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Author Topic: A currency based on nothing is doomed to fail. The US Dollar is this currency.  (Read 1738 times)
meono
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August 02, 2015, 03:21:47 AM
 #21

You are forgetting something. Money are based on something - trust. A fiat money currency generally is issued by government or central bank and these institutions can guarantee its value.
Unfortunately this system has many flaws and it is considered to be the biggest economic scam in the history of mankind but is at the same time the pillar of our modern society.

There is no guaranteed "value".

Dollard isnt "value", just a unit.

If you want to talk about value, 5 dollards are always worth more today than in the future. So what value is being guaranteed?
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August 02, 2015, 03:28:47 AM
 #22

Then what is Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies based on? They are not based on anything. They, like the US dollar and all other fiat currencies in the world are based on value given them by society. And if you really think about it, what gives gold its value? Nothing, but what people are willing to pay for it. I don't think it is the fact that there is nothing to back the currency, but the fact that it is centralized and that centralized power can just keep printing more and more without limits. I think what gives Bitcoin its value is like what gives gold its value; there is a finite supply. I'm sure that if we found some planet full of gold and people started mining it that gold's value would suddenly plummet from the new massive influx of supply, just like what is happening to the dollar.
 
  
Exactly, all money is only based on the value that society gives to it.... very similar to all other institutions set up amongst humans, including government, religion, friendships, and even the popularity of a meme itself.  
  
All these are simply institutions in varying scales that result in ideas flowing from one human to another, influencing how other humans perceive each other and the universe.  
  
Nothing real is actually taking place.  When we move from loving a religion to hating it, that happens entirely inside our heads (well... hopefully  Tongue).  When a government collapses, it's essentially the opinion of the masses that has changed, not necessarily anything fundamental about the government itself.  
  
All these concepts, including money itself are merely social webs we form between ourselves.  In many ways they resemble the hydraulic fluid flowing from one part of a machine to another, or even the electricity that flows from one neuron in your brain to another.  
  
Now, you mentioned that you think that a finite supply gives bitcoin its value.  But this isn't true on its own.  For example, BBQCoin is also limited, but it isn't nearly as valuable.  Why not?  I only own 25 pairs of underwear, and those are limited, but they aren't very valuable.  Clearly there's something else at stake besides just scarcity, but I agree with you that if scarcity is broken then the asset is worthless.  It would be like flooding the brain with electricity, finding a near-infinite supply of gold, or declaring that every human had the right to govern himself however he or she wanted, or declaring that every human could have their own relationship with God however they chose and no one could stop them (now you understand why the teachings of Jesus were considered so dangerous 2000 years ago).

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meono
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August 02, 2015, 03:33:03 AM
 #23

Then what is Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies based on? They are not based on anything. They, like the US dollar and all other fiat currencies in the world are based on value given them by society. And if you really think about it, what gives gold its value? Nothing, but what people are willing to pay for it. I don't think it is the fact that there is nothing to back the currency, but the fact that it is centralized and that centralized power can just keep printing more and more without limits. I think what gives Bitcoin its value is like what gives gold its value; there is a finite supply. I'm sure that if we found some planet full of gold and people started mining it that gold's value would suddenly plummet from the new massive influx of supply, just like what is happening to the dollar.

The difference between fiat and bitcoin/commodity backed currency is.... you can just ..."pft  $1 trillion right at a snap of your fingers"

Even if we have infinite resource of gold, you're still limited by your gold mining capacity.

Fiat on the other is nothing but a number. Its all digital now anyway. The supply does not follow anything but at will of some socalled "economist"
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August 02, 2015, 04:03:49 AM
 #24

Then what is Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies based on? They are not based on anything. They, like the US dollar and all other fiat currencies in the world are based on value given them by society. And if you really think about it, what gives gold its value? Nothing, but what people are willing to pay for it. I don't think it is the fact that there is nothing to back the currency, but the fact that it is centralized and that centralized power can just keep printing more and more without limits. I think what gives Bitcoin its value is like what gives gold its value; there is a finite supply. I'm sure that if we found some planet full of gold and people started mining it that gold's value would suddenly plummet from the new massive influx of supply, just like what is happening to the dollar.

The difference between fiat and bitcoin/commodity backed currency is.... you can just ..."pft  $1 trillion right at a snap of your fingers"

Even if we have infinite resource of gold, you're still limited by your gold mining capacity.

Fiat on the other is nothing but a number. Its all digital now anyway. The supply does not follow anything but at will of some socalled "economist"
Actually for more money to be in circulation, the government actually has to print more. So they are limited by the speed of their printers.

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August 02, 2015, 04:29:44 AM
 #25

Then what is Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies based on? They are not based on anything. They, like the US dollar and all other fiat currencies in the world are based on value given them by society. And if you really think about it, what gives gold its value? Nothing, but what people are willing to pay for it. I don't think it is the fact that there is nothing to back the currency, but the fact that it is centralized and that centralized power can just keep printing more and more without limits. I think what gives Bitcoin its value is like what gives gold its value; there is a finite supply. I'm sure that if we found some planet full of gold and people started mining it that gold's value would suddenly plummet from the new massive influx of supply, just like what is happening to the dollar.

The difference between fiat and bitcoin/commodity backed currency is.... you can just ..."pft  $1 trillion right at a snap of your fingers"

Even if we have infinite resource of gold, you're still limited by your gold mining capacity.

Fiat on the other is nothing but a number. Its all digital now anyway. The supply does not follow anything but at will of some socalled "economist"
Actually for more money to be in circulation, the government actually has to print more. So they are limited by the speed of their printers.

doubt that.  most money is digital not physical.  But if the government increases the money supply too drastically I imagine it will lead to all kinds of problems such as the currency will experience inflation and will start to lose desirability as far as bonds, treasury notes, foreign reserves, etc. 

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August 08, 2015, 12:46:10 PM
 #26

I prefer a currency being based on trust in people than in a government. Bitcoins value comes from trust in other bitcoiners. And the more bitcoin gets into the normal economy the more stable it will become. Which means bitcoin being a world currency would make it practically impossible that the bitcoin value crashes. It would all be one and there would no relation that could make it crash.

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August 08, 2015, 12:53:42 PM
 #27

of cousr its true the currency of based work of people its better like the prople and life into the all countries its good to also have other gidital coins like bitcoin but never leve their own currencies like dollar/euro/Yen and variances

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August 08, 2015, 12:54:14 PM
 #28

I prefer a currency being based on trust in people than in a government. Bitcoins value comes from trust in other bitcoiners. And the more bitcoin gets into the normal economy the more stable it will become. Which means bitcoin being a world currency would make it practically impossible that the bitcoin value crashes. It would all be one and there would no relation that could make it crash.
Unfortunately the goverment has the monopoly of violence (in other words monopoly of fear). They can make people feel safe about their money because "it's backed up by army" and at the same time they can scare them away from alternatives because they make laws. I hope people will give the middle finger to that policy and adopt Bitcoin eventually.

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V for Varoufakis
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August 09, 2015, 06:59:09 AM
 #29

Currencies must based on mathematics, but you need to find the right mathematics.
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August 09, 2015, 07:57:51 AM
 #30

As people lose trust in fiat and governments because of the corruption and scandals more and more people will look for alternative ways to live and build their lives in general so yes I think fiat will become simply and outdated mode of currency because of the big lie built around it.

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September 27, 2015, 06:08:10 PM
 #31

Very accurate analyse. But even very radical. Fight the dollar - this is the connecting thread. It is nothing, doesn't have any value, will collapse from one day to the other and other conclusions which make us dollar seems like the paper for toilet.

Then bitcoin. The invention. Not a common invention but the invention, the only one that must be the point of reference for the future money.

Good writing that express on one hand the "hate" for the dollar and at the other hand the love for bitcoin.

Now my thoughts.

I thing that dollar is a good money and will not collapse. Are to many which speak for this and is to much time in which is spoken about this but nothing has happen. I can tell that the last months us dollar is increased in value about 25%. This fact is not a sign that show one currency that give signs of collapse but signs of power. Us dollar serve as monetary reserve for most countries (for sure for the most powerful and even more for sure for their who are less powerful). This is a sign of faith on it and this faith protect him even more from various speculations which can be made from their enemies. Conclusion: us dollar is the currency of the world and will be such for more time to come.

As for bitcoin I am a bitcoiner and love him maybe more than you. It is the first product and the first materialized invention of one of the powerful technologies that is invented and developed during all the times. This technology is the base of power of bitcoin and will protect him like the mother its child in the years to come. Because indeed bitcoin is the first child of this technology. Is the first materialization of it which testify that it is not only a theory but a theory that can be practice, that can do products and that can made excellent products. For more about my thoughts regarding bitcoin and his role as a currency (compared even with the us dollar) I invite you to read this my post in my thread. Naturally if you want and find the time to do this.  Wink

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1191118.0

Every comment is welcome.  Smiley
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