Bitcoin Forum
December 07, 2016, 06:35:53 PM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Illegal content in the blockchain  (Read 21920 times)
indio007
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210


View Profile
July 21, 2011, 04:38:43 AM
 #41

Oh ya ignorance of a foreign law is an excuse as well.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
MaGNeT
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1050


Founder of Orlycoin | O RLY? YA RLY!


View Profile WWW
July 21, 2011, 06:24:19 AM
 #42

I thought we had a newbie section for newbies... How did this guy get in here?
indicasteve
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140



View Profile WWW
July 21, 2011, 06:33:57 AM
 #43

(.)Y(.)   <----  My password. 

I'm storing pron on every website I log into!

edit: oh dam...now everyone knows my password....

Art Express!  Native American Art, Crafts and Weapons!  coingig.com/ArtExpress
johanatan
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84


View Profile
July 21, 2011, 07:43:32 AM
 #44

you do know that you get convicted if some website loads some child porn in some invisible iframe without you knowing if the cops can find it in your browser cache? Or, to take it somewhere offline, that you get convicted if you buy something off ebay and when you try to register it to your name and it happens to come out that it was stolen.
You do know that in most jurisdictions, receiving stolen property requires the keyword: "knowingly"?

How are you going to prove your own 'ignorance'?  Prove the non-existence of your knowledge.  Good luck with that.

All it takes is some prosecutor who thinks he can convincingly prove that you did 'know' to cause a lot of trouble for you (even if you ultimately win).

1GjRUzZfDCBHeCyJk6av3pXYS9VKjCvQTQ
giantdragon
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414



View Profile
July 21, 2011, 11:38:39 AM
 #45

In most countries prosecutor must prove that you was acting illegally (i.e. knew that property was stolen). This is almost impossible, so it is very, very rare when reseller of stolen goods get imprisoned.

There is flea market in Riga, anyone knows that vast majority of goods selling there are stolen (auto radios, cell phones, bicycles etc.). But I can't mention even one person who was imprisoned for this activity. Police regularly make raids, but just confiscate items that legitimate owner described or told serial number.

makomk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686


View Profile
July 21, 2011, 11:50:50 AM
 #46

To make the example more clear:
1. Let X = illegal file
2. Let Y = completely random bitstring of same length as X
3. Let Z = X xor Y
4. Post Y on one server, say a google blog.  Post Z on another, say a wordpress blog.

Now observe the following: Y is a totally random string, so clearly it contains no information about X.  What about Z?  Well think about it: if I take some fixed string X and XOR it with a totally random string, what do I get?  I get another totally random string.  So Z is also a totally random string, containing no information about X either.

So now we have two servers both storing totally random strings.  Clearly, neither is illegal alone.  But their XOR is illegal.  Who commited a crime, other than the uploader?
Does either of them have a purpose other than being able to be recombined to reconstruct the original illegal file? If not, what's to stop the courts from ordering both to be removed? (Obviously if one of them does have a purpose other than being able to be used to reconstruct the illegal file, the other one must contain the information about said illegal file; due to the way the two files have to be constructed it's impossible for both of them to have been created for another purpose.)

Quad XC6SLX150 Board: 860 MHash/s or so.
SIGS ABOUT BUTTERFLY LABS ARE PAID ADS
xlcus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518



View Profile
July 21, 2011, 12:31:12 PM
 #47

To make the example more clear:
1. Let X = illegal file
2. Let Y = completely random bitstring of same length as X
3. Let Z = X xor Y
4. Post Y on one server, say a google blog.  Post Z on another, say a wordpress blog.

Now observe the following: Y is a totally random string, so clearly it contains no information about X.  What about Z?  Well think about it: if I take some fixed string X and XOR it with a totally random string, what do I get?  I get another totally random string.  So Z is also a totally random string, containing no information about X either.

So now we have two servers both storing totally random strings.  Clearly, neither is illegal alone.  But their XOR is illegal.  Who commited a crime, other than the uploader?
Does either of them have a purpose other than being able to be recombined to reconstruct the original illegal file? If not, what's to stop the courts from ordering both to be removed? (Obviously if one of them does have a purpose other than being able to be used to reconstruct the illegal file, the other one must contain the information about said illegal file; due to the way the two files have to be constructed it's impossible for both of them to have been created for another purpose.)
They could both have another purpose.

Let P = Public domain file 1
Let Q = Public domain file 2
Let R = Y xor P
Let S = Z xor Q

Host R and S on other separate websites.


Now we have the situation where Y and Z have a legitimate purpose, since...

Y xor R produces P
Z xor S produces Q

Faircoin, the coin of the fair economy
Check https://www.fair.coop The Earth cooperative to create a new economic system, based in global fairness
timsmith
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 27


View Profile
July 21, 2011, 02:43:31 PM
 #48

Someone should write a program that interprets random chunks of the blockchain as bitmap data, and see what pops out.
This sounds like the Bible Code. If you take a large pseudo-random data source, apply thousands of analysis functions over it, and apply a liberal dose of interpretation to the results, you'll undoubtedly end up with "meaningful data". It's like Rorschach blobs.

I suspect if you make images out of the block chain data, you'll probably find at least 4 or 5 vaguely plausible pictures. The problem is finding them amongst the 10 million random noise pictures.
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 21, 2011, 03:21:52 PM
 #49

Someone should write a program that interprets random chunks of the blockchain as bitmap data, and see what pops out.
This sounds like the Bible Code. If you take a large pseudo-random data source, apply thousands of analysis functions over it, and apply a liberal dose of interpretation to the results, you'll undoubtedly end up with "meaningful data". It's like Rorschach blobs.

I suspect if you make images out of the block chain data, you'll probably find at least 4 or 5 vaguely plausible pictures. The problem is finding them amongst the 10 million random noise pictures.


And in the meantime, You get a nice screensaver with random colors and shapes

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
DonnyCMU
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 143



View Profile
July 21, 2011, 07:19:37 PM
 #50

To OP,
Please remove the word 'Thai' from your name.
It is a disgrace to my country.
film2240
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994


Professional filmmaker/Freelance videographer


View Profile WWW
July 21, 2011, 07:43:38 PM
 #51

Wait a minute man.How can you be so damn sure that blockchains can hold 'illegal' content that can throw me in jail?I don't understand much about cryptography or code cracking but what ind of 'illegal' data are we talking about here.The odd stray bits? or something bigger than that?

I'd love to know how UK law handles this as Im based in UK.If anyone knows please tell me.

I've got these questions for you:
1.how do you find or 'sniff' the 'illegal' data from a block chain?
2.How can running a BTC client (or miner) cause legal issues for me?
3.Is this a big problem?or something I can ignore (for a bit)?
4.What legal issues can this cause me? and can they be serious?
5.How can law enforcement and the like reconstruct the file,trace it back to you and throw u in da slammer?

Thanks

[This signature is available for rent]
[This signature is available for rent]
[This signature is available for rent]
[This signature is available for rent]
gnaget
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112


View Profile
July 21, 2011, 07:57:39 PM
 #52

Quote
1.how do you find or 'sniff' the 'illegal' data from a block chain?
I guess the easiest way is to encode data in the amounts or in the addresses.  The amounts would cost more, but the addresses would cost more cpu.  Either way it is only an intellectual exercise

Quote
2.How can running a BTC client (or miner) cause legal issues for me?
It can't

Quote
3.Is this a big problem?or something I can ignore (for a bit)?
It's irrelevant, OP is only a troll, or completely delusional if he actually means this as a threat

Quote
4.What legal issues can this cause me? and can they be serious?
None

Quote
5.How can law enforcement and the like reconstruct the file,trace it back to you and throw u in da slammer?
If they know how data is encoded, it can be decoded. 

Quote
Thanks
You're welcome
film2240
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994


Professional filmmaker/Freelance videographer


View Profile WWW
July 21, 2011, 08:14:33 PM
 #53

Thanx 4 the gr8 reply gnaget.Saved me a lot of worry.and yes I find that trolls are really annoying.They spread crap (info) everywhere and they confuse people (like me as well).Then they wonder why we get so pissed off with them.(Serves them right too)

[This signature is available for rent]
[This signature is available for rent]
[This signature is available for rent]
[This signature is available for rent]
TiagoTiago
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 616


Firstbits.com/1fg4i                :Ƀ


View Profile
July 21, 2011, 08:56:58 PM
 #54

(.)Y(.)   <----  My password. 

I'm storing pron on every website I log into!

edit: oh dam...now everyone knows my password....


Only in unsafe sites; sites that do it right don't store your password, they store a salted hash.

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

Wanna gimme some BTC for any or no reason? 1FmvtS66LFh6ycrXDwKRQTexGJw4UWiqDX Smiley

The more you believe in Bitcoin, and the more you show you do to other people, the faster the real value will soar!

Do you like mmmBananas?!
TiagoTiago
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 616


Firstbits.com/1fg4i                :Ƀ


View Profile
July 21, 2011, 08:59:57 PM
 #55

Thanx 4 the gr8 reply gnaget.Saved me a lot of worry.and yes I find that trolls are really annoying.They spread crap (info) everywhere and they confuse people (like me as well).Then they wonder why we get so pissed off with them.(Serves them right too)
They don't wonder why people get pissed at them, they know it; it's because they made them get pissed at them, that is their goal from the start...

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

Wanna gimme some BTC for any or no reason? 1FmvtS66LFh6ycrXDwKRQTexGJw4UWiqDX Smiley

The more you believe in Bitcoin, and the more you show you do to other people, the faster the real value will soar!

Do you like mmmBananas?!
elggawf
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 308



View Profile
July 21, 2011, 09:22:08 PM
 #56

How are you going to prove your own 'ignorance'?  Prove the non-existence of your knowledge.  Good luck with that.

Criminal justice: You're doing it wrong.

^_^
burp
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98


View Profile
July 21, 2011, 09:27:15 PM
 #57

This thread reminds me of http://www.angio.net/pi/piquery

natman3400
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98

firstbits: 1nathana


View Profile
July 21, 2011, 09:58:01 PM
 #58

Consider this situation:
Person A decides to sell off his old hard drive. Before he sells it, he makes some "random" data by making a disk image the size of the drive full of kiddie porn and then encrypts it with 20 minutes of 'cat /dev/urandom'. After this he then uses 'dd' to copy the raw encrypted data to the drive, effectively wiping his data (assuming the new owner knows nothing beyond foremost, but if he didn't feel secure, he could just do this multiple times with different keys) in the process. Lets also say he only had a 10gb collection of kiddie porn, so he just repeated it 8 times (assuming an 80gb drive). Person A then sells this drive to person B. After only putting 15gb or so on the drive, person B, not knowing deleted files can be recovered easily, just reinstalls windows (using quick format to boot!), and sells the drive to person C, unknowingly having distributed 6 good copies of person A's kiddie porn collection. Then, person C having been a friend to person A, and knowing the key, reports person C for possession and distribution of kiddie porn. Do we charge person B with possession and distribution? Probably not, but in the off chance we do we also have to charge person c, it would be like charging some one with dealing because there was cocaine residue on there dollar bill that they exchanged for bitcoins. If they do charge them, will they case get past a jury? Hell no, there is something called a reasonable doubt that he knew that he was selling the kiddie porn with the drive.

It is pretty much the same thing here folks.

Support the BitClip project:
http://bit.ly/vghQFK
Donate to bitclip: 1BCincd4sHM1ou5QcxZ4vc4hKzsxXCpQT
Dontate to me: 1NathanAubdutd4kW4VwfcEXEWvgkqEq7V
PGP key 1: http://goo.gl/TUIWe
PGP key 2: http://goo.gl/jrfaI
Proof both keys belong to me: http://goo.gl/dQSHl
phillipsjk
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1008

Let the chips fall where they may.


View Profile WWW
July 21, 2011, 10:52:45 PM
 #59

Person A decides to sell off his old hard drive. Before he sells it, he makes some "random" data by making a disk image the size of the drive full of kiddie porn and then encrypts it with 20 minutes of 'cat /dev/urandom'.

You lost me here. Isn't /dev/urandom a one-way function?

I recently bought a 500GB hard-drive used. Spent 25 hours overwriting it with /dev/urandom (CPU bound). I then spent 5 hours overwriting with /dev/zero (I/O Bound).

Without the "Key" you can't prove whether something is data or meaningless noise.

James' OpenPGP public key fingerprint: EB14 9E5B F80C 1F2D 3EBE  0A2F B3DE 81FF 7B9D 5160
hashcoin
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 122


View Profile
July 21, 2011, 10:54:58 PM
 #60

The issue is not just storing it unknowingly; for that, it would seem extremely unlikely one could be prosecuted(but IANAL not legal advice etc).  The problem is if you are told you are storing it, you now know it and must delete it.  But it is completely unreasonable to erase bitcoin history, because it is needed for verification.

In other words, this problem won't arise in other contexts because you either don't know about it, or have deleted it.  But here, even if we are told about it, we can't delete it or the whole network breaks.
 
One solution is txs can be blacklisted as bad: nodes won't store them anymore and just reject all TX spending them.  But this will fork the chain.

It might be worth asking EFF about this.
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!