A currency based on nothing is doomed to fail. The US Dollar is this currency.

[americanpegasus]

It used to be based on something, which was the gold standard.  Failing that, it was based on the promise that government wouldn't just print a bunch of dollars to save it's ass if it got in trouble.  When every single one of your dollars was exchangeable for gold, the dollar wasn't just a widely accepted means of exchange...  People had a powerful dual faith, both in the natural scarcity of gold and the financial fidelity of the US Government.  When we came off the gold standard they promised us to be responsible stewards of the dollar and not just print a shit-load of them to save their own ass. 
 
But both of those things have changed now. 
 
The gold standard was abandoned, and the dollar has been tarnished by a "post-mine" scam that has destroyed the very foundation of trust on which we built the modern economy.  Moral hazard, my friends.  If you remove the penalties associated with risk from a self-serving creature or organization only a fool would believe that you would not encourage that entity to double down their bets the next time...  And that exactly what we did, and that exactly what is happening as we speak. 
 
If the government had come out and said, "We're totally fucked and we're going to run the printing presses day and night printing new US dollars to sell to anyone who will have them in order to save our ass," there would have been riots.  Instead they obfuscated this mass devaluation of the dollar with complex financial acrobatics which still reduce to the same inescapable conclusion: the US Dollar, as a currency based on nothing, will collapse.  It is inevitable.  It is such a literal pyramid scheme they went ahead and printed a pyramid right on the paper note itself, just so you wouldn't be able to say you weren't warned when it happens. 
 
Before when this mass financial collapse occured, like a wave sloshing around in a bathtub, the economy was forced to recover through the same flawed bathtub system.  There was simply no where else for that value to go.  Even if they increased the size of the tub unfairly, and made one side *way* deeper than the other, the world economy had no choice but to slosh around in that perverted bathtub of corruption. 
 
But now cryptocurrency is about to pull the plug on the entire operation. 
 
That value does have somewhere to go now, and it is into something far better than a paper note whose distribution and integrity has been fundamentally compromised.  Bitcoin and (and my other favorite cryptocurrency, Monero)  are based on something: the social contract between you and every other user, and some of the most advanced mathematical structures on Earth guaranteeing it.  There will only ever be an agreed upon amount in existence, and no single entity can abuse the system for their own gain. 
 
The future belongs to real money, not pretend money based on nothing. 
 
What's in your wallet?

[1715196385]

1715196385

[1715196385]

1715196385

[1715196385]

1715196385

[1715196385]

1715196385

[Hopalong]

It used to be based on something, which was the gold standard.  Failing that, it was based on the promise that government wouldn't just print a bunch of dollars to save it's ass if it got in trouble.  When every single one of your dollars was exchangeable for gold, the dollar wasn't just a widely accepted means of exchange...  People had a powerful dual faith, both in the natural scarcity of gold and the financial fidelity of the US Government.  When we came off the gold standard they promised us to be responsible stewards of the dollar and not just print a shit-load of them to save their own ass. 
 
But both of those things have changed now. 
 
The gold standard was abandoned, and the dollar has been tarnished by a "post-mine" scam that has destroyed the very foundation of trust on which we built the modern economy.  Moral hazard, my friends.  If you remove the penalties associated with risk from a self-serving creature or organization only a fool would believe that you would not encourage that entity to double down their bets the next time...  And that exactly what we did, and that exactly what is happening as we speak. 
 
If the government had come out and said, "We're totally fucked and we're going to run the printing presses day and night printing new US dollars to sell to anyone who will have them in order to save our ass," there would have been riots.  Instead they obfuscated this mass devaluation of the dollar with complex financial acrobatics which still reduce to the same inescapable conclusion: the US Dollar, as a currency based on nothing, will collapse.  It is inevitable.  It is such a literal pyramid scheme they went ahead and printed a pyramid right on the paper note itself, just so you wouldn't be able to say you weren't warned when it happens. 
 
Before when this mass financial collapse occured, like a wave sloshing around in a bathtub, the economy was forced to recover through the same flawed bathtub system.  There was simply no where else for that value to go.  Even if they increased the size of the tub unfairly, and made one side *way* deeper than the other, the world economy had no choice but to slosh around in that perverted bathtub of corruption. 
 
But now cryptocurrency is about to pull the plug on the entire operation. 
 
That value does have somewhere to go now, and it is into something far better than a paper note whose distribution and integrity has been fundamentally compromised.  Bitcoin and (and my other favorite cryptocurrency, Monero)  are based on something: the social contract between you and every other user, and some of the most advanced mathematical structures on Earth guaranteeing it.  There will only ever be an agreed upon amount in existence, and no single entity can abuse the system for their own gain. 
 
The future belongs to real money, not pretend money based on nothing. 
 
What's in your wallet?

Did not bother to read all the bs. You know what would happen to the exange rate if you printed more dollar than you could back up? If not you should go and read about it.

[oblivi]

Unfortunately it will take a couple years more of crisis for something to happen. People is not going to care if the system we live under is complete nonsense as long as they can pay for their starbucks coffee and buy the new xbox from wallmart. As long as everything seems normal under the surface things will not change. Once this system of infinite debt starts crumbling and people start researching for alternatives then anyone holding 1 BTC will be the new 1% and so be it.

[Meuh6879]

in 100 years, 67 monetary union ... 67 FAIL.

that why Bitcoin will win at the end ... it's simply a question of people ... of trust ... of time.

[americanpegasus]

Did not bother to read all the bs. You know what would happen to the exange rate if you printed more dollar than you could back up? If not you should go and read about it.

 
 

   
 
 
 
Oh wait.  You're serious. 
 
Allow me to laugh even harder then. 
 
   
 
 
 

[Snorek]

You are forgetting something. Money are based on something - trust. A fiat money currency generally is issued by government or central bank and these institutions can guarantee its value.
Unfortunately this system has many flaws and it is considered to be the biggest economic scam in the history of mankind but is at the same time the pillar of our modern society.

[Hopalong]

Did not bother to read all the bs. You know what would happen to the exange rate if you printed more dollar than you could back up? If not you should go and read about it.

 
 

   
 
 
 
Oh wait.  You're serious. 
 
Allow me to laugh even harder then. 
 
   
 
 
 

Laugh all you want. Or get some education....

[Hopalong]

You are forgetting something. Money are based on something - trust. A fiat money currency generally is issued by government or central bank and these institutions can guarantee its value.
Unfortunately this system has many flaws and it is considered to be the biggest economic scam in the history of mankind but is at the same time the pillar of our modern society.

It is not a scam. A cardhouse maybe but not a scam...

The total amount of money in a country has to be backed up of something. If not you get hyperinflation and the excange rate drops trough the floor.

The excange rate of a currency is a measure of how much it is trusted. If it raises the others trust you. It can be manipulated but most countries can fight of traders.

If you realy think the fiat in your country is about to fall the smart approach is to get the bigest morgage you can get and buy something that hold its value.

[jonald_fyookball]

OP, right on dude... you're preaching to the choir as far as me at least, but I agree.
The dollar has already lost like 95%+ of its value in the last century.

Still, it won't collapse overnight.  It's still the reserve currency and
that takes time to change.  But yeah, most of us know fiat currency
has serious limitations and thats why we love Bitcoin.

[americanpegasus]

You are forgetting something. Money are based on something - trust. A fiat money currency generally is issued by government or central bank and these institutions can guarantee its value.
Unfortunately this system has many flaws and it is considered to be the biggest economic scam in the history of mankind but is at the same time the pillar of our modern society.

 
 

 
 
The horse and buggy was also a pillar of modern society at one point... as was the railroad. 
 
Modern society is more fickle than we might like to believe. 
 
Cryptocurrency is about to redefine what 'modern' really means.

[americanpegasus]

Laugh all you want. Or get some education....

 


 
 


Please excuse me if I don't participate in the latest modern bubble.  If that doesn't make me a good little citizen, I apologize, but I assure you I am quite educated on the subject. 
 
Now, did you want to continue discussing the topic, or were you content with your little white flag of ignorance waving in the wind? 
 
Can you explain this to me, since I'm such a simpleton:  In that chart there is a line that has a steady and predictable increase for decades.... and then suddenly, right during the bank bailouts it goes nearly vertical.  Why did this happen?  Why shouldn't that concern me?

[americanpegasus]

It is not a scam. A cardhouse maybe but not a scam...

The total amount of money in a country has to be backed up of something. If not you get hyperinflation and the excange rate drops trough the floor.

The excange rate of a currency is a measure of how much it is trusted. If it raises the others trust you. It can be manipulated but most countries can fight of traders.

If you realy think the fiat in your country is about to fall the smart approach is to get the bigest morgage you can get and buy something that hold its value.

 
 
If I tell you that you can stake yours and your family's financial future on shares of the cardhouse I've built, that's a scam.  Especially in Oklahoma. 
 
Now, you say that the total amount of money needs to be backed up by something.... what is that?  What is backing up the US Dollar right now?  Why should anyone want a US Dollar? 
 
Do you really even understand what money is, at its heart? 
 
Cryptocurrency is something that holds its value because no one is propping up its value or making false claims about it... it is a mathematical object that humans all compete to own a share of.  No one can dillute its value or commit fraud with it.  It is quite simply the most powerful financial asset that humans have ever created. 
 
I will admit that land is better than fiat, but intelligent people are already competing to own a share of the public and private global ledgers of our species.

[Hopalong]

Laugh all you want. Or get some education....

 


 
 


Please excuse me if I don't participate in the latest modern bubble.  If that doesn't make me a good little citizen, I apologize, but I assure you I am quite educated on the subject. 
 
Now, did you want to continue discussing the topic, or were you content with your little white flag of ignorance waving in the wind? 
 
Can you explain this to me, since I'm such a simpleton:  In that chart there is a line that has a steady and predictable increase for decades.... and then suddenly, right during the bank bailouts it goes nearly vertical.  Why did this happen?  Why shouldn't that concern me?

I can see you are visiting conspiracy theory forums by the way you bombard us with stupid pictures. I guess links and youtube videos is next. By education i dont think those forums are good. Try books.

[americanpegasus]

I can see you are visiting conspiracy theory forums by the way you bombard us with stupid pictures. I guess links and youtube videos is next. By education i dont think those forums are good. Try books.

 
  
Yes, you're right.  It's probably a better idea to ignore the digital global sum of human knowledge in favor of one person's opinion printed on the remains of a dead tree.  
  
But, since that might take a while, why don't we get back to you (in all your amazing educational glory) explaining to little simple me why that line on that chart went from a steady predictable rise (which we could put faith in) to an absurd vertical rocketship?  
  
You know the chart I'm talking about?  
  
This one?  
  

  
Or would you like to continue ignoring my point while attacking me personally some more?  This is a traditional tactic of a troll/shill trying to distract attention from the topic at hand, by the way.  Oops, sorry.  There I go talking about things I learned outside of books again.  
  
Bad citizen!

[roadbits]

official currency only have extrinsic value because that is what we agree they are worth. If we agree they are worth nothing then they have no use

[americanpegasus]

official currency only have extrinsic value because that is what we agree they are worth. If we agree they are worth nothing then they have no use

 
 
Excellent.  Now we are getting somewhere.  China has a bigger population.  Russia has far more land. 
 
Why is the U.S. Dollar worth so much more to the average human than the paper that these countries print? 
 
Why is a bitcoin worth $278?

[bt62567]

Fail thread

 

https://i.imgur.com/7qyZCHK.jpg

[achow101]

Then what is Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies based on? They are not based on anything. They, like the US dollar and all other fiat currencies in the world are based on value given them by society. And if you really think about it, what gives gold its value? Nothing, but what people are willing to pay for it. I don't think it is the fact that there is nothing to back the currency, but the fact that it is centralized and that centralized power can just keep printing more and more without limits. I think what gives Bitcoin its value is like what gives gold its value; there is a finite supply. I'm sure that if we found some planet full of gold and people started mining it that gold's value would suddenly plummet from the new massive influx of supply, just like what is happening to the dollar.

[jonald_fyookball]

official currency only have extrinsic value because that is what we agree they are worth. If we agree they are worth nothing then they have no use

 
 
Excellent.  Now we are getting somewhere.  China has a bigger population.  Russia has far more land. 
 
Why is the U.S. Dollar worth so much more to the average human than the paper that these countries print? 
 
Why is a bitcoin worth $278?

This article may help:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_currency

[americanpegasus]

This article may help:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_currency

 
 
Shhhhh.... We build to that. 

[meono]

You are forgetting something. Money are based on something - trust. A fiat money currency generally is issued by government or central bank and these institutions can guarantee its value.
Unfortunately this system has many flaws and it is considered to be the biggest economic scam in the history of mankind but is at the same time the pillar of our modern society.

There is no guaranteed "value".

Dollard isnt "value", just a unit.

If you want to talk about value, 5 dollards are always worth more today than in the future. So what value is being guaranteed?

[americanpegasus]

Then what is Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies based on? They are not based on anything. They, like the US dollar and all other fiat currencies in the world are based on value given them by society. And if you really think about it, what gives gold its value? Nothing, but what people are willing to pay for it. I don't think it is the fact that there is nothing to back the currency, but the fact that it is centralized and that centralized power can just keep printing more and more without limits. I think what gives Bitcoin its value is like what gives gold its value; there is a finite supply. I'm sure that if we found some planet full of gold and people started mining it that gold's value would suddenly plummet from the new massive influx of supply, just like what is happening to the dollar.

 
  
Exactly, all money is only based on the value that society gives to it.... very similar to all other institutions set up amongst humans, including government, religion, friendships, and even the popularity of a meme itself.  
  
All these are simply institutions in varying scales that result in ideas flowing from one human to another, influencing how other humans perceive each other and the universe.  
  
Nothing real is actually taking place.  When we move from loving a religion to hating it, that happens entirely inside our heads (well... hopefully  ).  When a government collapses, it's essentially the opinion of the masses that has changed, not necessarily anything fundamental about the government itself.  
  
All these concepts, including money itself are merely social webs we form between ourselves.  In many ways they resemble the hydraulic fluid flowing from one part of a machine to another, or even the electricity that flows from one neuron in your brain to another.  
  
Now, you mentioned that you think that a finite supply gives bitcoin its value.  But this isn't true on its own.  For example, BBQCoin is also limited, but it isn't nearly as valuable.  Why not?  I only own 25 pairs of underwear, and those are limited, but they aren't very valuable.  Clearly there's something else at stake besides just scarcity, but I agree with you that if scarcity is broken then the asset is worthless.  It would be like flooding the brain with electricity, finding a near-infinite supply of gold, or declaring that every human had the right to govern himself however he or she wanted, or declaring that every human could have their own relationship with God however they chose and no one could stop them (now you understand why the teachings of Jesus were considered so dangerous 2000 years ago).

[meono]

Then what is Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies based on? They are not based on anything. They, like the US dollar and all other fiat currencies in the world are based on value given them by society. And if you really think about it, what gives gold its value? Nothing, but what people are willing to pay for it. I don't think it is the fact that there is nothing to back the currency, but the fact that it is centralized and that centralized power can just keep printing more and more without limits. I think what gives Bitcoin its value is like what gives gold its value; there is a finite supply. I'm sure that if we found some planet full of gold and people started mining it that gold's value would suddenly plummet from the new massive influx of supply, just like what is happening to the dollar.

The difference between fiat and bitcoin/commodity backed currency is.... you can just ..."pft  $1 trillion right at a snap of your fingers"

Even if we have infinite resource of gold, you're still limited by your gold mining capacity.

Fiat on the other is nothing but a number. Its all digital now anyway. The supply does not follow anything but at will of some socalled "economist"

[achow101]

Then what is Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies based on? They are not based on anything. They, like the US dollar and all other fiat currencies in the world are based on value given them by society. And if you really think about it, what gives gold its value? Nothing, but what people are willing to pay for it. I don't think it is the fact that there is nothing to back the currency, but the fact that it is centralized and that centralized power can just keep printing more and more without limits. I think what gives Bitcoin its value is like what gives gold its value; there is a finite supply. I'm sure that if we found some planet full of gold and people started mining it that gold's value would suddenly plummet from the new massive influx of supply, just like what is happening to the dollar.

The difference between fiat and bitcoin/commodity backed currency is.... you can just ..."pft  $1 trillion right at a snap of your fingers"

Even if we have infinite resource of gold, you're still limited by your gold mining capacity.

Fiat on the other is nothing but a number. Its all digital now anyway. The supply does not follow anything but at will of some socalled "economist"

Actually for more money to be in circulation, the government actually has to print more. So they are limited by the speed of their printers.

[jonald_fyookball]

Then what is Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies based on? They are not based on anything. They, like the US dollar and all other fiat currencies in the world are based on value given them by society. And if you really think about it, what gives gold its value? Nothing, but what people are willing to pay for it. I don't think it is the fact that there is nothing to back the currency, but the fact that it is centralized and that centralized power can just keep printing more and more without limits. I think what gives Bitcoin its value is like what gives gold its value; there is a finite supply. I'm sure that if we found some planet full of gold and people started mining it that gold's value would suddenly plummet from the new massive influx of supply, just like what is happening to the dollar.

The difference between fiat and bitcoin/commodity backed currency is.... you can just ..."pft  $1 trillion right at a snap of your fingers"

Even if we have infinite resource of gold, you're still limited by your gold mining capacity.

Fiat on the other is nothing but a number. Its all digital now anyway. The supply does not follow anything but at will of some socalled "economist"

Actually for more money to be in circulation, the government actually has to print more. So they are limited by the speed of their printers.

doubt that.  most money is digital not physical.  But if the government increases the money supply too drastically I imagine it will lead to all kinds of problems such as the currency will experience inflation and will start to lose desirability as far as bonds, treasury notes, foreign reserves, etc. 

[bitcoinmasterlord]

I prefer a currency being based on trust in people than in a government. Bitcoins value comes from trust in other bitcoiners. And the more bitcoin gets into the normal economy the more stable it will become. Which means bitcoin being a world currency would make it practically impossible that the bitcoin value crashes. It would all be one and there would no relation that could make it crash.

[tonycamp]

of cousr its true the currency of based work of people its better like the prople and life into the all countries its good to also have other gidital coins like bitcoin but never leve their own currencies like dollar/euro/Yen and variances

[cellard]

I prefer a currency being based on trust in people than in a government. Bitcoins value comes from trust in other bitcoiners. And the more bitcoin gets into the normal economy the more stable it will become. Which means bitcoin being a world currency would make it practically impossible that the bitcoin value crashes. It would all be one and there would no relation that could make it crash.

Unfortunately the goverment has the monopoly of violence (in other words monopoly of fear). They can make people feel safe about their money because "it's backed up by army" and at the same time they can scare them away from alternatives because they make laws. I hope people will give the middle finger to that policy and adopt Bitcoin eventually.

[V for Varoufakis]

Currencies must based on mathematics, but you need to find the right mathematics.

[qiwoman2]

As people lose trust in fiat and governments because of the corruption and scandals more and more people will look for alternative ways to live and build their lives in general so yes I think fiat will become simply and outdated mode of currency because of the big lie built around it.

[n2004al]

Very accurate analyse. But even very radical. Fight the dollar - this is the connecting thread. It is nothing, doesn't have any value, will collapse from one day to the other and other conclusions which make us dollar seems like the paper for toilet.

Then bitcoin. The invention. Not a common invention but the invention, the only one that must be the point of reference for the future money.

Good writing that express on one hand the "hate" for the dollar and at the other hand the love for bitcoin.

Now my thoughts.

I thing that dollar is a good money and will not collapse. Are to many which speak for this and is to much time in which is spoken about this but nothing has happen. I can tell that the last months us dollar is increased in value about 25%. This fact is not a sign that show one currency that give signs of collapse but signs of power. Us dollar serve as monetary reserve for most countries (for sure for the most powerful and even more for sure for their who are less powerful). This is a sign of faith on it and this faith protect him even more from various speculations which can be made from their enemies. Conclusion: us dollar is the currency of the world and will be such for more time to come.

As for bitcoin I am a bitcoiner and love him maybe more than you. It is the first product and the first materialized invention of one of the powerful technologies that is invented and developed during all the times. This technology is the base of power of bitcoin and will protect him like the mother its child in the years to come. Because indeed bitcoin is the first child of this technology. Is the first materialization of it which testify that it is not only a theory but a theory that can be practice, that can do products and that can made excellent products. For more about my thoughts regarding bitcoin and his role as a currency (compared even with the us dollar) I invite you to read this my post in my thread. Naturally if you want and find the time to do this. 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1191118.0

Every comment is welcome.