The Future of BTC Poker

[patt0]

This wouldn't work at all, most sites won't agree to be a part of this and it will fail, the poker cut of the house isn't that much in the first place and they wouldn't want it to be distributed. The future of BTC Poker is bright but all the players who are interested in playing Poker and not just the freerolls will probably choose 1-2 sites which gets more crowd and they will stick to them.

Like I said I don't know how it works on Ipoker but it makes no sense to say that houses would not like it etc. Every house knows the rake a player has generated, for promotions etc, so every room would get the amount of rake they deserve.

I mean I did not invent a new system, it's something solid that works for Million Dollar Companies (betfair, titanpoker, bet365, etc etc 27 poker rooms rin total, you can check their site http://www.ipoker.com/html/page/cardrooms).
Even their logo is Ipoker - always a full house.

It works well for these big companies and it does not work for btc poker? Please that is just poor thinking.

And the problem for btc poker is not that it isn't well known. I mean check this forum, on many poker threads people will say try this room or that one, but there aren't many players so if you are serious about poker stay on the fiat rooms.

[SyGambler]

This wouldn't work at all, most sites won't agree to be a part of this and it will fail, the poker cut of the house isn't that much in the first place and they wouldn't want it to be distributed. The future of BTC Poker is bright but all the players who are interested in playing Poker and not just the freerolls will probably choose 1-2 sites which gets more crowd and they will stick to them.

Like I said I don't know how it works on Ipoker but it makes no sense to say that houses would not like it etc. Every house knows the rake a player has generated, for promotions etc, so every room would get the amount of rake they deserve.

I mean I did not invent a new system, it's something solid that works for Million Dollar Companies (betfair, titanpoker, bet365, etc etc 27 poker rooms rin total, you can check their site http://www.ipoker.com/html/page/cardrooms).
Even their logo is Ipoker - always a full house.

It works well for these big companies and it does not work for btc poker? Please that is just poor thinking.

And the problem for btc poker is not that it isn't well known. I mean check this forum, on many poker threads people will say try this room or that one, but there aren't many players so if you are serious about poker stay on the fiat rooms.

it will work for sure , right now Betcoin is a part of the WPN and each site of the network is taking their part from the fees
for sure this can be achieved , but as I said we need to unite our sites and we need to introduce more people to bitcoin

[hodlmybtc]

If/when Pokerstars accepts BTC deposits with low/zero fees it will be great for BTC.

Everytime you deposit there now you pay ~3% in fees.

[Sourgummies]

Its not poor thinking to be a critic of the idea you present,its poor thinking when the reasoning you present does not make things clear.

You want to create a cartel that would help grow the field and I think there are better ways then lumping them all together.

The idea that lumping 4 sites together will increase the player field is crazy. Overlap of players site to site,100% rake back deals would be squashed and incentive to promote ones own site would fall off.
What would stop me from offering a opposing site with rakeback and dropping the groups player field? Nothing.

Its really a great idea till you nit pick the edges and realize no companies come together unless it benefits them. Only reason this makes sense is if they push the rake up all around to balance out the other issues that come along with it.


End of the day poker is about rake and some one is going to have to lose for another to gain. Just do not see that happening.

[patt0]

If/when Pokerstars accepts BTC deposits with low/zero fees it will be great for BTC.

Everytime you deposit there now you pay ~3% in fees.

That is not really the problem. Neteller already accepts btc, so you can deposit anywhere with btc. And there are already many poker rooms that accept btc deposits, some of them in the Ipoker network. They don't have tables, or let you have a balance in btc, but I don't think they will do it (actually if they do that would be for btc, but it would be the end for these small rooms lol). They would do it if they thought they were losing some clients to btc poker rooms, but they wont lose clients because you cant play poker for real in btc poker rooms because of the number of players.

So yes we can talk to people and try to make them experience btc poker rooms, but we can't get them to stay without the number of players they need to play the way they like. And that can only be achieved if the btc rooms unite in the same network (that was the main reason why Ipoker was created, because that was the only way to get players from pokerstars etc. It's really just a matter of copying a success story lol).

[15Lemon714]

If/when Pokerstars accepts BTC deposits with low/zero fees it will be great for BTC.

Everytime you deposit there now you pay ~3% in fees.

This is spot on! Pokerstars traffic is crazy and a lot of them have decent money backing them, once we get a percentage of them get interested in BTC then most of these BTC poker sites will get more traffic than now as the sharks will be on the hunt. Also would be a very good day for BTC.

[patt0]

Its not poor thinking to be a critic of the idea you present,its poor thinking when the reasoning you present does not make things clear.

You want to create a cartel that would help grow the field and I think there are better ways then lumping them all together.

The idea that lumping 4 sites together will increase the player field is crazy. Overlap of players site to site,100% rake back deals would be squashed and incentive to promote ones own site would fall off.
What would stop me from offering a opposing site with rakeback and dropping the groups player field? Nothing.

Its really a great idea till you nit pick the edges and realize no companies come together unless it benefits them. Only reason this makes sense is if they push the rake up all around to balance out the other issues that come along with it.


End of the day poker is about rake and some one is going to have to lose for another to gain. Just do not see that happening.

Hmm this is not my idea lol, this is done in Million Dollar companies and it works. And it was done for the same reasons, so that small sites could compete with the big ones.

Like I said I'm not inventing the wheel lol, it's not my idea, it's just a success model that already exists. The thing is, I don't think the sites want to offer a real alternative to poker rooms. They just want to offer another feature to their casinos. So yes, with that way of thinking, meaning not wanting to really become an alternative to poker, they just want to crush the competition and the idea of "uniting" (because it's not really uniting, they all have different players with different accounts etc, they just let the players play across rooms. Don't know if you really know how Ipoker works. Even their promotions and rake and wtv can be different, so there is competition between rooms. They just let players play together and not just vs players in their one room).

[Sourgummies]

Million dollar companies come together because they have something to offer one another. The only thing you offer in this idea is it will grow the poker base and thats a big maybe to throw all their ducks in one basket.

Ipoker is not a good example of how they come together. I have already stated they all work under one umbrella. They are called skins for a reason,maybe enlighten me as to how I am wrong about them instead of insinuating I am wrong. Have stated these are not sites coming together but sites joining up to their set up.
You could argue Pokerstars and Fulltilt but that was more because Pokerstars had the money and Fulltilt ran its self into the ground. Otherwise you still lack a example. If Ipoker is the example,explain how I am wrong.

[Sourgummies]

This post is "The Future of BTC Poker,so I would think you presented a idea at the start.

[Sourgummies]

Been trying to find a thread that explains how the ipoker skins work and how they all profit but to no avail so far to help settle that aspect.

But I did find a interesting bitcoin thread from 2012 about asking a skin to use bitcoin.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61892.0

Was interesting bit off on a tangent but some what relates.

Never like ipoker skins. Titan was slow and bot infested and the cheating was way to obvious. Add on the disconnects when invested in a pot. Again off the topic,my bad.
Just like talking poker.

[Sourgummies]

Found something about the profit sharing on ipoker:


Network Revenue Sharing Agreement

The Source Based Rake concept is viewed by iPoker as a revenue sharing agreement of sorts among the skins on the network. The sharing comes into play "on rake and fees generated from money that has been deposited and wagered by players" on various skins, and subsequently "turned into revenue by another player" regardless of the skin to which that player belongs.

SBR, which will replace the current Weighted-Contributed Rake model, functions by requiring the creation of a "virtual balance" (VB) for each player in conjunction with an actual balance. Money that is "wagered for the first time" is tagged and time-stamped to the wagering player. The SBR system uses existing money of a player's virtual balance that is used in a cash game pot or a Sit N' Go buy-in.

A player is tagged with new money only if his or her "virtual balance is lower than the bet or Sit N' Go buy-in." Upon the collection of rake and fees, players who used money to enter the Sit N' Go or build a ring game pot will be assigned a value that is proportional to the wagered money. SBR always takes other players' oldest money first from the virtual balance before their own money is used.

All of the money tagged to players will not mean revenue for the skins of those players. It is highly likely that a portion of the virtual balances of players will not be turned into rake, thereby eliminating revenue for the skin.



link:

https://www.pokertube.com/poker-news/poker-business-industry/ipoker-announces-implementation-of-source-based-rake-on-jan-1-2015

[patt0]

I never said poker rooms on Ipoker are together, actually I always say that they are not, and that they still compete with each other. They have different promotions and try to attract players for themselves the way they can. Players are independent and are not shared by the rooms.

I actually thought you were saying they were together,  because you were always saying that rooms want to beat the competition etc, and that's where I thought you were wrong. I'm perfectly fine with rooms trying to beat the competition, that is normally good for players, and this would not change that. Skins in Ipoker see themselves as competition to one another, being on the same network does not change that at all. They are not "together" they are on the same network period.

I only see one reason for them to want to share a network, and that is to get a good number of players at the tables, and that is something btc poker has in common with them if they want to be an alternative to "standard" poker rooms.

As for the rake like I said I don't know how it works. All I said was that if this works for these rooms, because I don't see them leaving Ipoker, I see them joining, I don't understand why it would be bad for btc poker. I'm pretty sure it would be good for players. Maybe some players are shared by the rooms, I don't argue with that, but I'm sure that they are not 100% present in all the rooms, so yes a common network would mean more players the next time you would enter a room, and more players will attract even more players because maybe next time you sit on a room you won't just leave because there isn't a table for you to play at.

Oh and of course the idea is not mine, if I have any idea was why not copy a success model... (but I can't consider that as my idea since it means copying something)

Second and off topic, I never felt I was being cheated on Titan or any other poker sites. I play poker online and live, it's the same feeling for me as far as trust goes on the live casino or online poker room.

Third and still off topic, why so many posts man, you know you can edit and add info right?

[Gronthaing]

How would all the different software be able to connect to 1 network?  Is there a way that 2 different clients can connect to 1 network?

Clients would have to be altered. Every room in Ipoker has the same client, although they have different skins so the houses are well identified.
It's still different rooms on the same network, so they only had to unite to create the network and the new client.

This looks like a good idea but there may be a few problems. Wouldn't this need each site to trust the network maintaining the games? That would have to be very well verified to make sure no scams go on. And if a flaw in the software is found it will affect everyone connected. Then, many new gambling sites turn out to be scams and being associated with one could kill the deal. And also some larger sites may not want to do this to limit how many players they would lose to smaller sites. Smaller sites may not want to do this to avoid having to rewrite code that they just bought from someone else.

I don't know how Ipoker does it, but I can't really see a problem here for anyone. I think the Ipoker network was probably created to solve exactly the problem of a lot of poker houses not having enough players to compete with bit networks like pokerstars, fultilt, etc. I mean btc poker is nothing compare to any of those networks, so the "greedy" way of thinking will do nothing for them. None of the btc poker rooms is a big room, they are all small and can't really compete with Ipoker, pokerstars etc, because of that, so they all have to win if they keep they accounts separate, and just unite their poker networks.

There shouldn't be a trust issue because they will all have something to win because they would just become more attractive to poker players.

I have no idea how the rake works etc in Ipoker, but I'm sure they could just copy the model. I don't see any room complaining about being in the poker network, so I'm sure it works.

Not saying it can't work or that it isn't a good idea. But you didn't really answer what I said. And you keep comparing large and well established sites with smaller btc poker sites. What is possible for one isn't necessarily possible for the other. Like I said smaller sites may not have the money to rewrite their code. And having more people for their players to play against may be too small a reward for now. As for trust, that's not what I meant. I meant all the sites will need to trust the ones providing the rooms and running the games, not each other. That can create other problems, like scams coming from the providers. Or bugs in the code that could affect everyone, and hit small sites much harder. I guess there are ways to avoid these but that takes time and money. And btc poker sites may not be interested in that commitment for now.

[WhatTheGox]

Hello, I really enjoy playing poker and after seeing so many rooms "ban" players from some countries etc I decided to try btc poker, the problem is that there aren't many players out there yet. I'm playing on betcoing.ag for now, and it's good compared to the others I tried, but I still can't play in a lot of tables at the same time, and to do that I have to enter in tables with different blinds which can "ruin" a session, and even like that, depending on the time of the day, sometimes I can't play even at 3 tables on the same time.

So my question is:

Why don't btc poker rooms create a poker network like Ipoker?

They would still have their clients and separate accounts etc, but players would all play on the same network. That would really help the btc poker community and it would be good for casinos to, because more players would probably make the change, like I'm trying to do.

I mean if that works for big poker rooms, why can't work for btc poker? I really don't get it.

Creating a network like ipoker could be a great idea, someone will have to be the master at the top though who decides who gets in and who doesn't.  It will create a monopoly in BTC poker for the time being.  It would be nice if the other sites like stars just started accepting BTC its probably only due to USA market they dont.

[patt0]

How would all the different software be able to connect to 1 network?  Is there a way that 2 different clients can connect to 1 network?

Clients would have to be altered. Every room in Ipoker has the same client, although they have different skins so the houses are well identified.
It's still different rooms on the same network, so they only had to unite to create the network and the new client.

This looks like a good idea but there may be a few problems. Wouldn't this need each site to trust the network maintaining the games? That would have to be very well verified to make sure no scams go on. And if a flaw in the software is found it will affect everyone connected. Then, many new gambling sites turn out to be scams and being associated with one could kill the deal. And also some larger sites may not want to do this to limit how many players they would lose to smaller sites. Smaller sites may not want to do this to avoid having to rewrite code that they just bought from someone else.

I don't know how Ipoker does it, but I can't really see a problem here for anyone. I think the Ipoker network was probably created to solve exactly the problem of a lot of poker houses not having enough players to compete with bit networks like pokerstars, fultilt, etc. I mean btc poker is nothing compare to any of those networks, so the "greedy" way of thinking will do nothing for them. None of the btc poker rooms is a big room, they are all small and can't really compete with Ipoker, pokerstars etc, because of that, so they all have to win if they keep they accounts separate, and just unite their poker networks.

There shouldn't be a trust issue because they will all have something to win because they would just become more attractive to poker players.

I have no idea how the rake works etc in Ipoker, but I'm sure they could just copy the model. I don't see any room complaining about being in the poker network, so I'm sure it works.

Not saying it can't work or that it isn't a good idea. But you didn't really answer what I said. And you keep comparing large and well established sites with smaller btc poker sites. What is possible for one isn't necessarily possible for the other. Like I said smaller sites may not have the money to rewrite their code. And having more people for their players to play against may be too small a reward for now. As for trust, that's not what I meant. I meant all the sites will need to trust the ones providing the rooms and running the games, not each other. That can create other problems, like scams coming from the providers. Or bugs in the code that could affect everyone, and hit small sites much harder. I guess there are ways to avoid these but that takes time and money. And btc poker sites may not be interested in that commitment for now.

Yes the code would have to be rewritten, or a new service would have to be created (one that would offer the new network and the "skins"). If they afford to have one client and be in one network I see not problem to change that client and network for the new client (skin) and be on the new network (the shared one).

As for trust I can't answer it. I'm not providing a service, and if someone would offer something like this I could not speak for them either. Maybe it should be "easier" since now you could point out one company that was providing the network and the client, but trust can always be broken and scams can always happen anywhere, so I can't answer that.

[patt0]

Hello, I really enjoy playing poker and after seeing so many rooms "ban" players from some countries etc I decided to try btc poker, the problem is that there aren't many players out there yet. I'm playing on betcoing.ag for now, and it's good compared to the others I tried, but I still can't play in a lot of tables at the same time, and to do that I have to enter in tables with different blinds which can "ruin" a session, and even like that, depending on the time of the day, sometimes I can't play even at 3 tables on the same time.

So my question is:

Why don't btc poker rooms create a poker network like Ipoker?

They would still have their clients and separate accounts etc, but players would all play on the same network. That would really help the btc poker community and it would be good for casinos to, because more players would probably make the change, like I'm trying to do.

I mean if that works for big poker rooms, why can't work for btc poker? I really don't get it.

Creating a network like ipoker could be a great idea, someone will have to be the master at the top though who decides who gets in and who doesn't.  It will create a monopoly in BTC poker for the time being.  It would be nice if the other sites like stars just started accepting BTC its probably only due to USA market they dont.

Why do you say it would create a monopoly? Like I said someone would be providing a common client and a network. But you can't call that a monopoly because anyone can be outside the common network if they don't want to join. Of course the only reason for that would be that you already have a big network and see no point in being in a shared one. You don't see pokerstars in Ipoker and you will never see of course because they are already huge.

As for monopoly in the rooms there would not be such thing as well, because like I said there is a common network and a common client, but the rooms are still independent and have different clients thus, are competing with themselves.

[FanEagle]

Don't nominate iPoker! it's one of the worst graphic I ever saw, should be  better a qualified one to play on?

[patt0]

Don't nominate iPoker! it's one of the worst graphic I ever saw, should be  better a qualified one to play on?

lol I really don't care much about the skin and the graphics, as long as it does not hurt my eyes and I can multitable for at least 1h
Anyway the client graphics is really not the issue, it can be better looking than ipoker skins lol

[hodlmybtc]

If/when Pokerstars accepts BTC deposits with low/zero fees it will be great for BTC.

Everytime you deposit there now you pay ~3% in fees.

That is not really the problem. Neteller already accepts btc, so you can deposit anywhere with btc. And there are already many poker rooms that accept btc deposits, some of them in the Ipoker network. They don't have tables, or let you have a balance in btc, but I don't think they will do it (actually if they do that would be for btc, but it would be the end for these small rooms lol). They would do it if they thought they were losing some clients to btc poker rooms, but they wont lose clients because you cant play poker for real in btc poker rooms because of the number of players.

So yes we can talk to people and try to make them experience btc poker rooms, but we can't get them to stay without the number of players they need to play the way they like. And that can only be achieved if the btc rooms unite in the same network (that was the main reason why Ipoker was created, because that was the only way to get players from pokerstars etc. It's really just a matter of copying a success story lol).

AFAIK Neteller is about to change the BTC deposit fee to 5%, if you deposit through Neteller on Pokerstars you lose another 3%, 8% for depositing? Hell no.

Also the daily limit is like $375 at this moment, some high stakes players need to deposit/withdraw thousands to hundreds of thousands.

About a year ago I read on twoplustwo that Pokerstars was testing stuff to add BTC deposits etc. Maybe with them being sold to a gambling corporation is the reason why they still not accept it.

Pokerstars is the biggest poker site with the biggest volume, biggest tournaments etc. Them accepting BTC would be huge.

[patt0]

If/when Pokerstars accepts BTC deposits with low/zero fees it will be great for BTC.

Everytime you deposit there now you pay ~3% in fees.

That is not really the problem. Neteller already accepts btc, so you can deposit anywhere with btc. And there are already many poker rooms that accept btc deposits, some of them in the Ipoker network. They don't have tables, or let you have a balance in btc, but I don't think they will do it (actually if they do that would be for btc, but it would be the end for these small rooms lol). They would do it if they thought they were losing some clients to btc poker rooms, but they wont lose clients because you cant play poker for real in btc poker rooms because of the number of players.

So yes we can talk to people and try to make them experience btc poker rooms, but we can't get them to stay without the number of players they need to play the way they like. And that can only be achieved if the btc rooms unite in the same network (that was the main reason why Ipoker was created, because that was the only way to get players from pokerstars etc. It's really just a matter of copying a success story lol).

AFAIK Neteller is about to change the BTC deposit fee to 5%, if you deposit through Neteller on Pokerstars you lose another 3%, 8% for depositing? Hell no.

Also the daily limit is like $375 at this moment, some high stakes players need to deposit/withdraw thousands to hundreds of thousands.

About a year ago I read on twoplustwo that Pokerstars was testing stuff to add BTC deposits etc. Maybe with them being sold to a gambling corporation is the reason why they still not accept it.

Pokerstars is the biggest poker site with the biggest volume, biggest tournaments etc. Them accepting BTC would be huge.

Yes it would I don't argue with that, and I hope they do it eventually. Actually if that ever happens it will probably be "the end" of all the small btc poker rooms. They do let us play in btc, but I don't think that would be enough.