM
 #23

Their money, they can do what they like with it. Burn it for all I care (can you burn bitcoins?).

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Hawkix
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June 02, 2011, 07:30:39 PM
 #24

Dude, you know what is the biggest problem? People like you who think they know how other people SHOULD (or later MUST) act.

If you think MtGox takes too much, use other exchange. Or, better, start your own new exchange taking just 0.05% as you proposed. You will be happy, maybe we, too. Better not ask how much robbery fee I had to shell out to my bank to accept EURO SEPA payment from MtGox and convert it to my local currency.

If you think some have too much Bitcoins, you should CPU-mined them last year. When the price of electricity was larger than what was their price.

Check Google Finance. You will see buying Apple stock in 2003 also could make a lot of people insanely rich nowadays. Should they now give a part to you?

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June 02, 2011, 07:32:02 PM
 #25

Their money, they can do what they like with it. Burn it for all I care (can you burn bitcoins?).

Yeah, burning Bitcoins is easy and ecological (no CO2 emissions at all). Simply delete your wallet.dat.

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madmaxx
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June 02, 2011, 07:39:58 PM
 #26

A few is also handy to discourage speed trades, which would make the whole BTC/USD course more volatile.
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June 02, 2011, 07:41:13 PM
 #27

Dude, you know what is the biggest problem? People like you who think they know how other people SHOULD (or later MUST) act.

If you think MtGox takes too much, use other exchange. Or, better, start your own new exchange taking just 0.05% as you proposed. You will be happy, maybe we, too. Better not ask how much robbery fee I had to shell out to my bank to accept EURO SEPA payment from MtGox and convert it to my local currency.

If you think some have too much Bitcoins, you should CPU-mined them last year. When the price of electricity was larger than what was their price.

Check Google Finance. You will see buying Apple stock in 2003 also could make a lot of people insanely rich nowadays. Should they now give a part to you?
you are wrong.

i have never said people MUST do something, and i never will. it their coins its them who decides what to do with them.
i DON'T want their coins.
i have never mined, and never will(except maybe try FPGA mining sometime, and then use is to do funny stuff on after)

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
kokjo
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June 02, 2011, 07:43:26 PM
 #28

Their money, they can do what they like with it. Burn it for all I care (can you burn bitcoins?).
it should be eazy:
get some gasoline.
put it on your pc.
take a ligther.
watch the stuff burn.

Cheesy

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
Clipse
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June 02, 2011, 07:52:39 PM
 #29

Their money, they can do what they like with it. Burn it for all I care (can you burn bitcoins?).
it should be eazy:
get some gasoline.
put it on your pc.
take a ligther.
watch the stuff burn.

Cheesy

Cheaper way exist, put your wallet on a cheap 64mb usb stick and burn it.

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kokjo
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June 02, 2011, 07:56:11 PM
 #30

Their money, they can do what they like with it. Burn it for all I care (can you burn bitcoins?).
it should be eazy:
get some gasoline.
put it on your pc.
take a ligther.
watch the stuff burn.

Cheesy

Cheaper way exist, put your wallet on a cheap 64mb usb stick and burn it.
oh. yes but then there is file recovery... its easier just to burn the whole computer.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
Hawkix
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June 02, 2011, 07:56:30 PM
 #31

you are wrong.

i have never said people MUST do something, and i never will. it their coins its them who decides what to do with them.
i DON'T want their coins.
i have never mined, and never will(except maybe try FPGA mining sometime, and then use is to do funny stuff on after)

Some of your quotes in this topic:

it might not be so high that it is a problem for you.
but i think MtGox should not take so much for it.

i dont like that! i think the fee should be around 0.05% its more fair. (it gives them a ~48.25btc/2day)

good point. but still 626btc/2day is way to much.

i think they should have many coins, but not as much as they have now.

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SgtSpike
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June 02, 2011, 07:59:33 PM
 #32

If you all don't want to see an MtGox, put your bitcoins where your mouth is!  Or, at least give me opinions on whether you'd be interested in collaborating to start up a competitor.
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11385
kokjo
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June 02, 2011, 08:01:16 PM
 #33

you are wrong.

i have never said people MUST do something, and i never will. it their coins its them who decides what to do with them.
i DON'T want their coins.
i have never mined, and never will(except maybe try FPGA mining sometime, and then use is to do funny stuff on after)

Some of your quotes in this topic:

it might not be so high that it is a problem for you.
but i think MtGox should not take so much for it.

i dont like that! i think the fee should be around 0.05% its more fair. (it gives them a ~48.25btc/2day)

good point. but still 626btc/2day is way to much.

i think they should have many coins, but not as much as they have now.

i can't see me trying to force MtGox to set a lower fee, im only suggesting that they should set a lower fee.

and im also suspecting that the last qoute you has takeing from me, you must have misread.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
kokjo
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June 02, 2011, 08:06:18 PM
 #34

If you all don't want to see an MtGox, put your bitcoins where your mouth is!  Or, at least give me opinions on whether you'd be interested in collaborating to start up a competitor.
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11385
i would like too, but i don't have the time.
I am still in school.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
comboy
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June 02, 2011, 08:45:52 PM
 #35

every time ther is traded 100 btc they earn 0.65 btc.
and there has been trading for around 96461 the last 2 days. it gives them 626 btc in fees in the last 2 days.
 
what do you think?

Actually I think it's twice that (1252BTC) because afaik 0.65% is taken from both sides (and for some kind of withdrawals possibly some % too). But I don't have any problem with that because:

  • you can easily code another market, convince people to use it and profit
  • you need to be aware however that one day, some goverment may ask you if you have <whatever is needed> and paid <whatever they want> for doing <whatever they think you should not>
  • not only gov, but any kind hacker can win quite a bit of a bounty if he gets on that server full of private keys, and that's a lot of risk
  • even though MagicalTux got Mt.Gox when it was already functional he still is an early adopter, I would like to own it now, but I would never thought of getting all these problems for myself, so it was like bitcoin - high risk and much to win
  • and he was in right place and right time with well earned knowledge and experience that were needed here

One thing I have mixed feelings about are dark pools. Knowing them gives one opportunity to earn a lot on trading bitcoins, especially that mtgox pretty much dictates current price.

Variance is a bitch!
sirius
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June 03, 2011, 12:56:17 AM
 #36

Just get a bank account with an API, start an exchange with lower fees and you'll surely attract a lot of users. Automated transfers are the key feature.

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tomcollins
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June 03, 2011, 01:16:25 AM
 #37

There's a pretty big incentive to make a competitor to Mt. Gox.  The trouble is getting one set up in a country that won't shut you down.  And then you get one running and start taking business from Mt. Gox, they lower their prices and run you out of business.  Good for the consumer, but it's enough to prevent someone from entering the market.  The other thing is, if you just start out, and you have lower fees, you will barely be able to make any money until you get significant volume.

I definitely would welcome a competitor to Mt. Gox.  One idea to get bootstapped would be to have a mix of Mt. Gox and your own market.  You keep a reserve of currency and Bitcoins at Mt. Gox.  If someone sets an order on your exchange, they get the option of filling it only at your site, or at both yours and Mt. Gox.  That way if the coins become available at Mt. Gox, they can get them, but they pay the higher fee.  If they become available at your site, you pay a lower fee.  The owner of the new site would just need to move money and Bitcoins around to Mt. Gox to be able to purchase at any point in time.
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June 03, 2011, 06:30:59 AM
 #38

MtGox is good for what it is, but it's unhealthy to have one dominant player. The Statists can temporarily disrupt the BTC economy if it got shut down. I really don't like paying 0.65%, but I can't build a competing exchange without diverting resources from more profitable ventures. When the incentives change, so will my behavior. Right now, nothing bitcoin-related is more profitable than buying and holding bitcoins.

the price is what the market will bear. 0.65% is not too high to buy a currency appreciating at a 200,000% annual rate.

insert coin here:
1Ctd7Na8qE7btyueEshAJF5C7ZqFWH11Wc

Open an exchange account at CampBX: options, lowest commissions, and best security
https://campbx.com/register.php?r=0Y7YxohTV0B
interfect
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June 03, 2011, 07:33:15 AM
 #39

There are already competing exchanges up. Look at the Bitcoin Watch Markets page: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/

Mt. Gox is at the top, but all the other listings are other markets, and there's a reasonable number for BTC/USD. Bitcoin Market seems to have a reasonable volume going at the moment, too.

The thing about Bitcoin is, if you think the people running Mt. Gox are too rich, and you'd be down with, say, government-mandated redistribution of wealth to reduce income inequality, then tough luck. You're the one who wanted the cryptographically secure cyber-currency, and you have to deal with the consequences.
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June 03, 2011, 11:54:10 AM
 #40

you are free to use other exchanges.
example : https://bitcoin-central.net/

Also free to start your own competing exchange and set the fees you think are right!
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