[SALES OPEN] [SIDEHACK STICK] Official sales thread for Europe

[MacEntyre]

First of all, I am not a Newbie in this forum even if I do only have a few posts. As long as PMs do not count I probably will never get another status.

I made an arrangement with sidehack from GekkoScience to license his Compac design for manufacturing and sales in Europe.

Everything is ordered or in production so it's time to make an official annoucement for sidehack's 8-16GH BM1384 USB Stick Miner sales in Europe.

This is the topic I am talking about:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=995675.0

Officially tested and approved by some serious forum members:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1086011.msg11817067#msg11817067

I'll offer the GekkoScience BM1384 USB stick miner first via https://www.bitshopper.de and later proably as well on Amazon Europe (DE, UK, FR, ES, IT).

What's the difference to GekkoScience's original stick:

• it's manufactured in Europe (incl. PCB) and comes completely in black with a white custom labeling to cover EU legal requisites (CE & WEEE)
• it comes with a different heat sink with a smaller footprint but providing a very low thermal resistance from 17.8 °C/W (natural convection) up to 3.5 °C/W (at an airflow velocity of 4 m/s). The same type which successfully transferred heat from the six chip NanoFury NF6.

The stick will be sold for 49,95 EUR including shipping to the following countries:

• Austria
• Belgium
• Bulgaria
• Cyprus
• Czech Republic
• Germany
• Denmark
• Estland
• Finnland
• France
• Greece
• Hungaria
• Ireland
• Italy
• Latvia
• Lithuania
• Luxemburg
• Malta
• Netherlands
• Poland
• Portugal
• Romania
• Sweden
• Slovakia
• Slovenia
• Spain
• United Kingdom

To qualify for free shipping, use the following coupon when ordering via the webshop: bitxo-compac-free-shipping-2015

Buyers in Switzerland and Liechtenstein don't have to pay VAT but have to cover shipping cost and customs clearing, which is 15,79 EUR. The shipping procedure outside the EU is "delivered duty unpaid" (DDU). This means that the carrier will charge customs duties, VAT and customs clearance fees directly when they deliver the parcel.

Sales will start around August 25, 2015 if everything will arrive in time. Product will be unlocked in the shop when everything will be ready. I don't take preorders or advance payment. I'll finance everything in advance by myself.

Shipping will be performed by Amazon as fulfilment provider - don't wonder if you receive a parcel from Amazon even if ordered via webshop.

So far for the moment - feel free to PM me if you have further questions.

[MacEntyre]

Sales is finally open now.

After a delay of almost two months I have the first batch available. Sales is open via https://www.bitshopper.de and in a few days as well via Amazon Europe (DE, UK, FR, ES, IT).

The price via Amazon will be slightly higher compared to the one in our webshop in order to cover Amazon's commission.

To qualify for free shipping, use the following coupon when ordering via the webshop: bitxo-compac-free-shipping-2015

[philipma1957]

nice good luck.

https://www.bitshopper.de/shop/usb-miner-bitcoin-en/gekkoscience-compac/

will it have more photos with heat sink etc?

[MacEntyre]

nice good luck.

https://www.bitshopper.de/shop/usb-miner-bitcoin-en/gekkoscience-compac/

will it have more photos with heat sink etc?

Thanks. As soon as the heat sinks will arrive, I'll provide some updated imagery. Shipment of the heat sinks is expected around August 7.

[philipma1957]

nice good luck.

https://www.bitshopper.de/shop/usb-miner-bitcoin-en/gekkoscience-compac/

will it have more photos with heat sink etc?

Thanks. As soon as the heat sinks will arrive, I'll provide some updated imagery. Shipment of the heat sinks is expected around August 7.

looking forward to it.  I had I lot of the ice fury sticks I always liked the look of them.

[Flep182]

Just wanted to know what makes up for the difference in price between the US made ones and these. I assume it's not only the heatsink Probably the US ones are without VAT? So that would bring it down to 40 each?

I'm interested in a few to play with but theres a bit of a gap between both sides of the lake

[MacEntyre]

Just wanted to know what makes up for the difference in price between the US made ones and these. I assume it's not only the heatsink Probably the US ones are without VAT? So that would bring it down to 40 each?

I'm interested in a few to play with but theres a bit of a gap between both sides of the lake

I expected exactly this question. I even thought about adding a statement in the original post. Then I decided to start a stopwatch and see how long it takes until the question comes.
The main reasons for the price difference are:

• VAT of 19%
• Parts cost: (I didn't replace quality parts from sidehack's parts list with cheaper equivalents. Quality first. Just for example: only parts cost (without ASICs, PCB, Screws and Heat sink) are 10 EUR (+ VAT). For small lots like the 800 one doesn't get much discount. Significant discounts start from quantities > 3000.
• Manufacturing in EU: The biggest advantage of GekkoScience is: they manufacture by themselves. This is indeed the biggest cost factor, programming, stencils, pick & place, setup costs. Btw. I refuse to order PCB and assembly in China. Why? Quality first and I strongly believe that we have enough problems in EU which we don't solve if we order cheap and even cheaper crap in China. Stencils are from France, Heat sinks from a reseller in Italy (originally from Japan), as well as PP boxes.
• Including shipping: Shipping of 1-3 pcs. is ~ 9,79 EUR to most EU countries. Pick and place fee + volume charge + country charge.

The price is fair, I simply can't keep pace with GekkoScience's in-house production (and the VAT factor, of course).

I bet that you don't get it in hand for 49,95 EUR if you import it by yourself from the US: International shipping charge, customs, customs declaration service of the shipper, import sales tax and all the paperwork and mess around. I did it some times in the past and it was always a mess and made a 30$ product a 70 EUR experience in hand (and I had a much better dollar rate then).

If you think you can do it cheaper (under the same conditions) - do it and then come back and we discuss it.
If you think that you can import it for less that 49,95 - do it! I won't nail sidehack on a cross if he'll ship some of the original GekkoScience batch ones to customer in EU.

[Flep182]

Just wanted to know what makes up for the difference in price between the US made ones and these. I assume it's not only the heatsink Probably the US ones are without VAT? So that would bring it down to 40 each?

I'm interested in a few to play with but theres a bit of a gap between both sides of the lake

I expected exactly this question. I even thought about adding a statement in the original post. Then I decided to start a stopwatch and see how long it takes until the question comes.
The main reasons for the price difference are:

• VAT of 19%
• Parts cost: (I didn't replace quality parts from sidehack's parts list with cheaper equivalents. Quality first. Just for example: only parts cost (without ASICs, PCB, Screws and Heat sink) are 10 EUR (+ VAT). For small lots like the 800 one doesn't get much discount. Significant discounts start from quantities > 3000.
• Manufacturing in EU: The biggest advantage of GekkoScience is: they manufacture by themselves. This is indeed the biggest cost factor, programming, stencils, pick & place, setup costs. Btw. I refuse to order PCB and assembly in China. Why? Quality first and I strongly believe that we have enough problems in EU which we don't solve if we order cheap and even cheaper crap in China. Stencils are from France, Heat sinks from a reseller in Italy (originally from Japan), as well as PP boxes.
• Including shipping: Shipping of 1-3 pcs. is ~ 9,79 EUR to most EU countries. Pick and place fee + volume charge + country charge.

The price is fair, I simply can't keep pace with GekkoScience's in-house production (and the VAT factor, of course).

I bet that you don't get it in hand for 49,95 EUR if you import it by yourself from the US: International shipping charge, customs, customs declaration service of the shipper, import sales tax and all the paperwork and mess around. I did it some times in the past and it was always a mess and made a 30$ product a 70 EUR experience in hand (and I had a much better dollar rate then).

If you think you can do it cheaper (under the same conditions) - do it and then come back and we discuss it.
If you think that you can import it for less that 49,95 - do it! I won't nail sidehack on a cross if he'll ship some of the original GekkoScience batch ones to customer in EU.

VAT is a bitch. Especially with the new rules that ask to apply different rates depending on the destination country and stuff. Would probably order a few through employer so that would skip the VAT Would have to do a thorough calculation to know whether I could fix it for under 49,95, unfortunately I don't have time for that tonight

Cost of production is clear now. Wouldn't it be cheaper then to buy complete units (maybe without the heatsink for weight reasons plus importing is cheaper as it's not a finished product)  from Gekkoscience and add the last bits locally? Or do they have a hard limit in production capacity?
I mean, you're not trying to be the cheapest in the market since that will always be the big players with their 14 trillion Gh/s machines with the latest 0,14 nm chips, but getting price down a bit would be one of my concerns, from a commercial point

[philipma1957]

Just wanted to know what makes up for the difference in price between the US made ones and these. I assume it's not only the heatsink Probably the US ones are without VAT? So that would bring it down to 40 each?

I'm interested in a few to play with but theres a bit of a gap between both sides of the lake

I expected exactly this question. I even thought about adding a statement in the original post. Then I decided to start a stopwatch and see how long it takes until the question comes.
The main reasons for the price difference are:

• VAT of 19%
• Parts cost: (I didn't replace quality parts from sidehack's parts list with cheaper equivalents. Quality first. Just for example: only parts cost (without ASICs, PCB, Screws and Heat sink) are 10 EUR (+ VAT). For small lots like the 800 one doesn't get much discount. Significant discounts start from quantities > 3000.
• Manufacturing in EU: The biggest advantage of GekkoScience is: they manufacture by themselves. This is indeed the biggest cost factor, programming, stencils, pick & place, setup costs. Btw. I refuse to order PCB and assembly in China. Why? Quality first and I strongly believe that we have enough problems in EU which we don't solve if we order cheap and even cheaper crap in China. Stencils are from France, Heat sinks from a reseller in Italy (originally from Japan), as well as PP boxes.
• Including shipping: Shipping of 1-3 pcs. is ~ 9,79 EUR to most EU countries. Pick and place fee + volume charge + country charge.

The price is fair, I simply can't keep pace with GekkoScience's in-house production (and the VAT factor, of course).

I bet that you don't get it in hand for 49,95 EUR if you import it by yourself from the US: International shipping charge, customs, customs declaration service of the shipper, import sales tax and all the paperwork and mess around. I did it some times in the past and it was always a mess and made a 30$ product a 70 EUR experience in hand (and I had a much better dollar rate then).

If you think you can do it cheaper (under the same conditions) - do it and then come back and we discuss it.
If you think that you can import it for less that 49,95 - do it! I won't nail sidehack on a cross if he'll ship some of the original GekkoScience batch ones to customer in EU.

I did some quick numbers.  I got 20 for 500 usd .  So that is 25 usd a stick.

   So I put 3 in a us post office  flat rate box 75 usd and 26 usd to ship = 101 usd= breakeven for me to sell at 101 for 3

your price would be 150 euro from 'Mac'

 So if a UK guy buys from me and wants 3 sticks  I need to lie about the value.  If I tell the truth the vat and the import brings it close to  145-165 usd for 3 sticks

165 usd = 150 euro  

     So to do this from the usa  3 sticks for 101   and I lie for you then you save a few bucks.  

 And I sold them at cost 101 I make no money plus I lied on the forms.


Euro's vat and import duties are really tough on selling.

[sidehack]

If MacEntyre wasn't manufacturing PCBs and all parts placement in Europe but sending it to China instead, I would not have licensed the design to him.

I'll sell to folks in Europe (now with his blessing) but I will not lie on the customs forms.

The substantial price difference attributed to our in-house assembly explains why we're broke all the time. Low margins. I didn't realize his cost would be that much different. It's pretty surprising.

[philipma1957]

If MacEntyre wasn't manufacturing PCBs and all parts placement in Europe but sending it to China instead, I would not have licensed the design to him.

I'll sell to folks in Europe (now with his blessing) but I will not lie on the customs forms.

The substantial price difference attributed to our in-house assembly explains why we're broke all the time. Low margins. I didn't realize his cost would be that much different. It's pretty surprising.

  I used to tear down new mac minis back in 2006-2009 the white plastic top models.  I sold a lot to Europe and to Israel  over time shipping overseas became more difficult and costly. UK rules got worse US post office rules got worse and basically I ended my mac mini upgrade business first over seas and now in the usa.  Unfortunately Europeans pay a lot for vat and import. 

[sidehack]

I'm probably one of the few people that wishes the US had more import taxes. As inconvenient as it would be, that would help shift supply toward domestic production and ease government reliance on income taxes for funding. Sounds like a win for wage-earners to me. And anything to help stem the 5/1 trade defecit we have with China is okay with me.

[Flep182]

Just wanted to know what makes up for the difference in price between the US made ones and these. I assume it's not only the heatsink Probably the US ones are without VAT? So that would bring it down to 40 each?

I'm interested in a few to play with but theres a bit of a gap between both sides of the lake

I expected exactly this question. I even thought about adding a statement in the original post. Then I decided to start a stopwatch and see how long it takes until the question comes.
The main reasons for the price difference are:

• VAT of 19%
• Parts cost: (I didn't replace quality parts from sidehack's parts list with cheaper equivalents. Quality first. Just for example: only parts cost (without ASICs, PCB, Screws and Heat sink) are 10 EUR (+ VAT). For small lots like the 800 one doesn't get much discount. Significant discounts start from quantities > 3000.
• Manufacturing in EU: The biggest advantage of GekkoScience is: they manufacture by themselves. This is indeed the biggest cost factor, programming, stencils, pick & place, setup costs. Btw. I refuse to order PCB and assembly in China. Why? Quality first and I strongly believe that we have enough problems in EU which we don't solve if we order cheap and even cheaper crap in China. Stencils are from France, Heat sinks from a reseller in Italy (originally from Japan), as well as PP boxes.
• Including shipping: Shipping of 1-3 pcs. is ~ 9,79 EUR to most EU countries. Pick and place fee + volume charge + country charge.

The price is fair, I simply can't keep pace with GekkoScience's in-house production (and the VAT factor, of course).

I bet that you don't get it in hand for 49,95 EUR if you import it by yourself from the US: International shipping charge, customs, customs declaration service of the shipper, import sales tax and all the paperwork and mess around. I did it some times in the past and it was always a mess and made a 30$ product a 70 EUR experience in hand (and I had a much better dollar rate then).

If you think you can do it cheaper (under the same conditions) - do it and then come back and we discuss it.
If you think that you can import it for less that 49,95 - do it! I won't nail sidehack on a cross if he'll ship some of the original GekkoScience batch ones to customer in EU.

I did some quick numbers.  I got 20 for 500 usd .  So that is 25 usd a stick.

   So I put 3 in a us post office  flat rate box 75 usd and 26 usd to ship = 101 usd= breakeven for me to sell at 101 for 3

your price would be 150 euro from 'Mac'

 So if a UK guy buys from me and wants 3 sticks  I need to lie about the value.  If I tell the truth the vat and the import brings it close to  145-165 usd for 3 sticks

165 usd = 150 euro  

     So to do this from the usa  3 sticks for 101   and I lie for you then you save a few bucks.  

 And I sold them at cost 101 I make no money plus I lied on the forms.


Euro's vat and import duties are really tough on selling.

Just checked the formal rules, up until 150 euro it's only VAT, no import. But if it would be over 150 you still wouldn't have to pay since it will probably be classified as computer parts which don't have import duties on them.

So 75 USD + 20something% VAT + shipping. 90 USD + 26 USD shipping, 116 USD which adds up to 106ish euro.

[philipma1957]

Just wanted to know what makes up for the difference in price between the US made ones and these. I assume it's not only the heatsink Probably the US ones are without VAT? So that would bring it down to 40 each?

I'm interested in a few to play with but theres a bit of a gap between both sides of the lake

I expected exactly this question. I even thought about adding a statement in the original post. Then I decided to start a stopwatch and see how long it takes until the question comes.
The main reasons for the price difference are:

• VAT of 19%
• Parts cost: (I didn't replace quality parts from sidehack's parts list with cheaper equivalents. Quality first. Just for example: only parts cost (without ASICs, PCB, Screws and Heat sink) are 10 EUR (+ VAT). For small lots like the 800 one doesn't get much discount. Significant discounts start from quantities > 3000.
• Manufacturing in EU: The biggest advantage of GekkoScience is: they manufacture by themselves. This is indeed the biggest cost factor, programming, stencils, pick & place, setup costs. Btw. I refuse to order PCB and assembly in China. Why? Quality first and I strongly believe that we have enough problems in EU which we don't solve if we order cheap and even cheaper crap in China. Stencils are from France, Heat sinks from a reseller in Italy (originally from Japan), as well as PP boxes.
• Including shipping: Shipping of 1-3 pcs. is ~ 9,79 EUR to most EU countries. Pick and place fee + volume charge + country charge.

The price is fair, I simply can't keep pace with GekkoScience's in-house production (and the VAT factor, of course).

I bet that you don't get it in hand for 49,95 EUR if you import it by yourself from the US: International shipping charge, customs, customs declaration service of the shipper, import sales tax and all the paperwork and mess around. I did it some times in the past and it was always a mess and made a 30$ product a 70 EUR experience in hand (and I had a much better dollar rate then).

If you think you can do it cheaper (under the same conditions) - do it and then come back and we discuss it.
If you think that you can import it for less that 49,95 - do it! I won't nail sidehack on a cross if he'll ship some of the original GekkoScience batch ones to customer in EU.

I did some quick numbers.  I got 20 for 500 usd .  So that is 25 usd a stick.

   So I put 3 in a us post office  flat rate box 75 usd and 26 usd to ship = 101 usd= breakeven for me to sell at 101 for 3

your price would be 150 euro from 'Mac'

 So if a UK guy buys from me and wants 3 sticks  I need to lie about the value.  If I tell the truth the vat and the import brings it close to  145-165 usd for 3 sticks

165 usd = 150 euro  

     So to do this from the usa  3 sticks for 101   and I lie for you then you save a few bucks.  

 And I sold them at cost 101 I make no money plus I lied on the forms.


Euro's vat and import duties are really tough on selling.

Just checked the formal rules, up until 150 euro it's only VAT, no import. But if it would be over 150 you still wouldn't have to pay since it will probably be classified as computer parts which don't have import duties on them.

So 75 USD + 20something% VAT + shipping. 90 USD + 26 USD shipping, 116 USD which adds up to 106ish euro.

 Not to argue as I have sold a lot of 4gb ram sticks to about 35 or 40 overseas buyers.  Parts get import duties in many countries. Not sure they should be called a part.

I do not what country you are in , but it may be a 3 or 4 stick order from a usa person could be better then a 3 or 4 stick order from Mac.  I can tell you I no longer sell to europe due to the rule changes since the turn of the century.

    I used to be able to send a small flat rate usa to uk with tracking and insurance up to 400 usd for 12.95 .   Now it is 26usd with both  tracking and insurance  limited.


   I think maybe you could do 4 sticks safely in the US PS flat rate box  maybe  pay no import duty and you save a few bucks.  No usa reseller will do it since all these numbers I gave are based on no

markup.
So the only person that could do it for you in the USA would be sidehack.

Once you go over 4 sticks I think you need a medium flat rate and  you pay import duties.  Also I am not sure if sidehack's sticks will have  the ce tag  IIRC which allows an electronic device to be shipped to many european nations.  Not sure it is needed since it plugs into a usb hub.

All in all if I were a european I would most likely buy 'local'

[J4bberwock]

Just wanted to know what makes up for the difference in price between the US made ones and these. I assume it's not only the heatsink Probably the US ones are without VAT? So that would bring it down to 40 each?

I'm interested in a few to play with but theres a bit of a gap between both sides of the lake

I expected exactly this question. I even thought about adding a statement in the original post. Then I decided to start a stopwatch and see how long it takes until the question comes.
The main reasons for the price difference are:

• VAT of 19%
• Parts cost: (I didn't replace quality parts from sidehack's parts list with cheaper equivalents. Quality first. Just for example: only parts cost (without ASICs, PCB, Screws and Heat sink) are 10 EUR (+ VAT). For small lots like the 800 one doesn't get much discount. Significant discounts start from quantities > 3000.
• Manufacturing in EU: The biggest advantage of GekkoScience is: they manufacture by themselves. This is indeed the biggest cost factor, programming, stencils, pick & place, setup costs. Btw. I refuse to order PCB and assembly in China. Why? Quality first and I strongly believe that we have enough problems in EU which we don't solve if we order cheap and even cheaper crap in China. Stencils are from France, Heat sinks from a reseller in Italy (originally from Japan), as well as PP boxes.
• Including shipping: Shipping of 1-3 pcs. is ~ 9,79 EUR to most EU countries. Pick and place fee + volume charge + country charge.

The price is fair, I simply can't keep pace with GekkoScience's in-house production (and the VAT factor, of course).

I bet that you don't get it in hand for 49,95 EUR if you import it by yourself from the US: International shipping charge, customs, customs declaration service of the shipper, import sales tax and all the paperwork and mess around. I did it some times in the past and it was always a mess and made a 30$ product a 70 EUR experience in hand (and I had a much better dollar rate then).

If you think you can do it cheaper (under the same conditions) - do it and then come back and we discuss it.
If you think that you can import it for less that 49,95 - do it! I won't nail sidehack on a cross if he'll ship some of the original GekkoScience batch ones to customer in EU.

I did some quick numbers.  I got 20 for 500 usd .  So that is 25 usd a stick.

   So I put 3 in a us post office  flat rate box 75 usd and 26 usd to ship = 101 usd= breakeven for me to sell at 101 for 3

your price would be 150 euro from 'Mac'

 So if a UK guy buys from me and wants 3 sticks  I need to lie about the value.  If I tell the truth the vat and the import brings it close to  145-165 usd for 3 sticks

165 usd = 150 euro  

     So to do this from the usa  3 sticks for 101   and I lie for you then you save a few bucks.  

 And I sold them at cost 101 I make no money plus I lied on the forms.


Euro's vat and import duties are really tough on selling.

Just checked the formal rules, up until 150 euro it's only VAT, no import. But if it would be over 150 you still wouldn't have to pay since it will probably be classified as computer parts which don't have import duties on them.

So 75 USD + 20something% VAT + shipping. 90 USD + 26 USD shipping, 116 USD which adds up to 106ish euro.

You need to add shipping cost before VAT is calculated. And if the shipping cost is not written on the invoice, they are using arbitrary high shipping rates to calculate the total.
That's how you end up paying 15-18€ for the paperwork plus 10€ VAT on an item with 30€ declared value and free shipping...

But sidehack is right on one thing, for small businesses, those high import taxes and VAT are making you think about making things locally.
When possible, it's better to pay someone to do the job here than to pay 20% cheaper from China and add 20% VAT / taxes.

Unfortunately, it doesn't help keeping the work local for large companies that have a lot of taxes exemptions.

[Flep182]

Oh, is it possible to order a stick without VAT? Of course with a valid EU VAT number of course, but is that possible?

[MacEntyre]

Oh, is it possible to order a stick without VAT? Of course with a valid EU VAT number of course, but is that possible?

If you have a valid, registered EU VAT number, this will be possible. You can enter your VAT number during checkout.

[MacEntyre]

Today the heat sinks arrived. The blue pad is a custom 3M adhesive tape (electrically non-conductive) which covers the BM1384 surface and surrounding parts.







And this is how the EU version of the miner will look like:

[TheRealSteve]

Are your boxes tall enough to fit like that?  I suspect I won't be able to use the boxes I'm using for the U.S. versions, but then you said you do intend to include boxes anyway, so I can just skip all that for yours

[MacEntyre]

Are your boxes tall enough to fit like that?  I suspect I won't be able to use the boxes I'm using for the U.S. versions, but then you said you do intend to include boxes anyway, so I can just skip all that for yours

I have already 800 sth. of these boxes in hand, waiting for the miners. 
The total height including screws and fins is 18mm and the box is good for ~19mm.
This box wouldn't fit the U.S. version anyways cause the original GekkoScience miner including their heat sink is significantly longer.