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Author Topic: Garland shooter bought pistol through ATF’s controversial gun running sting  (Read 1116 times)
rio3232
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August 02, 2015, 05:50:21 PM
 #21

I was just at a Gun show in Florida. Strangely enough there was 2 on duty police there and they were doing back ground checks on everyone.. Even had signs everyone detailing the illegality of straw purchases...

Reality over talking points...
Lol...Who cares? Your anecdotal examples are not reality. There are many other instances of flouting laws and illegal transactions at gun shows, gun shops and between individuals. Right-wingers think it's a sign of virility to ignore laws that they disagree with.
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godlyitems
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August 02, 2015, 05:51:39 PM
 #22

I was just at a Gun show in Florida. Strangely enough there was 2 on duty police there and they were doing back ground checks on everyone.. Even had signs everyone detailing the illegality of straw purchases...

Reality over talking points...

And you could have gone right down the street and bought one out of the trunk of a car, too.

And, of course, you can buy an unlimited number of guns in some states by posing as a private seller.
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August 02, 2015, 05:53:54 PM
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Exactly. Thanks for playing.
Right-wingers trip over themselves trying to paint all the racist mass murderers as loons and quickly dismiss them instead of facing the problem of our gun laws allowing nutters to buy weapons, and dealing with the racist, intolerant, violent culture that the right promotes that enables and inspires these so-called loons.
Meanwhile any Mexican or Muslim that commits a crime is hysterically heralded as irrefutable evidence of the utter depravity of their entire culture and the need to deal with all of them very harshly.
The hypocrisy from the right is nauseating.

More lies "hey rio what's that gun in your hand" (*)(*)(*)(*) and bull from the left.

Here is an example of your crazy liberal Jared Loughner that you try and paint as conservative rio

a) Jared Lee Loughner cited the liberal bible, Karl Marx's The Communist Manifesto, as one of his favorite books;

b) Loughner was intrigued by flag-burning videos;

c) Loughner, in one of his YouTube videos, said, "No! I won't trust in God"; and

d) if listing The Communist Manifesto as one of his favorite books wasn't enough proof of his political inclination, one of his friends confirmed his left-wing views

 I noticed you have failed to address my previous post about the arrests and conviction of your esteemed king with regards to "straw purchases". His "fast and furious" idiocy is costing lives even to this day
peterson33
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August 02, 2015, 05:55:37 PM
 #24


Lol...Who cares? Your anecdotal examples are not reality. There are many other instances of flouting laws and illegal transactions at gun shows, gun shops and between individuals. Right-wingers think it's a sign of virility to ignore laws that they disagree with.

So an actual event is not valid but rant and misinformation is valid got you.. Thank you for insight into the mind of a Progressive.
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August 02, 2015, 05:56:18 PM
 #25

And you could have gone right down the street and bought one out of the trunk of a car, too.

And, of course, you can buy an unlimited number of guns in some states by posing as a private seller.

Of course that would have been illegal. However i disputed the invalid "loophole" i hear about all the time with gun shows..
rio3232
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August 02, 2015, 05:57:40 PM
 #26

I noticed you have failed to address my previous post about the arrests and conviction of your esteemed king with regards to "straw purchases". His "fast and furious" idiocy is costing lives even to this day

Krisz, I don't waste time arguing right-wing brain farts about Obama.
You should know that by now.
godlyitems
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August 02, 2015, 06:01:42 PM
 #27


Of course that would have been illegal. However i disputed the invalid "loophole" i hear about all the time with gun shows..

I don't care whether your disputed it or not. It is very very easy to get a gun in the United States, and folks like you and the NRA want to keep it that way.
peterson33
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August 02, 2015, 06:02:54 PM
 #28



I don't care whether your disputed it or not. It is very very easy to get a gun in the United States, and folks like you and the NRA want to keep it that way.

The NRA has nothing to do with illegal gun purchases. Hint... They are already illegal *gasp*. Sure its easy if you put your mind to it to purchase a gun on the street. Its called the black market for a reason. Just as easy to purchase drugs or sex *gasp*.

Of course for those two there is no lobby group for the left to attack.

However i can see why people would rather post a back and forth and try to escape from reality instead of discussing the topic.. Want to try that again?
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August 02, 2015, 06:04:18 PM
 #29



Total bull(*)(*)(*)(*), try again: Straw purchases are illegal, end of story, and your little dance ain't gonna work

the ATF "purposely allowed licensed firearms dealers to sell weapons to illegal straw buyers, hoping to track the guns to Mexican drug cartel leaders and arrest them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

Bologna!!! They can't stop straw purchases unless they have proof. There was no way they could have prevented those purchases. And if they did, conservatives would have had a panic attack. Just another fake outrage by conservatives.

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KriszDev
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August 02, 2015, 06:05:20 PM
 #30

Krisz, I don't waste time arguing right-wing brain farts about Obama.
You should know that by now.

Yes you do, you just can't answer my question, and it pisses you off when I destroy your silly comments.

Hey, how about that Jared Loughner, being a left wing loon must not sit well with your right wing BS comments
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August 02, 2015, 06:05:54 PM
 #31


Bologna!!! They can't stop straw purchases unless they have proof. There was no way they could have prevented those purchases. And if they did, conservatives would have had a panic attack. Just another fake outrage by conservatives.

Oh really, you said they were purchased legally, which the wiki proves that comment was bull(*)(*)(*)(*)

You are wrong, straw purchases go unpunished, and you know it
Blackeye433
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August 02, 2015, 06:07:20 PM
 #32


So what? The racist right-winger who massacred a church-full of blacks was allowed to buy a gun because of the insane laws foisted on us by the nra and its lapdogs.

Actually, he would not have been able to buy that gun if the background check had actually worked. Obviously, the only way to fix the problem of the background check not working is to pass more laws requiring background checks.

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August 02, 2015, 09:31:08 PM
 #33



Total bull(*)(*)(*)(*), try again: Straw purchases are illegal, end of story, and your little dance ain't gonna work

the ATF "purposely allowed licensed firearms dealers to sell weapons to illegal straw buyers, hoping to track the guns to Mexican drug cartel leaders and arrest them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

Bologna!!! They can't stop straw purchases unless they have proof. There was no way they could have prevented those purchases. And if they did, conservatives would have had a panic attack. Just another fake outrage by conservatives.

This is bullshit, and not how the law works. Law enforcement KNEW these people were criminals but asked the dealers to supply the weapons anyway so they could try to track them (and fail every time because of lack of coordination and enforcement from Mexico).



Your little pathetic diversion from the fact that Obama and Holder failed stupid program just shows what a kool aid drinker you are and what inept pathetic lying leadership you elected. I guess it's natural for someone like you to try and divert this thread, you must be embarrassed

Au contraire, mon ami, the pathetic little distraction comes from right-wingers bleating chicken little hysterics when a Mexican kills someone with a gun while tripping over themselves to make excuses when domestic right-wing extremists massacre innocent people with guns that they obtained legally because of the insane gun laws that the nra and its idiot lapdogs promote.
You people are so fond of repeating the nra mantra that guns don't kill, people do. Well, billy, why are you blaming the gun now?
Nobody is buying the hypocrisy that right-wingers are peddling.

Not everyone that is against gun control is a "right winger". The right to defend ones self is not exclusive to your political bend. The guns were NOT obtained legally, because the retailers did their due diligence and reported these buyers and would have otherwise denied the sales BASED ON THEIR OWN PERSONAL LIABILITY, but the ATF asked them to go thru with the sales. You are acting as if this is proof the laws are flawed when the ATF PURPOSELY CIRCUMVENTED THE LAW in order to allow these purchases to happen, then failed to monitor the weapons repeatedly, in the long run making this operation all risk with no benefit. To me it sounds like you are too busy jerking yourself off over politics to ever look at any of the facts of these circumstances critically.

Who didn't call him a loon?

Exactly. Thanks for playing.
Right-wingers trip over themselves trying to paint all the racist mass murderers as loons and quickly dismiss them instead of facing the problem of our gun laws allowing nutters to buy weapons, and dealing with the racist, intolerant, violent culture that the right promotes that enables and inspires these so-called loons.
Meanwhile any Mexican or Muslim that commits a crime is hysterically heralded as irrefutable evidence of the utter depravity of their entire culture and the need to deal with all of them very harshly.
The hypocrisy from the right is nauseating.

Nuts will be nuts no matter what weapon they get a hold of. Furthermore more laws doesn't magically make the illegal weapons go away. Nothing is stopping that same nut from burning down buildings, using cars as weapons, knives, explosives, all things readily available in most parts of the world. The problem is the enormous amount of insane people the US contains, not the guns. Gun control is treating the symptom, not the cause, and the cause is the complete lack of mental health care within the US, along with systematic over-prescription of psychiatric medications to millions of people.

Do you realize about 9 out of 10 of these shooters were on some kind of psychiatric drug? Some of these drugs designed for depression even warn of side effects of suicidal tendencies, yet no one is even discussing this! Pull your head out of your politicized ass for a moment and stop being a useful idiot for these political parties. None of them have your best interest in mind, NONE OF THEM. The unfortunate reality of abandoning the binary bullshit system is you now have to think for YOURSELF.



"What is "gunwalking"?

"A primer on the "Fast and Furious" scandal

Gunwalking" is law enforcement vernacular for the concept of allowing criminal suspects to "walk" off with guns, without police interdicting or tracking them. It's widely considered taboo, since "walked" guns may be used in violent crimes, including murders.

What is "Project Gunrunner"?

"Project Gunrunner" is a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) national initiative under the Justice Department started in 2006 aimed at reducing US-Mexico cross-border drug and gun trafficking and violence.

What is "Fast and Furious"?

"Fast and Furious" is the name ATF assigned to a group of Phoenix, Arizona-area gun trafficking cases under Project Gunrunner that began in fall of 2009. It's the largest of several known operations in which ATF employed gunwalking, involving more than 2,000 weapons, including hundreds of AK-47 type semi-automatic rifles and .50 caliber rifles. According to sources who worked directly on the case, the vast majority of guns were not tracked and Mexico's government was not fully informed of the case. The ATF Special Agent in Charge of the operation was Bill Newell.

Complete coverage of the "Fast and Furious" scandal from CBS News

What is "Wide Receiver"?

"Wide Receiver" is the name ATF assigned to a group of gun trafficking cases investigated out of the Tucson, Arizona office beginning in 2006. Like Fast and Furious, it was supervised by ATF Special Agent in Charge Bill Newell. Sources indicate it involved about 275 "walked" guns. According to sources who worked directly on the case, the vast majority of guns were not tracked and Mexico's government was not fully informed of the case. Apparently worried that the gunwalking tactics could be viewed as inappropriate, federal prosecutors in Arizona abandoned the case. Then, in fall of 2009, Justice Department officials decided to go ahead and prosecute the case.

How did Fast and Furious start?

A number of Federal Firearms Licensed (FFL) gun dealers in the Phoenix area routinely contacted ATF when they noticed suspicious customers attempting purchases; for example, someone ordering large numbers of AK-47 variant rifles and other so-called "weapons of choice" used by the Mexican drug cartels, and paying with large sums of cash brought in a paper bag. But starting in fall 2009, instead of stopping the transactions or questioning the customers, ATF often encouraged select gun dealers to go ahead and complete suspicious sales. ATF further asked the gun dealers to continue to cooperate by selling to the suspicious customers repeatedly, and providing ATF with names and weapons' serial numbers. Several gun dealers expressed concerns to ATF: they worried if they cooperated in selling guns to suspected criminals, they would later be unfairly blamed or even prosecuted, and that some of the weapons might be used one day to murder federal agents.

What was the motivation for ATF to employ such a controversial tactic?

Many U.S.-sold guns were being trafficked to Mexico and used in drug cartel violence. Though the exact percentage and number is the subject of debate, ATF was tasked with trying to stop the flow of guns. A year after Fast and Furious began, ATF remained under pressure from a Nov. 2011 Inspector General review (PDF) of Project Gunrunner that criticized ATF's focus on low level gun dealers and straw purchasers "rather than on higher-level traffickers, smugglers, and the ultimate recipients of the trafficked guns."

ATF officials who supported "gunwalking" say they thought that by seeing where the guns later "ended up" in Mexico would help them take down a cartel big fish."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-primer-on-the-fast-and-furious-scandal/

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August 02, 2015, 09:37:19 PM
 #34

.....
So what? The racist right-winger who massacred a church-full of blacks was allowed to buy a gun because of the insane laws foisted on us by the nra and its lapdogs. The right-wing nutter, Houser, had an arsenal of weapons he was able to buy under our current gun laws. The list goes on and on.
People who support the insanity of our current gun laws are morally responsible for all of the gun killings that are perpetrated by these extremists.

You mean the law signed and advocated by Bill Clinton?
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August 23, 2015, 12:37:28 PM
 #35

If a gun store owner knowingly sells a firearm to a person who's intent is to use it in a criminal act then that gun store owner is liable and must suffer the penalty.

Obama and Holder knowing sold firearms to persons who's intent was to use them in criminal acts.

Arrest Obama.

Arrest Holder.

Do it now.

I really doubt that obama knew about that. As if this Mr. Holder would have needed the ok of obama for doing that. The plan was way too stupid as if it is imaginable that obama would not have seen the risks of it.

So i really think that obama did not know about that. Or is there proof that he know and agreed? I doubt that.

If not then this is only a conspiracy theory again. At least that obama agreed.
Linuld
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August 23, 2015, 12:41:00 PM
 #36

So what? The racist right-winger who massacred a church-full of blacks was allowed to buy a gun because of the insane laws foisted on us by the nra and its lapdogs. The right-wing nutter, Houser, had an arsenal of weapons he was able to buy under our current gun laws. The list goes on and on.
People who support the insanity of our current gun laws are morally responsible for all of the gun killings that are perpetrated by these extremists.

If someone wanted to kill a church full of black people that badly, they would just decided to blow it up or gone on a murder spree with a knife, or throwing stars, etc if they couldn't purchase a gun. Having tougher gun laws will not prevent deaths from crazy people. Period.

The difference is that you can kill way more and way faster with a firegun. Throwing stars would be deadly very seldom and you need to be very skilled with a knive to kill many.

I personally think tougher gunlaws will prevent a lot of these invidents... but only not all. See germany. We have no allowed guns so far that everyone can buy but we have sports with guns. The result is that there are many weapons in private homes. And these weapons were used, often enough in school killings too. Often childs of parents doing it for sport.
Linuld
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August 23, 2015, 12:43:14 PM
 #37

You guys literally know nothing about Fast and Furious. The Government did not force gun shops to sell guns to people. They tracked the guns that were legally bought by individuals they thought were gun runners in order to get evidence to arrest them or to find out how they are distributing these guns. Arizona law prevented the government from stopping these purchases. They were all legal purchases. If you really are a realistic person, Fast & Furious makes gun protection laws look horrible. The government can't stop gun runners from purchasing as many guns as they want in order to distribute to drug cartels. They have to prove that they are distributing these guns to the cartels.

Thanks for clarification. To believe that obama spread weapons in order to disallow spread weapons is way too stupid to believe.

So obamas fiends want to read it so that he spread the weapons while in fact they only tried to track legal weapons they could not confiscate.

Well, that is a huge difference.
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