A Phuket villa owner agrees to accept bitcoin, how do I proceed

[hl5460]

Me and my families are going to spend some quality time on Phuket Thailand next month. And we find a villa on airbnb that just suit our needs. I contacted the owner and he directed me to his own website where more villas are listed: http://tropiclook.com/ (5% discount) .

Then he sent me a memo or something like contract to me, detailing the expenses etc.

At the end of the mail, I have two options to pay 30% as down payment. (~2 btc)
1. Bank trasnfer
2. Paypal

Then I asked him if he accepted bitcoin.
His initial reaction was:
OMG

But he quickly went to create an account on a local bitcoin website, something like coinpay.

We are good to go until I got final confirmation from my families.



My brother called me just now and his concern was that since bitcoin tx is not reversible, how can I protect my interest, what if this guy runaway or denied the tx.


Any advice on how to handle the deal so that none of us get burnt?

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[CIYAM]

You should have probably thought about using a trusted escrow before trying to work out the deal (but perhaps that is now too late).

This is actually where Bitcoin *sucks* for spenders. My advice would be not to pay the BTC until you actually arrive at the venue but quite likely the provider will not want to do that (and you won't know if they will even then have a suitable room for you).

So assuming they won't agree to an escrow and you don't want to trust them I'd have to say "use a credit card" or "paypal" (at least those can be reversed).

Also - best to get a "pick up" from the airport as the "so-called taxis" are the biggest ripoff there (you will get burned with that - having been there myself I know).

[hl5460]

You should have probably thought about using a trusted escrow before trying to work out the deal (but perhaps that is now too late).

This is actually where Bitcoin *sucks* for spenders. My advice would be not to pay the BTC until you actually arrive at the venue but quite likely the provider will not want to do that (and you won't know if they will even then have a suitable room for you).

So assuming they won't agree to an escrow and you don't want to trust them I'd have to say "use a credit card" or "paypal" (at least those can be reversed).

Also - best to get a "pick up" from the airport as the "so-called taxis" are the biggest ripoff there (you will get burned with that).

1. It's not too late, I still hold my coins.
2. Actually, down payment is a reasonable and I am not against it.
3. We have credit cards to do the job.
4. Paypal take 4% commission? not sure
5. I will try to talk him into using an escrow service here in the forum?
6. Where can I find the trusted escrows?


Finally, thanks for the Taxi tips and I think we are going to use the pickup service .

[CIYAM]

In regards to escrow I think the problem is going to be the other party (if he is brand new to BTC then he is probably unlikely to trust anyone).

I would recommend using a credit card for the deposit - and if you decide to pay for your stay in BTC then do that when you arrive (assuming they are happy to do this). Bitcoin is still rather alien to most people so the more relaxed the better.

In regards to the airport pickup thing you'll regret not doing that if you don't organise it (that happened to me).

[hl5460]

In regards to escrow I think the problem is going to be the other party (if he is brand new to BTC then he is probably unlikely to trust anyone).

I would recommend using a credit card for the deposit - and if you decide to pay for your stay in BTC then do that when you arrive (assuming they are happy to do this). Bitcoin is still rather alien to most people so the more relaxed the better.

In regards to the airport pickup thing you'll regret not doing that if you don't organise it (that happened to me).

1. Neither do I know any trusted escrow, I will use the karma rating as a major reference.
2. Thanks for the tips. If options are exhausted, we will go for credit card.

[ShetKid]

Make the initial payment with paypal or something cash related and make the remaining payment after reaching there and staying with bitcoins. It will protect you . However i am sure should be safe sending bitcoin too as long as that villa owner is reputed on airbnb.

[CIYAM]

As I reside in China and I know that Thailand is becoming a very popular tourist destination for Chinese I think it would be great for BTC to be an option but for safety I think an escrow would need to be used or just use a credit card for deposit and then do BTC after you arrive (if that is possible).

There are several escrow services available from this forum that have high trust but when you are dealing with people that are very new to the whole thing then trusting even those could be an ask (but if you can help "blaze the trail" then that would be a good thing).

[ShetKid]

As I reside in China and I know that Thailand is becoming a very popular tourist destination for Chinese I think it would be great for BTC to be an option but for safety I think an escrow would need to be used or just use a credit card for deposit and then do BTC after you arrive (if that is possible).

There are several escrow services available from this forum that have high trust but when you are dealing with people that are very new to the whole thing then trusting even those could be an ask (but if you can help "blaze the trail" then that would be a good thing).

Since the person who is on the other end is new to bitcoins. I don't think he would do all that like creating an account on forum only to use an escrow. He would just tell him to rather pay in bitcoin instead.

[achow101]

You could ask him to try using a multisig escrow. You can deposit into that address and he would know that you can't access the coins. Then after you are done your stay there, you can deposit the remaining into the address and release the Bitcoin to him. I would recommend that you either find someone on this forum for that or use keyscrow.com for it.

[CIYAM]

You could ask him to try using a multisig escrow.

Whilst technically that is probably the best way to proceed I think that unfortunately that would simply "overwhelm" someone that is entirely new to Bitcoin.

IMO a "face to face" uncomplicated BTC tx is the best way to get someone "started" (that is how I did several of my first BTC txs with strangers).

[Panadacoin]

You could ask him to try using a multisig escrow.

Whilst technically that is probably the best way to proceed I think that unfortunately that would simply "overwhelm" someone that is entirely new to Bitcoin.

IMO a "face to face" uncomplicated BTC tx is the best way to get someone "started" (that is how I did several of my first BTC txs with strangers).

Does he speak English fluent, or do you speak Thai? I think it is important that he understands the reasons for the escrow so that he does not misunderstand the situation.

[Lethn]

Yeah as others have said you could hold it in escrow, or you could send him half and then half when you leave.

You could ask him to try using a multisig escrow. You can deposit into that address and he would know that you can't access the coins. Then after you are done your stay there, you can deposit the remaining into the address and release the Bitcoin to him. I would recommend that you either find someone on this forum for that or use keyscrow.com for it.

Probably the best option, multi-signature escrow is a pretty good idea.

[ransomer]

In regards to escrow I think the problem is going to be the other party (if he is brand new to BTC then he is probably unlikely to trust anyone).

I would recommend using a credit card for the deposit - and if you decide to pay for your stay in BTC then do that when you arrive (assuming they are happy to do this). Bitcoin is still rather alien to most people so the more relaxed the better.

In regards to the airport pickup thing you'll regret not doing that if you don't organise it (that happened to me).

This whole case demonstrates why I still think that the two great benefits of the bitcoin: anonymity to some degree but even more so the 'non-refundability' of bitcoin, are actually more nuisances or worse for the average person. For criminals etc. I understand that they are great characteristics of bitcoin though.

Also it shows that the blockchain doesn't deal with trust..rather trust issues are now not dealt with..

[achow101]

In regards to escrow I think the problem is going to be the other party (if he is brand new to BTC then he is probably unlikely to trust anyone).

I would recommend using a credit card for the deposit - and if you decide to pay for your stay in BTC then do that when you arrive (assuming they are happy to do this). Bitcoin is still rather alien to most people so the more relaxed the better.

In regards to the airport pickup thing you'll regret not doing that if you don't organise it (that happened to me).

This whole case demonstrates why I still think that the two great benefits of the bitcoin: anonymity to some degree but even more so the 'non-refundability' of bitcoin, are actually more nuisances or worse for the average person. For criminals etc. I understand that they are great characteristics of bitcoin though.

Also it shows that the blockchain doesn't deal with trust..rather trust issues are now not dealt with..

It isn't supposed to deal with trust. The whole thing is supposed to be trustless. It is unfortunate that we live in such a day and age where greed rules everything and everyone.

[gogxmagog]

There are several escrow services over in the services section. Check their reputation. Guys like quickseller and sebastionJu have been around forever and are known well, respected and trusted across the community. I have never needed to use escrow but I would consider using escrow provided by a user I have seen around the forums and who has good reputation like either the 2 guys mentioned. Keep in mind there's always people with beefs that can hand out negative trust unjustly. You must do your research well !

If the villa owner will take escrow, do that. Seeing as he has led you away from the air bnb platform, you could get into trouble.
Always have a plan b. Have fun. It'll be HOT, and Thailand is dirty and poor, but you'll never forget it

[RodeoX]

If it is a legit business with a physical address then he is not likely to run. Where would he go when you show up in a tuk-tuk some evening? I would no worry much myself, especially since you brought up the bitcoin option. You could just ask about the refund policy and how he would handle a return.
If you do have to cancel the tricky part could be getting your refund in BTC. If he is using a payment processor then he might not have BTC anymore. It might not be ideal, but settling the refund in USDs would still be fair. 

[hl5460]

Make the initial payment with paypal or something cash related and make the remaining payment after reaching there and staying with bitcoins. It will protect you . However i am sure should be safe sending bitcoin too as long as that villa owner is reputed on airbnb.

Yes, that's right. He got good ratings on airbnb and I think he is unlikely to deny the transaction.

Is it possible for blockchain to host a credit rating system for every user?

[hl5460]

If it is a legit business with a physical address then he is not likely to run. Where would he go when you show up in a tuk-tuk some evening? I would no worry much myself, especially since you brought up the bitcoin option. You could just ask about the refund policy and how he would handle a return.
If you do have to cancel the tricky part could be getting your refund in BTC. If he is using a payment processor then he might not have BTC anymore. It might not be ideal, but settling the refund in USDs would still be fair. 

Thanks, that's very useful.

[bitcoinmasterlord]

You might think that the 30% are less than what the seller could get but scammers often enough only try to get the small amount and they are gone.

Are you sure these villas exist and that you speak with the real owner?

[Hopalong]

There are several escrow services over in the services section. Check their reputation. Guys like quickseller and sebastionJu have been around forever and are known well, respected and trusted across the community. I have never needed to use escrow but I would consider using escrow provided by a user I have seen around the forums and who has good reputation like either the 2 guys mentioned. Keep in mind there's always people with beefs that can hand out negative trust unjustly. You must do your research well !

If the villa owner will take escrow, do that. Seeing as he has led you away from the air bnb platform, you could get into trouble.
Always have a plan b. Have fun. It'll be HOT, and Thailand is dirty and poor, but you'll never forget it

How could anyone trust some anonyme forum user on a forum where kids buy and sell accounts? I would never trust anyone here and i doubt some random merchant would do it.

I want to be able to check the background before i trust someone and in the case of bitcoin without chargeback i would need some security before the escrow got a single satoshi.