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Author Topic: [ Bonus PPS Pool - 130% PPS - OPEN ]  (Read 86002 times)
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January 22, 2012, 04:32:27 PM
 #1

POOL FUNDS UPDATE AND REIMBURSEMENT PROCESS :

After a week of negotiations surrounding this mess that I am fully to blame for, well aside from the fact BTCST should have paid out by now, I need to breakdown my plans on paying back all outstanding pool earnings.

Right now I still have private contracts to finish which would yield me the final payments on them as soon as they clear, these contracts are due for final payment by the end of September and the final amounts by the end of October which means the following:

1.) In order for me to get the remaining outstanding payments on the contract I need to keep the pool running with miners otherwise its clear that I wouldnt be able to finish these contracts which in return wouldnt pay me the final payments.
2.) All unpaid balances up to 29th of August for each miner will be paid out at total combined unpaid balance + 20% (this is an interest tax I am paying extra which would effectively be covered by my 20% market on sold contracts) and this will be paid out before/on September 30th.
3.) All unpaid balances between 29 August - 31 October will be paid out in full by the end of 31 October and I will be paying out at total unpaid balance + 30% which would effectively clear me out of BTC from contract earnings but also make good in total on all unpaid balances and earn some extra BTC for everyone(especially the users who likely hate me at this point)
4.) On the 31st of October if there is BTC still outstanding I will make good on that by buying the BTC so that everyone will be paid up in full on their past mining.
5.) Until this mess is cleared up by no later than October 31st, the new website is put on hold and if I can still have the trust of miners at that time after they see I made good on my promises I will launch the new website and take things forward from that point on. I have definitely learned out of this process and history wont repeat itself.
6.) At this point I am not making any BTC payouts, I know there is a few with small balances but when I start pick and choosing with not enough BTC at this point to payout to everyone this mess will just get more out of hand. All I can ask of everyone with balances is to remain calm and expect their full earnings paid out no later than the process above.
7.) Starting on the 29th of September I will place all miners on 130% PPS so that their earnings would allready reflect each week what they would receive at the end when I make the payouts.

All details above would be sorted out ahead of time if BTCST funds gets paid out before end of October and if BTCST payout ahead of time I will update the total extra interest to accomodate the earlier payouts but it will be in daily proportions on interest.

The plan above is to ensure that if BTCST doesnt payout before end of October or worst case never pays out then atleast I can get everyone their funds back even though it would cost me alot out of my pockets and all my contract profits in the process.

I accept responsibility for this loss since it was my stupidity which got us in this mess.

Now I need to ask from all miners to help me out at this point so that the pool doesnt grind to a halt and cause potentially even more problems with the above payouts considering it will work out as stated above as long as I can finish the running contracts which wont be a problem as long as miners continue to mine.

If you cant afford to wait such long periods for BTC payments as outlined above I would understand but if you can spare a portion of your regular mining power for the duration of this process it would go a long way to fix this situation.


I know some of you might ask me why cant I pay out the earnings since last friday when BTCST shutdown and the answre to that is actually quite simple, through the year I allways paid from my own personal BTC stash for the duration of contract and replenished my BTC stash as soon as the contracts were fully paid.

While a contract runs I direct my pool traffic to the bitcoind of the buyer so that they can have their clean virgin blocks and the buyer pays me in fiat, partially at the start of the contract and the majority at the end of the contract.

Now obviously I dont have my own BTC stash to make the regular payouts since I moved that to BTCST right before this whole BTCST shutdown occurred which left me dry and BTCless however I do have a good portion of fiat which I would move to buy BTC on the 31st of October for whatever outstanding balance still remains.

I am confident that if miners work together with me during this process they will come ahead with their extra percentages as stated above and I would be able to make good on the outstanding balances.


Id like to keep this thread unlocked but due to all the delays and problems caused by the BTCST shutdown I really dont want a thread full of spam stating the very obvious such as, "How could you be so stupid" etc. , I have outlined my plan of reimbursement and I will stick to that and if miners work together with me on this it would run according to plan and problably even faster.

I really appreciate the fact that a big group of miners have kept their calm through this even though its a difficult situation.

Feel free to get back onto the pool with either your full hashrate or partial hashrate if you are happy with the process outlined above, the more hashing power I have on the pool the sooner I can finish the outstanding contracts.

Email/PM me in the meantime if you wish to talk more about the process, I can unfortunately not change what have happened and the only solution right now is the process outlined above so please when you contact me there is no point asking me for payouts etc. since I will not be able to give you a earlier payout date even if I wanted.

For those of you who want to make use of the higher PPS rates I will be paying you are welcome to signup with the normal details and help out during this process of reimbursement.


Sign-up :                                                

Send me a PM on this forum with the following details : (If you were mining the week before before the changes, you dont need to apply again)

  • Subject: Bonus PPS Pool - Public BETA Signup
  • Gh: maximum hashrate you would point at Bonuspool.
  • Email: so I can email you the pool details.
  • BTCwallet: so I can pay you.



...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
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January 22, 2012, 07:27:29 PM
 #2

I don't understand how this works. How are you selling the coins mined and at the same time as giving them to miners at over 100%?

Losing hundreds of Bitcoins with the best scammers in the business - BFL, Avalon, KNC, HashFast.
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January 22, 2012, 07:33:35 PM
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I have my own mining farm thats been running since last year June currently at 50Gh so the extra 10-15% coins paid to miners would come from my own mined coins.

The other alternative to get coins and sell locally would be to buy at mtgox however that would make for alot more hassles at the same time since I would need to keep $ on mtgox to off-set buying coins and then eventually move the $ back to my local bank.

This is the best way for me to get alot of bitcoins to sell locally and keep my money locally while only dealing with bitcoins online.

In fact this was a good question so I am going to add it to OP FAQ.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
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January 22, 2012, 09:50:12 PM
 #4

I have my own mining farm thats been running since last year June currently at 50Gh so the extra 10-15% coins paid to miners would come from my own mined coins.

The other alternative to get coins and sell locally would be to buy at mtgox however that would make for alot more hassles at the same time since I would need to keep $ on mtgox to off-set buying coins and then eventually move the $ back to my local bank.

This is the best way for me to get alot of bitcoins to sell locally and keep my money locally while only dealing with bitcoins online.

In fact this was a good question so I am going to add it to OP FAQ.

I am pretty sure this still doesn't make any sense.  As a pool operator, you are losing coins.  How does this help you sell coins?  Wouldn't you just be better of selling your already mined coins? 

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January 22, 2012, 09:54:13 PM
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I have my own mining farm thats been running since last year June currently at 50Gh so the extra 10-15% coins paid to miners would come from my own mined coins.

The other alternative to get coins and sell locally would be to buy at mtgox however that would make for alot more hassles at the same time since I would need to keep $ on mtgox to off-set buying coins and then eventually move the $ back to my local bank.

This is the best way for me to get alot of bitcoins to sell locally and keep my money locally while only dealing with bitcoins online.

In fact this was a good question so I am going to add it to OP FAQ.

I am pretty sure this still doesn't make any sense.  As a pool operator, you are losing coins.  How does this help you sell coins?  Wouldn't you just be better of selling your already mined coins? 
This is a pretty standard business model, bitcoin or not.  Sacrifice some profit at the start to get your name.

This isn't the first pool to use this model, nor will it likely be the last.

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January 22, 2012, 10:18:37 PM
 #6

I have my own mining farm thats been running since last year June currently at 50Gh so the extra 10-15% coins paid to miners would come from my own mined coins.

The other alternative to get coins and sell locally would be to buy at mtgox however that would make for alot more hassles at the same time since I would need to keep $ on mtgox to off-set buying coins and then eventually move the $ back to my local bank.

This is the best way for me to get alot of bitcoins to sell locally and keep my money locally while only dealing with bitcoins online.

In fact this was a good question so I am going to add it to OP FAQ.

I am pretty sure this still doesn't make any sense.  As a pool operator, you are losing coins.  How does this help you sell coins?  Wouldn't you just be better of selling your already mined coins?  

Ok let me explain. Right now I have just over 5000BTC backorder(a list of 200people and growing) that want to buy from me with local South African Rand (ZAR) however if I sold them my own mined coins it would take a month if not a bit more with growing difficulty to reach that total and by then the price could easily have decreased/increased according to the USD exchange rate.

If I get together the 100GH+(which would be ideal) it would allow me to clear the backorder of BTC obviously alot earlier and not to mention the faster I get these coins cleared and sold to the interested parties the sooner more orders would get placed.

Fact of the matter, the faster I can get coins without having to buy them with a ton of my own cash moved to a exchange and back, the better for me and my clients.

Lastly, I am not taking any loss on this since I am selling the coins at a higher price that covers the 10-15% that I pay for miners plus some profit for me. This is a legitimate business opportunity and I have buyers but now I need coins Smiley

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
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January 22, 2012, 10:39:17 PM
 #7

It still doesn't make much sense to me

lets say the pool mines 50BTC and the exchange rate at mtgox is 6
you sell the 50BTC to a client for 400$
now you need to pay 55BTC to the miners
you still need to put 330$ in the mtgox exchange to get them and pay the miners
making a profit of 70$

if you buy directly from mtgox you pay 300$ usd for the 50BTC
sell them for 400$
making a profit of 100$

I think it only makes sense if you didnt have the 400$ in the firstplace
basically using the miners to loan money at a 10% rate
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January 22, 2012, 10:43:23 PM
 #8

Costia, read here to find out about some other pools that used the same model

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60555.0

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January 22, 2012, 10:45:46 PM
 #9

It still doesn't make much sense to me

lets say the pool mines 50BTC and the exchange rate at mtgox is 6
you sell the 50BTC to a client for 400$
now you need to pay 55BTC to the miners
you still need to put 330$ in the mtgox exchange to get them and pay the miners
making a profit of 70$

if you buy directly from mtgox you pay 300$ usd for the 50BTC
sell them for 400$
making a profit of 100$

I think it only makes sense if you didnt have the 400$ in the firstplace
basically using the miners to loan money at a 10% rate

Not sure what I posted that didnt make sense to you.

First of all, I said that I am selling the coins locally at a price above the extra 15% maximum we pay ontop of normal 100% PPS.

The lower the market price ie. right now its <$10 the higher percentage I can resell to local buyers to make up for the extra 10-15% I pay on PPS payouts.

Here is a basic example, right now the price is ~$6.40 on average day and that converted to Rand is ~R51.20 so if I resell each bitcoin at 20% markup its R61.44 per bitcoin to local buyers. Now you can imagine at 20% the higher the current price the less likely for buyers to accept the markup thus the sooner I clear orders before we somehow reach $10+ ranges the better for me, my buyers and the PPS miners.

Regarding the extra 5BTC per block, I run 50GH of my own mining in a farm thats completely seperate from this, I would be funding the excess 5BTC per 50BTC block out of this mining.

In a month my 50GH could compensate realisticly up to 450GH of PPS miners going at avg rate of 112% even though most users would probably only fall into 110% PPS.

Hopefully it is clear to you(and anyone else) now why I wouldnt need to buy the extra BTC with $.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
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January 23, 2012, 12:38:51 AM
 #10

I think where the confusion comes from is OP leads me to believe this is not to promote a new pool but to generate coins to sell to locals at a nice profit. In which case it seems a bit backwards to use others hashing power. If I had local demand like that, I would be buying more GPU's to mine coins below market rate, not offering to pay above market rate for hashing. Or is your elec rate too high?

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January 23, 2012, 12:49:09 AM
 #11

I think where the confusion comes from is OP leads me to believe this is not to promote a new pool but to generate coins to sell to locals at a nice profit. In which case it seems a bit backwards to use others hashing power. If I had local demand like that, I would be buying more GPU's to mine coins below market rate, not offering to pay above market rate for hashing. Or is your elec rate too high?

Again I urge you to read my last post, this is meant to resell coins and not to act as a general purpose pool.

I really cant make it much clearer, please read my last response I typed specificly to you.

If you still dont understand well I dont think you will :/

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
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January 23, 2012, 01:12:29 AM
 #12

I understand, I just think your selling yourself short here. You should be pointing your hashing power to a 110% pps pool and selling those coins 20% above market. I "paid" $2.30/BTC last month.  If I had people in line to pay 20% over market for them, Newegg would have empty shelves.

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January 23, 2012, 01:14:40 AM
 #13

Quote
Hopefully it is clear to you(and anyone else) now why I wouldnt need to buy the extra BTC with $.
I wasnt talking about the extra BTC. you cant sell the 50BTC to locals and use it to pay the PPS (without the extra)
You will have to buy 50BTC to pay the PPS to the miners
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January 23, 2012, 01:21:24 AM
 #14

Quote
Hopefully it is clear to you(and anyone else) now why I wouldnt need to buy the extra BTC with $.
I wasnt talking about the extra BTC. you cant sell the 50BTC to locals and use it to pay the PPS (without the extra)
You will have to buy 50BTC to pay the PPS to the miners

Huh ? Ok I think the problem here is that not all of what I typed in responses is being read or something. Right now I have had 50GH for a long time thus I also have a ton of BTC saved up which would be my buffer as I move forward with this and perhaps this is where it didnt make sense to you however I figured you would have grasped that from me posting about my own mining farm, my bad.

So what would happen is, users mine and I pay them every Wednesday and Saturday either from my own stash or directly from the mined poolmined stash however I would only be selling coins every 7days to the local buyers. Ive solved the logistics around it so thanks for your concern however you dont have to worry about how I would stay afloat Wink

Its late and I am half asleep right now but hopefully this clears up the confusion you had over where the BTC comes from Wink


...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
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January 23, 2012, 01:23:54 AM
 #15

I understand, I just think your selling yourself short here. You should be pointing your hashing power to a 110% pps pool and selling those coins 20% above market. I "paid" $2.30/BTC last month.  If I had people in line to pay 20% over market for them, Newegg would have empty shelves.

How many rigs do you have in your mining farm? Trust me when you move to 50GH or more its worth your sanity to look for alternative ways to minimise on maintainance while still making a profit out of bitcoins. Regarding newegg, stop thinking everyone is american hehe, we dont pay close to newegg prices for GPU's in South Africa, so that example is rather pointless.

Thats not all though, there is absolutely no gaurantee I would have the same BTC buyer request every single month, this could be a once off thing or it could be a longterm thing however while its on the table I want to maximise the potential and at the same time by using the hashing power of others I compensate them well.

Regarding the 110% PPS pool, show me where it is since that is something only I am offering on this forum. Making up some solution that doesnt exist doesnt make much sense to give a reason for why I am selling myself short :/

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
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January 23, 2012, 02:20:09 AM
 #16

110% PPS means you have to pay 55BTC for every 50BTC mined by the pool
you will still have to buy btc for $

lets say you have 1Kbtc and an order for 5K
the miners mine 5K - now you have 6K BTC and owe the miners 5.5K
you sell the 5K at +20% - now you have 1K BTC and local currency
you can pay 1KBTC from your stash. now you owe the miners 4.5K
I see no way of getting those BTC except for converting local currency to $ and then to BTC
If you wait until they mine another 4.5K BTC - you will owe them additional 4950BTC for that
so it will be 4.5-4.5+4.95 -> now you owe them 4.95K instead of 4.5K

The only advantage of this is if you don't have the $ to buy the 4K in the first place.
This means you are borrowing 4K BTC from the miners until you sell it locally , and then pay them from that money.
Otherwise you could have bought the 4K and kept the entire 20% of profit to yourself.

Can you write a chronological chain of events of what you are planning(similar to what i did, 1 transaction per line with updated totals)?
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January 23, 2012, 02:50:40 AM
 #17

hehe this is getting over complicated but just for you here goes.

1.) I have >1000BTC in my private stash right now and my own $ on mtgox.
2.) Users mine at the 110-115% PPS and they get paid from all the mined coins + 10-15% from my own mined coins using my mining farm hardware(not from my stash)
3.) At the end of the week I sell the first batch of coins locally from my own stash (for argument sakes lets say its 1000BTC)
4.) Now I have 0BTC left in stash and each week I would still recoup my stash from my own 50GH mining farm minus 10-15% of the earnings paid to the 110%+ PPS payouts.
5.) Now that I sold I would now go to mtgox and only have to transfer enough to buy the difference to get back to (for argument sake) 1000BTC in my stash.


What I am avoiding here is not having to go to mtgox straight away and buy 5000BTC or more in one go which would require obviously a huge cash deposit which would get flagged to hell and back by my reserve bank and a ton of extra headaches and stress to deal with having such a huge brick of cash on an exchange. Market price doesnt affect me, only my buyers so if the price do suddenly move up I can confirm a new price with them and if they dont agree to it the deal is done for the time being.

The way I am going about this PPS offer is to minimise financial risk to myself, be 100% sure that I can get the sales for BTC requests atleast every 7days locally and if something doesnt work out I can give atleast 48hr notice to the PPS miners that I would not be able to continue with this offer and they should move back to ordinary pools at specific date.

Ive never said that there would never be BTC bought by myself. The only point I made is that the local buyers do not want to move funds to foreign exchanges and thats the reason why I have the option of offering this, what I then do to make it work is actually besides the point.

What you assumed right of the bat is that as soon as coins get mined I dump it to local buyers, never did I state such a thing since to me it made no sense to even suggest something like that.

Now can you please tell me it made more sense, I did not feel the need to bulletpoint a 100 steps since you are still stuck at me borrowing BTC from the miners but hopefully you get to grips now. Making your own assumptions of the process of delivery of coins to local buyers is definitely the biggest problem explaining all of this and what seems to be either a personal business methodology or simply unneccesary to explain may be the whole reason for talking around each other.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
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January 23, 2012, 12:18:06 PM
 #18

Where is the server located? (concern about stales/rejects)

Are you actually counting submitted shares? (any front-end for users to confirm)

If not and paying the rate mentioned how do you address potential downtime from a single GPU or two?

Thanks!


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January 23, 2012, 12:42:48 PM
 #19

Where is the server located? (concern about stales/rejects)

Are you actually counting submitted shares? (any front-end for users to confirm)

If not and paying the rate mentioned how do you address potential downtime from a single GPU or two?

Thanks!



1. Server located in UK and typically expect <1% rejects so with the going rate of even 110% its still plenty more profitable.

2. On launch(1 February) we will have a very minimalistic interface to look at current earnings which would evolve as time goes by(all depends how long and how succesfull we can keep this going) As it stands we are only confident in offering this for the month of February so investing alot of extra time to create fancy graphing and other userfriendly tools would just not be worth the effort however if we get additional backorders of BTC during February we will extend this until orders dry up.

3. We will have 2 checks in place, users going at the base rate of 110% will be contacted every Sunday in case their 7day cycle were less than 1GH on avg to let them know that they should make plans to stay at or above 1GH to keep using the service. Users going at the 111%+ rates would get paid out at the bonus rates depending on what they their average rate would be after the 7day cycle.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
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January 23, 2012, 12:55:27 PM
 #20

Thanks for the info - should be over 6 GH/s by Feb 1  Grin

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